mysteryman wrote:Debra Law said
Quote:We demand that the enemy comply with the Geneva Convention with respect to treatment of our captured soldiers--and at the same time--we claim the Geneva Convention does NOT apply to our treatment of people we take captive
.
Actually,if you take the time to actually READ the Geneva Convention,you will see that insurgents,guerilla's,and "freedom fighters" are NOT protected by the GC.
The GC is quite specific about who is protected and who is not protecte4d by it.
The insurgents or guerilla's are NOT covered.
Mysteryman:
You are confused. It appears that you ought to read the Third and Fourth Geneva Conventions to understand the context and application to treatment of detainees.
The Third Geneva Convention (GCIII) concerns the treatment of POWs; the Fourth Geneva Convention (GCIV) concerns the treatment of all others.
Even if you deny POW status to insurgents or guerillas, they are still human beings entitled to humane conditions of detention or internment. People have to fall into one category or another--military or civilian. If GCIII doesn't apply, then CGIV does.
See text of CGIV:
http://wikisource.org/wiki/Fourth_Geneva_Convention
Article 2
In addition to the provisions which shall be implemented in peace-time, the present Convention shall apply to all cases of declared war or of any other armed conflict which may arise between two or more of the High Contracting Parties, even if the state of war is not recognized by one of them.
The Convention shall also apply to all cases of partial or total occupation of the territory of a High Contracting Party, even if the said occupation meets with no armed resistance.
* * *
[NOTE: Our armed forces are occupying parts of both Afghanistan and Iraq. Therefore, the Convention applies.]
Article 4
Persons protected by the Convention are those who, at a given moment and in any manner whatsoever, find themselves, in case of a conflict or occupation, in the hands of a Party to the conflict or Occupying Power of which they are not nationals.
Nationals of a State which is not bound by the Convention are not protected by it. Nationals of a neutral State who find themselves in the territory of a belligerent State, and nationals of a co-belligerent State, shall not be regarded as protected persons while the State of which they are nationals has normal diplomatic representation in the State in whose hands they are.
[NOTE: Both Afghanistan and Iraq are bound by the Convention. Accordingly, their nationals are protected by the Convention. It makes no difference if the hostile detainee is a member of the al Qaeda or an Iraqi resistance fighter--we look to their nationality, not to their group memberships to determine if they are entitled to protected person status under Article 4. But see Article 13 which extends protection to the ENTIRE POPULATIONS of the countries in conflict. Afghani and Iraqi nationals and all persons populating the countries of Afghanistan and Iraq are entitled to protected person status.]
The provisions of Part II are, however, wider in application, as defined in Article 13.
* * *
Article 5
Where in the territory of a Party to the conflict, the latter is satisfied that an individual protected person is definitely suspected of or engaged in activities hostile to the security of the State, such individual person shall not be entitled to claim such rights and privileges under the present Convention as would, if exercised in the favour of such individual person, be prejudicial to the security of such State.
Where in occupied territory an individual protected person is detained as a spy or saboteur, or as a person under definite suspicion of activity hostile to the security of the Occupying Power, such person shall, in those cases where absolute military security so requires, be regarded as having forfeited rights of communication under the present Convention.
[NOTE: Non-military detainees do not forfeit their rights under the Convention by engaging in hostile acts. ONLY when ABSOLUTE military security so requires, these hostile detainees forfeit their rights of communication set forth in the Convention--but that one and only forfeiture is limited to communicating.]
In each case, such persons shall nevertheless be treated with humanity and, in case of trial, shall not be deprived of the rights of fair and regular trial prescribed by the present Convention.
They shall also be granted the full rights and privileges of a protected person under the present Convention at the earliest date consistent with the security of the State or Occupying Power, as the case may be.
* * *
Article 13
The provisions of Part II cover the whole of the populations of the countries in conflict, without any adverse distinction based, in particular, on race, nationality, religion or political opinion, and are intended to alleviate the sufferings caused by war.
* * *
Article 27
Protected persons are entitled, in all circumstances, to respect for their persons, their honour, their family rights, their religious convictions and practices, and their manners and customs. They shall at all times be humanely treated, and shall be protected especially against all acts of violence or threats thereof and against insults and public curiosity. . . .
* * *
Article 29
The Party to the conflict in whose hands protected persons may be, is responsible for the treatment accorded to them by its agents, irrespective of any individual responsibility which may be incurred.
[NOTE: The UNITED STATES is responsible for the treatment of detainees.]
* * *
Article 31
No physical or moral coercion shall be exercised against protected persons, in particular to obtain information from them or from third parties.
* * *
Article 32
The High Contracting Parties specifically agree that each of them is prohibited from taking any measure of such a character as to cause the physical suffering or extermination of protected persons in their hands. This prohibition applies not only to murder, torture, corporal punishments, mutilation and medical or scientific experiments not necessitated by the medical treatment of a protected person, but also to any other measures of brutality whether applied by civilian or military agents.
* * *
Article 33
No protected person may be punished for an offence he or she has not personally committed. Collective penalties and likewise all measures of intimidation or of terrorism are prohibited. . . .
* * *
Article 146
The High Contracting Parties undertake to enact any legislation necessary to provide
effective penal sanctions for persons committing, or ordering to be committed, any of the grave breaches of the present Convention defined in the following Article.
Each High Contracting Party shall be under the obligation to search for persons alleged to have committed, or to have ordered to be committed, such grave breaches, and shall bring such persons, regardless of their nationality, before its own courts. It may also, if it prefers, and in accordance with the provisions of its own legislation, hand such persons over for trial to another High Contracting Party concerned, provided such High Contracting Party has made out a prima facie case. . . .
* * *
Article 147
Grave breaches to which the preceding Article relates shall be those involving any of the following acts, if committed against persons or property protected by the present Convention:
wilful killing, torture or inhuman treatment, including biological experiments, wilfully causing great suffering or serious injury to body or health, unlawful deportation or transfer or unlawful confinement of a protected person, compelling a protected person to serve in the forces of a hostile Power, or wilfully depriving a protected person of the rights of fair and regular trial prescribed in the present Convention, taking of hostages and extensive destruction and appropriation of property, not justified by military necessity and carried out unlawfully and wantonly.
* * *
Concerning the inhumane, torturous treatment of two Afghani nationals that resulted in their deaths (murders), has the United States complied with GCIV by providing EFFECTIVE PENAL SANCTIONS: 90 days in jail? 60 days in jail? a reduction in rank?
