what makes a woman?

spendius wrote:

sw-

Thanks for all that.

I have been trying to look at this field the way I think a philosopher would look at it.What does it mean?Was the decision to open the gates to the underground taken by governments or was it forced on them by public opinion.I incline to the former view.It had been underground for a long period and against the law.Now the American films have Library of Congress numbers.Or most of them that see broadcasting light.This is tantamount to government approval.
What has changed?What considerations were taken into account?Is it in the service of changing behaviour patterns and if so what patterns are seen as being useful to engineer.Why are the arguments presented not being heeded in large areas of the world.

Basic simple answer I see..

the introduction of main stream realigion.
Main stream religion tells you that sex is something that should be private, silent and something you ONLY do when in a union. Barriers to sex are religious in nature and those who jump those barriers for personal gain should be shuned by the religious groups and insulted.
Restrain yourself says the religious right, and you will be rewarded. Sex is not for gratification, but procreation they say as well..

On and on the road goes..

The laws then pick up these religious ideas in a hap hazard way of controlling masses of people.
Talk about sex and you have everyones attention.
Put rules on sex and people listen.
Quick massive control? Even if only percieved?
yeah, sex is the place to start..

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In response to the question posed by Spendius--sorry having trouble with copy and paste:

Thanks for your question. The book "Anatomy of Love"--readily available now at most bookstores--does not go in those issues as much as the economic, social, biological, genetic needs and conditions for different strategies of mating habits.

Translating for iknow:

"If I am pregnant and cannot provide for my own needs, who will provide for me and my offspring?"

"If I take her and her children under my wing, how can I be sure her children are also my children?"

"If I mate with him for life and no other, and he dies, who will take care of me when I need help?"

"If his sperm is not viable or is viable but with a genetic mutation, how can I guarrantee that my genetic code will be passed on to future healthy generations?"

The mating strategies compared are 1) serial monogamy--one partner at a time in a series, 2) polygymy--one man, more than one "wife," 3) polyandry--one woman, more than one "husband," 4) group sex.

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Also covered are homosexuality and animals that change sex in a same sex environment.

I'm halfway through the book and so far, there's been no mention of hermaphrodites / androgonous people.

(please pardon any spelling errors on those terms)

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Spendius,
to get back to my ' neat little evasion' concerning German porn....

It is true that in Cambridge I would probably be expected to come up with more than what I delivered. However, I am not in Cambridge, not do I know those expections. I have never studied philosophy formally nor had the priveledge of a secondary formal education. I simply try to respond to the best of my ability.

Saying it scares me bc it is scary/repulsive to me IS an evasion.
It is scary to me when it involves violence and torture. This is what I find repulsive: the mixing of violence and sex. It doesn't matter that it is on a screen to me, because it involves the perpetuation of it. It spreads the ideas/emotions around. Media is part of life, it affects people, and I know there are real people/industry behind the 'making of' such flicks. It also stirs up personal feelings of fear in myself because I do not want to experience such things. I don't want to go any further into that, I simply wanted to make it muddy-clear:)

I do see porn as involving emotion. It stirs up feelings, images, ideas: why else watch it?! Frightening feelings may make some people hard, but not me. I believe in the freedom to do as you wish, but I also believe in keeping my own health/sanity.

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flushd wrote:

Spendius,
to get back to my ' neat little evasion' concerning German porn....

It is true that in Cambridge I would probably be expected to come up with more than what I delivered. However, I am not in Cambridge, not do I know those expections. I have never studied philosophy formally nor had the priveledge of a secondary formal education. I simply try to respond to the best of my ability.

Saying it scares me bc it is scary/repulsive to me IS an evasion.
It is scary to me when it involves violence and torture. This is what I find repulsive: the mixing of violence and sex. It doesn't matter that it is on a screen to me, because it involves the perpetuation of it. It spreads the ideas/emotions around. Media is part of life, it affects people, and I know there are real people/industry behind the 'making of' such flicks. It also stirs up personal feelings of fear in myself because I do not want to experience such things. I don't want to go any further into that, I simply wanted to make it muddy-clear:)

I do see porn as involving emotion. It stirs up feelings, images, ideas: why else watch it?! Frightening feelings may make some people hard, but not me. I believe in the freedom to do as you wish, but I also believe in keeping my own health/sanity.

best post in this thread so far. when people , even some people, start feeling bad about something, you start ostrizicing some of your society. if most of those people are women, you're being sexist. feelings are very important and if you think they might be serious then take them seriously, don't pass it off as nothing important. that way you might harm yourself. just because a large segment of the populatino might like it. a silent majority in this case doesn't work.

