Reply
Sun 14 Aug, 2005 06:23 am
I am a single woman in a long term relationship with a married man. When I say long term, we are in the middle of our 6th year together. I have read a lot online about these types relationships, trying to get some moral support. This is also not the first forum I've been to. But let me tell you a little about us. He is much older, 18 yrs older than myself. He has been in his marriage for 42 yrs. He told me when we first met and the attraction began that he would never leave his wife. He stated she has done nothing to deserve what he is about to do to her, and he will not leave her unless she finds out and kicks him out, or unless she initiates a divorce first. He told me that up front. He said if I wanted to put the stops on us right then and there, he would understand, but that was the terms he had to have and it was basically a take it or leave it situation. At that point I just wanted to spend some time getting to know him, and I would decide about staying later. Now, 6.5 yrs later, here I am desperately in love with this man and he is still sticking by his "terms". I guess I am glad he is not telling me things that will never be, like some married men do with their mistresses. "Ill leave her when the time is right". He has re stated that if she left him, it would be ok. They have not had sex in 4 years. She wont let him touch her. He and I both think she knows about us but will never say anything because first of all she hates conflict, and secondly she has no where to go if they split, and thirdly she likes being taken care of, which he does very nicely, I might add. He says he loves me. I believe him. The evidence is there, all but the leaving his wife. He treats me well, and we are very close emotionally and intellectually. Our sex is steamy and quite open and desirable. We spend several hours daily chatting with eachother online, and on the phone. We get to visit only about once every 2 months, especially during the winter months. This has been our life for 6 yrs now. Not long ago, I was in one of my depressed modes over our circumstances and told him that sometimes I just didn't understand where I stood with him. He asked "where do you want to stand??" Without even thinking before I spoke, I shot back "Where I cannot!" He merely asked "are you sure about that?" I said yes. And it was dropped. And so, I have resigned myself to living in his world. You know the old song that says "I'd rather live in his world, than live without him in mine". Exactly. Am I wrong for wishing it was more?
Jun--
Welcome to A2K.
You ask:
Quote:Am I wrong for wishing it was more?
You accepted your lover's terms for this affair. You can certainly wish for "more", but unless there is a death in his family or his wife follows through on her wish for "more", you are not going to get what you want.
Your lover has made the rules to suit his conscience. You are the "other" woman, a bit on the side, a delightful diversion from a rule-bound life--but you are not his whole life.
I gather that he is in his sixties and you are somewhere in your forties. Is this so?
Your age guesses are correct, yes. And you are also correct... I knew the terms going in. For that I am grateful. But knowing the terms and liking them are two different things. I have made that clear to MM.
The 40's are a restless time for women--even when children or potential children are not a factor.
I'd guess that on some level you are anxious to move on, to expand your life and explore a wider world and being in a part time relationship is becoming irksome.
Unfortunately, one of the characteristics of an affair is that it is only part time, no matter how much you yearn for a less fragmented life.
Your title says that you've invested too much of yourself to pull out--are you sure about that? Memories and learning you can carry with you.
Noddy,
You ask if I am sure I cannot pull out. I am sure. I have never been more sure of anything in my life. I have given my all to this man. Every thought, every emotion, everything. I do not ever care to do this again. If not with him, then, I am done. I just can't do it again.
Everyone you read who is in this sort of situation claims "what we have is special. It is different". I am no different. I believe in us. I believe we are special. I believe we are different, and I believe what we have comes but once in a lifetime. I believe what he and I have is worth fighting for and putting up with lots of conditions. I have been married before, for 18 yrs with 4 children now grown, so I know what marriage is about.
I am in terrific pain over this situation, with no one to share it with. I don't know what I am going to do, but leaving him is not an option for me. It is not that I don't think I am strong enough to leave him. I think I could do that, yes. What I think would be very difficult would be my life AFTER the leaving. Yes, I have thought about when we are older. He already has age specific illness... high blood pressure. Do you think I have not thought about what would happen if he died?? I worry about it all the time! He is not mine for me to take care of! We will not be buried side by side in some pretty little cemetery plot. He will be beside a woman I have never met, that he has spent his life with. Yes, I have thought about what it will be like 10 or 15 years from now, if we are still alive. And still, I go on loving him.
Snap out of it, Jun!
geez, you are old enough to know better. I guess ridiculousness knows no age boundaries.
You are still young. Don't you feel you could do better than being a perpetual mistress to a man who is 20 yrs your elder (umm, not to mention he gets to have a wife and a home and a life AND steamy sex w you?!)
If you were my mother I'd slap you on the face and throw you in a cold shower. You need to wake up and enjoy some of the best years of your life- not piss around like a 20 yr old.
In fact, I believe I told that to my mother: she went through the same ****.
Where is your daughter to Give you a swift kick in the A**?! You need it.
best of luck:)
Jun--
Phoenix has spelled out your options.
I find it interesting that you can visualize his death and a lonely Second Class Widowhood, but not an end to the romance with a new beginning.
Quote:Do you think I have not thought about what would happen if he died?? I worry about it all the time! He is not mine for me to take care of! We will not be buried side by side in some pretty little cemetery plot. He will be beside a woman I have never met, that he has spent his life with. Yes, I have thought about what it will be like 10 or 15 years from now, if we are still alive. And still, I go on loving him.
Still, you go on loving him--but you still want more.
Yes, and I thank Phoenix for being honest. Sound advice, I know. I am not able at this time to act upon it. In the mean time, I will hang around and read a bit more. And yes... noddy, go on loving.
Thanks for all the responses. Just feeling a bit lonely this weekend, as MM is off on a camping trip with his son and family.
The love that happens in an extramarital affair is sometimes serious but it is a love that generally stays within a certain temperature zone, boosted by the inability to possess that is part of the situation by nature, and encased by the lack of development into the kind of love that is part of the quotidian life of fulltime, or married, mates.
