To the Americans on here

@izzythepush,

What would Lash think was a reasonable price to pay for having her name dragged for 10yr, be called a liar, that she had no children, that her murdered child was a movie prop for crisis actors, that he made money on her victimization?

Does she think drug dealers should be allowed to keep their profits of illegal commerce after being arrested and imprisoned?????????

0 Replies

@Lash,

Lash wrote:

InfraBlue wrote:

Speech has it's consequences.

I’ve agreed many times in these pages that the marketplace may exact a price on speech, but a billion dollars? For stupid words?

Again, excessive.

Suuuure! Inciting your audience into a violent frenzy should be protected. Stupid words? His stupid sewerage lies have directly (NOT INDIRECTLY) inspired his audience to send death threats towards these parents. You're implication is that they should shake that off and be grateful that Alex Jone's free speech is 1000% protected while their lives are potentially hanging by a thread.

1 Reply

@tsarstepan,

tsarstepan wrote:

Lash wrote:

InfraBlue wrote:

Speech has it's consequences.

I’ve agreed many times in these pages that the marketplace may exact a price on speech, but a billion dollars? For stupid words?

Again, excessive.

Suuuure! Inciting your audience into a violent frenzy should be protected. Stupid words? His stupid sewerage lies have directly (NOT INDIRECTLY) inspired his audience to send death threats towards these parents. You're implication is that they should shake that off and be grateful that Alex Jone's free speech is 1000% protected while their lives are potentially hanging by a thread.

I think greater punishment (by far) should be exacted on *perpetrators*. I also think actually *inciting* people to violence is a far cry from just a stupid statement that some idiot acted on. Acting violently on ideas is what makes wrong happen.

I disagree with your assessment. Seems like a bit of emotional hyperbole.

These clampdowns on speech are fine with you because you hate the guy.

I hate the guy too, but I know that protecting my speech requires me to protect speech I hate.

Punish the people who take violent action. Why is that so hard?

2 Replies

@Lash,

Lash wrote:

I think greater punishment (by far) should be exacted on *perpetrators*. I also think actually *inciting* people to violence is a far cry from just a stupid statement that some idiot acted on. Acting violently on ideas is what makes wrong happen.

I disagree with your assessment. Seems like a bit of emotional hyperbole.

These clampdowns on speech are fine with you because you hate the guy.

I hate the guy too, but I know that protecting my speech requires me to protect speech I hate.

Punish the people who take violent action. Why is that so hard?

I disagree with your assessment. Words matter.

Quote:

Carter's appeal stated that her "words encouraging Roy's suicide, however distasteful to this Court, were protected speech."

The appeal reignited the debate about whether someone could legally be found guilty of a crime if they weren't on the scene.

The appeal argued that if Carter's conviction was allowed to stand, "Massachusetts would be the only state to uphold an involuntary manslaughter conviction where an absent defendant, with words alone, encouraged another person to commit suicide," her attorneys wrote.

After the appeal was rejected, Carter was ordered to begin serving her sentence in February 2019.

https://people.com/crime/michelle-carter-trial-gallery-key-moments-conrad-roy-suicide/

1 Reply

@neptuneblue,

You make my point.

Carter’s words were, “Kill yourself.” Over and over and over.

She bore partial responsibility.

Jones didn’t tell people to harass the parents of the murdered children. That’s incitement. Incitement bears a lot more accountability.

1 Reply

@Lash,

You have a poor recollection of what Infowars actually did:

Quote:

Soon after the Dec. 14, 2012, mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Conn., Jones, the right-wing provocateur, began spreading outlandish theories that the killing of 20 first-graders and six educators was staged by the government and victims’ families as part of an elaborate plot to confiscate Americans’ firearms.

Many of the most noxious claims originated in the mind of Halbig, a retired Florida public school official who became fixated on what he called “this supposed tragedy’’ at Sandy Hook. Court records and a previously unreleased deposition given by Jones in one of a set of defamation lawsuits brought against him by the families of 10 Sandy Hook victims show how he and Halbig used each other to pursue their obsession and promote it on the Internet.

Over several years, Jones made Halbig a guest on “Infowars,’’ his radio and online show. “Infowars’’ gave Halbig a camera crew and a platform for fund-raising, even as Halbig repeatedly visited Newtown, demanding thousands of pages of public records, including photos of the murder scene, the children’s bodies, and receipts for the cleanup of “bodily fluids, brain matter, skull fragments and around 45 to 60 gallons of blood.’’