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flushd wrote:

Spendius,
to get back to my ' neat little evasion' concerning German porn....

It is true that in Cambridge I would probably be expected to come up with more than what I delivered. However, I am not in Cambridge, not do I know those expections. I have never studied philosophy formally nor had the priveledge of a secondary formal education. I simply try to respond to the best of my ability.

Saying it scares me bc it is scary/repulsive to me IS an evasion.
It is scary to me when it involves violence and torture. This is what I find repulsive: the mixing of violence and sex. It doesn't matter that it is on a screen to me, because it involves the perpetuation of it. It spreads the ideas/emotions around. Media is part of life, it affects people, and I know there are real people/industry behind the 'making of' such flicks. It also stirs up personal feelings of fear in myself because I do not want to experience such things. I don't want to go any further into that, I simply wanted to make it muddy-clear:)

I do see porn as involving emotion. It stirs up feelings, images, ideas: why else watch it?! Frightening feelings may make some people hard, but not me. I believe in the freedom to do as you wish, but I also believe in keeping my own health/sanity.

That is a good point.
And in my mind, violent porn can only lead to real life violence.
This is a blanket statement I know, and doesnt apply to EVERY single human, but is a possibility for most.
I think that when something like violent porn becomes a norm for a person their ability to fantasize about it is -muted-. The excitement is faded and they look for bigger better ways to keep the fantasy feeling going.

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iknow wrote:

flushd wrote:
Spendius,
to get back to my ' neat little evasion' concerning German porn....

It is true that in Cambridge I would probably be expected to come up with more than what I delivered. However, I am not in Cambridge, not do I know those expections. I have never studied philosophy formally nor had the priveledge of a secondary formal education. I simply try to respond to the best of my ability.

Saying it scares me bc it is scary/repulsive to me IS an evasion.
It is scary to me when it involves violence and torture. This is what I find repulsive: the mixing of violence and sex. It doesn't matter that it is on a screen to me, because it involves the perpetuation of it. It spreads the ideas/emotions around. Media is part of life, it affects people, and I know there are real people/industry behind the 'making of' such flicks. It also stirs up personal feelings of fear in myself because I do not want to experience such things. I don't want to go any further into that, I simply wanted to make it muddy-clear:)

I do see porn as involving emotion. It stirs up feelings, images, ideas: why else watch it?! Frightening feelings may make some people hard, but not me. I believe in the freedom to do as you wish, but I also believe in keeping my own health/sanity.

best post in this thread so far. when people , even some people, start feeling bad about something, you start ostrizicing some of your society. if most of those people are women, you're being sexist. feelings are very important and if you think they might be serious then take them seriously, don't pass it off as nothing important. that way you might harm yourself. just because a large segment of the populatino might like it. a silent majority in this case doesn't work.

Flushd may have had a good post but what you posted doesn't have much to do with what flushd said. Please explain what you meant with your post (I am not being mean, I am seriously asking)

0 Replies

Bella Dea wrote:

iknow wrote:
flushd wrote:
Spendius,
to get back to my ' neat little evasion' concerning German porn....

It is true that in Cambridge I would probably be expected to come up with more than what I delivered. However, I am not in Cambridge, not do I know those expections. I have never studied philosophy formally nor had the priveledge of a secondary formal education. I simply try to respond to the best of my ability.

Saying it scares me bc it is scary/repulsive to me IS an evasion.
It is scary to me when it involves violence and torture. This is what I find repulsive: the mixing of violence and sex. It doesn't matter that it is on a screen to me, because it involves the perpetuation of it. It spreads the ideas/emotions around. Media is part of life, it affects people, and I know there are real people/industry behind the 'making of' such flicks. It also stirs up personal feelings of fear in myself because I do not want to experience such things. I don't want to go any further into that, I simply wanted to make it muddy-clear:)

I do see porn as involving emotion. It stirs up feelings, images, ideas: why else watch it?! Frightening feelings may make some people hard, but not me. I believe in the freedom to do as you wish, but I also believe in keeping my own health/sanity.

best post in this thread so far. when people , even some people, start feeling bad about something, you start ostrizicing some of your society. if most of those people are women, you're being sexist. feelings are very important and if you think they might be serious then take them seriously, don't pass it off as nothing important. that way you might harm yourself. just because a large segment of the populatino might like it. a silent majority in this case doesn't work.