That daily life advances to stages of extreme irritation, boredom, reassessment of who you are to each other, and reassessment again, growth after acceptance - another whole plane of relationship beyond the stasis of a romantic affair - and in that dailyness comes, with engagement on both people's part, the kind of love that is a product of the real, one that grows deeper and richer. A different kind of joy, a deeper joy.
You are denying yourself that kind of relationship to stay in this one - which you could be shunted out of at any time, a sort of martyr to a romantic cause.
I don't think you are too deep to get out.
Quote:Phoenix wrote:
It is the relief of the affair that often exactly what makes the marriage bearable.
I believe this to be true too.
Quote:Jun wrote:
You ask if I am sure I cannot pull out. I am sure. I have never been more sure of anything in my life. I have given my all to this man. Every thought, every emotion, everything. I do not ever care to do this again. If not with him, then, I am done. I just can't do it again.
Been there, done that. Felt the same way. It took me several years to even think about dating again and then I made a mess of things with my fear of being hurt again. I'm still making a mess of things to be honest but it's getting better.
The truth is you can move on and you can live without someone who can't give all of himself to you as you say you have to him. You deserve better. Allow yourself the chance to have what you deserve.
Affair with another womans husband hmmmm, understand if I dont give you much sympathy...you stated that he says his wife is very 'undeserving', and that he wont leave her unless she finds out and kicks him out!
Wake up, he wont and he never will respect you, he will never leave her unless she cuts her ties to him, so where does that leave you? waiting like a fool in the background for 6 and a half years, and what if the marriage does all fall apart? do you think he will come running to you, probably- until someone better comes along and if no one does at least he will have you to wipe his ass for him in his later years!
-my advice, get out now.
Jun wrote:
Noddy,
You ask if I am sure I cannot pull out. I am sure. I have never been more sure of anything in my life. I have given my all to this man. Every thought, every emotion, everything. I do not ever care to do this again. If not with him, then, I am done. I just can't do it again.
Perfect.
That is the best thing you've said.
Don't get in a relationship with a man who is married and only invests half of what you entitled into you.
Jun wrote:
Everyone you read who is in this sort of situation claims "what we have is special. It is different". I am no different. I believe in us. I believe we are special. I believe we are different, and I believe what we have comes but once in a lifetime. I believe what he and I have is worth fighting for and putting up with lots of conditions. I have been married before, for 18 yrs with 4 children now grown, so I know what marriage is about.
Clearly he does not.
...and clearly
you do not.
Jun wrote:
I am in terrific pain over this situation, with no one to share it with. I don't know what I am going to do, but leaving him is not an option for me.
Then you've settled the debate.
don't be so weak. I hate it when girls focus on the past in terms of being too deep to go back. You need to focus on the present and the future. who cares how many years it's been.!!! I've met some not so happy girls in relationships and the reason they continue to be miserable is because they don't want the past years to mean nothing. They'd hate to think that the past years were for nothing or wasted years. I wouldn't exactly call the years "wasted" but girls need to be forward thinkers sometimes.
Well, eighteen years of a marriage than didn't work and six plus years of a love affair that is not moving forward leave a woman, not a girl, with a sense of futility about taking off on her own - and that would be for one who wanted to leave the affair, and Jun says she doesn't.
I think she is too close to the situation to see the resolution and growth of moving past the affair, and suspect that she hasn't been really on her own in a long long time, and being on your own is very frightening for many people - it is a clear fright for many people who post on the relationships and marriage threads, whatever their ages.
Ossobuco--
You have a point here. Better the devil you know than the devil you haven't met yet.
Better lonely weekends than great change.
Jun- Does he support you? Do you have a way of taking care of yourself financially if you were to leave him? If you are being supported by him, and do not have a decent paying career, I could understand your reluctance. It would be more difficult............but definitely not impossible.
I agree with the others in saying that I would run, not walk away from this situation. You have already wasted over 6 years of your life with this man, so why waste any more time.
If he died tomorrow you would be left shattered, heartbroken, and alone. You would not be welcome at his funeral, his gravesite, and could not openly talk about him to his family and friends. What would be left for you? Private memories, the pain of wishing all those years you had an open, monogamous relationship, children?
If something has to be hidden, then you are not truly living.
I realize that this man is, to you, the love of your life. You are happy to have a tiny piece of him for whatever time he allows you in. That may be enough for you. Do other people think you are nuts? Maybe. I wouldn't let a man dictate how much or how often I am "allowed" to love him. I'd want at least an equal relationship. I personally would be dreadfully unhappy in your situation and would not continue. You say it is not an option for you. So what is your question? You are not going to break it off with him. He is not going to leave his wife for you. You want permission to wish for more? You can wish all you want, wishes are free. I am of the opinion that we get one life. I don't think there is a heaven or hell and so we have to make the most of the time we have here (heaven AND hell on earth). I wouldn't be deliberating putting up with crap and making do with ****. I'd be trying to make things better, and making ME happier, or at least working at happiness.
Depends on what happiness is to you.
My grandparents were of a similar age difference and after my grandfather died my grandmother said she could never love again. She had devoted her whole life to my grandfather and her children - it truly was a love match, but not without its problems. A year after my grandfather's death my grandmother met another man at a community event. They started seeing each other and one thing lead to another and eventually they moved in together. Neither felt the need to do the marriage thing again, but this too was a love match. My grandmother once confessed (in a whisper to my mother) that he was even a better lover than my grandfather had been.
There is no such thing as a final love so long as there is life. At least try and meet someone new, it's not like you have to be faithful to a man who is not faithful to you.
Stumble It!
Tweet This
Bookmark on Delicious
Share on Facebook
Share on MySpace