Given practical support and visibility by Jones, Halbig hounded families of the victims and other residents of Newtown, and promoted a baseless tale that Avielle Richman, a first-grader killed at Sandy Hook, was still alive.

https://edition.pagesuite.com/popovers/dynamic_article_popover.aspx?artguid=fc53c49d-90f4-43bd-a402-c32c0aa996d1&appid=1165&fbclid=IwAR2TehC2sd2pwixKTUrpWPn6vF8SqxY02igN0ESMin4VpLuBVEGgpNpqb04

Jones didn't tell people to harass the parents of the murdered children, Jones told people that it was a hoax, that the parents were lying and that it was a government cover up.

For that, he has total culpability.

1 Reply

@neptuneblue,

He lied or believed a lie and spewed it all over the place. To me, that’s not a crime.

If a reporter went to Newtown and harassed people, those people could’ve had the reporter arrested.

I think there’s a logical, measured response to actual crime.

I don’t want talking to be a crime.

I only want lying to be a crime if it’s under oath or some direct incitement to violence.

If an idiot says the Holocaust didn’t happen, I don’t want it to be illegal; I just want someone else to prove the idiot wrong.

Making words illegal will be used against us soon enough and by our government.

Think ahead.

2 Replies

@Lash,

It was a defamation lawsuit - not criminal.

Punitive Damages were awarded, not jail time.

Are you following this case or just being argumentative as a state of being?

1 Reply

@neptuneblue,

If I were being argumentative, you wouldn’t need to ask.

I don’t think what he said merited a billion dollars—nowhere near.
People seem to be unable to countenance that opinion.
I hope you’ll be ok.

2 Replies

@Lash,

I don't think you care one way or another if I'm ok. Just as I don't think you care whether or not those families who lost their children are ok. They'll never be "ok." Their children were viciously murdered and talked about like it was nothing. Just like you're doing now.

But it IS something. They received a Judgment from their peers who feel Infowars & Alex Jones deserve punishment for spreading lies and years long harassment.

1 Reply

@Lash,

I think he does not deserve to keep the money made lying and subjecting the Sandy Hook parents to danger and abuse. He made hundreds of millions: he loses hundreds of millions.

I also believe he deserves to pay a punitive hundreds of millions, too. If it adds up to a billion, then it's a billion.

How much is your kid worth? Isn't damage worse if you are subjected to horrible abuse all the while that someone is earning hundreds of millions telling lies? Would an "I'm sorry", sincere or not really be enough???

Why didn't he try to settle??????

1 Reply

@bobsal u1553115,

bobsal u1553115 wrote:

I think he does not deserve to keep the money made lying and subjecting the Sandy Hook parents to danger and abuse. He made hundreds of millions: he loses hundreds of millions.

I also believe he deserves to pay a punitive hundreds of millions, too. If it adds up to a billion, then it's a billion.

How much is your kid worth? Isn't damage worse if you are subjected to horrible abuse all the while that someone is earning hundreds of millions telling lies? Would an "I'm sorry", sincere or not really be enough???

Amen!

0 Replies

@neptuneblue,

Maybe I should be sued for a billion for my opinion, since I talked about dead children as if their lives were nothing.

2 Replies

@Lash,

There was a lot more than that going on. You aren't Alex Jones, Inc. You aren't ghoulishly attacking dead children or doxing their parent or making obscene accusations and making money of it.

If you were, well, maybe you might deserve legal sanctioning. Just like Alex is facing justice.

0 Replies

@Lash,

Maybe you should show some decorum and grace.

2 Replies

@Lash,

You need someone to "prove" the Holcaust happened?

Really? You don't think the evidence is overwhelming?

Why should people have to waste their time arguing with people who refuse to see reason?

It's a waste of time, it's counterproductive because it suggests they have a point.

And idiots who say the Holocaust didn't happen don't just do that, they print leaflets and put them through Jewish people's letterboxes, they write grafitti on their houses and defile their graves.

What you're saying is, if I told lies about your children resulting in someone killing them in front of you then I bear no liability at all, and can continue lying about your murdered children and mock you mercilessly because, they're just "stupid words."

1 Reply

@neptuneblue,

neptuneblue wrote:

Maybe you should show some decorum and grace.

Decorum and grace = speaking about subjects in a way you or some oppressive unelected group finds acceptable,

or be subjected to arbitrary punitive fines.

0 Replies

@izzythepush,

Re the Holocaust analogy: I mean the first line against denial is an opposing voice.

Automatic lawsuits and jail time for speech, imo, is wrong.
I do agree with laws about defamation, but there should be some logic behind calculations for damages.

1 Reply

@Lash,

Has infoshit been sent to jail?

No, so stop making **** up.

I can see why you value lies over truth.

You are saying Holocaust deniers should be respected and engaged with, not dismissed out of hand.

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

The Alex Jones defamation case doesn’t exist in a vacuum. The precedent is much more concerning that what happened to this specific person.

1 Reply

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