Flushd may have had a good post but what you posted doesn't have much to do with what flushd said. Please explain what you meant with your post (I am not being mean, I am seriously asking)

ok. she pointed out things she feels "stirs up personal feelings of fear. " and that she "doens't want to experience such things" thats different then, i don't like that, i'm goign to stay away, its sounds more to me like, thats really bad and a really bad influence on my health and lifestyle to me. imagine all the air waves flooded with the most disgusting porn you can imagine... get the picture?

0 Replies

iknow wrote:

Bella Dea wrote:
iknow wrote:
flushd wrote:
Spendius,
to get back to my ' neat little evasion' concerning German porn....

It is true that in Cambridge I would probably be expected to come up with more than what I delivered. However, I am not in Cambridge, not do I know those expections. I have never studied philosophy formally nor had the priveledge of a secondary formal education. I simply try to respond to the best of my ability.

Saying it scares me bc it is scary/repulsive to me IS an evasion.
It is scary to me when it involves violence and torture. This is what I find repulsive: the mixing of violence and sex. It doesn't matter that it is on a screen to me, because it involves the perpetuation of it. It spreads the ideas/emotions around. Media is part of life, it affects people, and I know there are real people/industry behind the 'making of' such flicks. It also stirs up personal feelings of fear in myself because I do not want to experience such things. I don't want to go any further into that, I simply wanted to make it muddy-clear:)

I do see porn as involving emotion. It stirs up feelings, images, ideas: why else watch it?! Frightening feelings may make some people hard, but not me. I believe in the freedom to do as you wish, but I also believe in keeping my own health/sanity.

best post in this thread so far. when people , even some people, start feeling bad about something, you start ostrizicing some of your society. if most of those people are women, you're being sexist. feelings are very important and if you think they might be serious then take them seriously, don't pass it off as nothing important. that way you might harm yourself. just because a large segment of the populatino might like it. a silent majority in this case doesn't work.

Flushd may have had a good post but what you posted doesn't have much to do with what flushd said. Please explain what you meant with your post (I am not being mean, I am seriously asking)

ok. she pointed out things she feels "stirs up personal feelings of fear. " and that she "doens't want to experience such things" thats different then, i don't like that, i'm goign to stay away, its sounds more to me like, thats really bad and a really bad influence on my health and lifestyle to me. imagine all the air waves flooded with the most disgusting porn you can imagine... get the picture?

Ok, so then you are saying that this porn that disgusts you shouldn't be available to anyone?

0 Replies

Bella Dea wrote:

iknow wrote:
Bella Dea wrote:
iknow wrote:
flushd wrote:
Spendius,
to get back to my ' neat little evasion' concerning German porn....

It is true that in Cambridge I would probably be expected to come up with more than what I delivered. However, I am not in Cambridge, not do I know those expections. I have never studied philosophy formally nor had the priveledge of a secondary formal education. I simply try to respond to the best of my ability.

Saying it scares me bc it is scary/repulsive to me IS an evasion.
It is scary to me when it involves violence and torture. This is what I find repulsive: the mixing of violence and sex. It doesn't matter that it is on a screen to me, because it involves the perpetuation of it. It spreads the ideas/emotions around. Media is part of life, it affects people, and I know there are real people/industry behind the 'making of' such flicks. It also stirs up personal feelings of fear in myself because I do not want to experience such things. I don't want to go any further into that, I simply wanted to make it muddy-clear:)

I do see porn as involving emotion. It stirs up feelings, images, ideas: why else watch it?! Frightening feelings may make some people hard, but not me. I believe in the freedom to do as you wish, but I also believe in keeping my own health/sanity.

best post in this thread so far. when people , even some people, start feeling bad about something, you start ostrizicing some of your society. if most of those people are women, you're being sexist. feelings are very important and if you think they might be serious then take them seriously, don't pass it off as nothing important. that way you might harm yourself. just because a large segment of the populatino might like it. a silent majority in this case doesn't work.

Flushd may have had a good post but what you posted doesn't have much to do with what flushd said. Please explain what you meant with your post (I am not being mean, I am seriously asking)

ok. she pointed out things she feels "stirs up personal feelings of fear. " and that she "doens't want to experience such things" thats different then, i don't like that, i'm goign to stay away, its sounds more to me like, thats really bad and a really bad influence on my health and lifestyle to me. imagine all the air waves flooded with the most disgusting porn you can imagine... get the picture?

Ok, so then you are saying that this porn that disgusts you shouldn't be available to anyone?

no i'm saying if its forced on people it can be emotionally oppresive, really sick porn that is. like brainwashing people by showing them endless really really sick violent scenes would cause an extreme amount of emotional damage.

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the more of this very negative media in society. the more likely say little kids would see it. there more that is out there, the more likely its going to get into the wrong hands.

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Why would that even been an issue here? You don't hear many cases of people being forced to watch "sick violent porn". Unless I am totally missing something.

I don't understand how this is relavant to the converstaion either.

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Bella Dea wrote:

Why would that even been an issue here? You don't hear many cases of people being forced to watch "sick violent porn". Unless I am totally missing something.

I don't understand how this is relavant to the converstaion either.

which conversation?

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im confused as well..

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iknow wrote:

the more of this very negative media in society. the more likely say little kids would see it. there more that is out there, the more likely its going to get into the wrong hands.

I think porn is the least likely corruptor of society.

Drugs, alcohol, bullying, unrealistic beauty standards...those are what are screwing up our kids more than seeing some naked people doing what God intended us to do. Now don't twist this to make it sound like I think a 10 year old should be watching porn but you are making it seem like sex is bad. If people in the US would quit acting like sex is a dirty act, porn wouldn't be so taboo and this conversation wouldn't be happening.

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we're talking about the influence of media on the image of woman. and what her role in society is, and how it affects peoples views on how she should behave appropriatly, also in terms of what honor for a woman should be.

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iknow wrote:

Bella Dea wrote:
Why would that even been an issue here? You don't hear many cases of people being forced to watch "sick violent porn". Unless I am totally missing something.

I don't understand how this is relavant to the converstaion either.

which conversation?

This whole conversation you started. About women and the sex industry. People being forced to watch....that's what I am talking about. How is that relevant? Porn is not intended to be used as a weapon and rarely is, IMO.

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shewolfnm wrote:

im confused as well..

Not you too....

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Bella Dea wrote:

iknow wrote:
the more of this very negative media in society. the more likely say little kids would see it. there more that is out there, the more likely its going to get into the wrong hands.

I think porn is the least likely corruptor of society.

Drugs, alcohol, bullying, unrealistic beauty standards...those are what are screwing up our kids more than seeing some naked people doing what God intended us to do. Now don't twist this to make it sound like I think a 10 year old should be watching porn but you are making it seem like sex is bad. If people in the US would quit acting like sex is a dirty act, porn wouldn't be so taboo and this conversation wouldn't be happening.

there is a difference between sex and popular porn. sex is isn't bad typically, but too much of it is. you can make it bad very easily, and it happens a lot. rape is a problem, a lot of women have been raped, i forgot the percent? porn doens't help the image that its ok for a woman to be in that position, imo.

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iknow wrote:

Bella Dea wrote:
iknow wrote:
the more of this very negative media in society. the more likely say little kids would see it. there more that is out there, the more likely its going to get into the wrong hands.

I think porn is the least likely corruptor of society.

Drugs, alcohol, bullying, unrealistic beauty standards...those are what are screwing up our kids more than seeing some naked people doing what God intended us to do. Now don't twist this to make it sound like I think a 10 year old should be watching porn but you are making it seem like sex is bad. If people in the US would quit acting like sex is a dirty act, porn wouldn't be so taboo and this conversation wouldn't be happening.

there is a difference between sex and popular porn. sex is isn't bad typically, but too much of it is. you can make it bad very easily, and it happens a lot. rape is a problem, a lot of women have been raped, i forgot the percent? porn doens't help the image that its ok for a woman to be in that position, imo.

Oh god don't get me started on why porn does NOT contribute to rape. Rape is not about sex, how many times do I have to say that to people here? Seriously. A very small percentage of rapes are due to sexual desire. And underlying that desire is the real reason the men rape. To get control, retain control or enforce control.

Normal peole don't watch porn and say "Hmmm, it's ok for me to be somewhat forceful with women during sex because that guy gets away with it in my porn". A man who thinks that would have thought that with or without the porn. I am not condoning violent porn. I know it is out there. I am talking about your run of the mill, get it in a video store porn that 99% of the population is viewing.

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what makes a woman?

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