I need ideas: Creative discipline for sassing

@boomerang,

boomerang wrote:

I think I've created a monster.

Some history:

Mo, a child I am raising and hope to adopt, is strongly suspected of having an attachment disorder. I have read a lot about this and have spoken to a counselor and have received some great advice from those familiar with attachement disorders. One thing they all agree on -- that "time out" is not an effective punishment for kids with RAD.

You should also know that I will not spank him. Please don't suggest that.

Here's the deal:

Much of what I hear suggest that when there is a problem that I react BIG.

This has worked well for most things but we are entering a big sassing stage and what I'm hearing now is him mimicing my BIG reactions:

"WHAT DID YOU DO/SAY?"
"YOU WILL NOT THREATEN ME!"
"YOU WILL NOT TREAT ME LIKE THAT!"
"WHAT!!!?"

Uh oh. Oh crap. What do I do now?

Big reactions don't seem to work on sass. I've been resorting to time out. As I've been warned: time out is not effective.

I need some creative ideas -- and I need them quick. This sass and back-talk stage is very difficult. By the end of the day I am depressed and desparing. I really need to find a non-violent way to stop this before it escalates and becomes a real problem for all of us.

I appreciate any advice you can give!

Thanks!

There is another way that u might possibly look at it, Boomerang, to wit:
Mo 's strength of character, in standing up for what he believes,
in his little way; he does not have many options open to him.

There is something to be admired in someone who finds the courage
to give voice to his beliefs, rather than cowering in fear, silently.

If u think its worth the time, put yourself in his position.
Put yourself into his state-of-mind.

WHATAYATHINK ?

David
P.S.:
What is "an attachment disorder" ?

0 Replies

I recommend to your attention a technique
that my mother applied with me, over 60 years ago:
sit with him and earnestly reason with him.
Cultivate his skills of analysis. Explain the value of logic to him.
Explain causes, effects and probabilities.

David

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

Wow. How weird to go back and read this. This was half his life ago. We're still dealing with this stuff; I suppose we always will be dealing with this stuff.

There really isn't an easy answer to "what is an attachment disorder", David. It's a very complicated issue. Here is one short answer:

Quote:

Disorganised-disoriented insecure attachment, a pattern common in infants abused in the first 2 years of life, is psychologically manifest as an inability to generate a coherent strategy for coping with relational stress. Early abuse negatively impacts the developmental trajectory of the right brain, dominant for attachment, affect regulation, and stress modulation, thereby setting a template for the coping deficits of both mind and body that characterise PTSD symptomatology.

Sadly, the logic of cause = effect is really lost on these kids. They have to learn the hard way and they have to relearn it the hard way over and over and over and over again. And even then they still sometimes don't learn it.

On the positive side, I have learned to be very tolerent and patient with mistakes, and to ignore the gossip that I'm an irresponsible parent for allowing my child to make so many mistakes.

Mo has learned to question authority and to be heard and to realize that I love him even when he makes a lot of mistakes.

1 Reply

@boomerang,

boomerang wrote:

Quote:

Wow. How weird to go back and read this.
This was half his life ago.

It was not weird; I did not "go back".

It was the first (top) reference offered among "Related Topics"
toward the bottom of the page, on the thread titled:
"Can Anyone Help Me? My Parents Smoke Pot!! i NEED Advice!!"

I posted on that thread and I saw your thread toward the bottom
of the page. I support the libertarian spirit of speaking up,
using logic in support of your own position,
in preference to cowering in silence; therefore, I responded
to your thread. I am too lazy to go far back in history.
What I lack in laziness, I make up for in lethargy.

Quote:

We're still dealing with this stuff;
I suppose we always will be dealing with this stuff.

There really isn't an easy answer to "what is an attachment disorder", David.
It's a very complicated issue.
Here is one short answer:

Quote:

Disorganised-disoriented insecure attachment, a pattern common in infants abused in the first 2 years of life, is psychologically manifest as an inability to generate a coherent strategy for coping with relational stress. Early abuse negatively impacts the developmental trajectory of the right brain, dominant for attachment, affect regulation, and stress modulation, thereby setting a template for the coping deficits of both mind and body that characterise PTSD symptomatology.

I see; do u believe that he had been abused before u received him?

Quote:

Sadly, the logic of cause = effect is really lost on these kids.
They have to learn the hard way and they have to relearn it the
hard way over and over and over and over again. And even then
they still sometimes don't learn it.

From your posts, I have inferred that he is a bright fellow.
Does he get good grades in school?

Quote:

On the positive side, I have learned to be very tolerent and patient with mistakes,
and to ignore the gossip that I'm an irresponsible parent for allowing my child to make so many mistakes.

It sounds like the gossipers have been very unfair to u,
in that no one can prevent anyone else from making mistakes.
Thay shoud know that.

Quote:

Mo has learned to question authority and to be heard
and to realize that I love him even when he makes a lot of mistakes.

I can see that he is very fortunate to have u.
How old was he when u received him?

It is important to be careful of HOW u question authority.
THAT can be full of surprizes.

AUTHORITY can be a lot more delicate n fragile than it appears on the surface.
For instance, when I was around 14 or 15,
I began a semester in a hi school history class
whose (liberal) teacher made a good professional impression on me,
qua fostering a robust inquiry into history with critical thinking.
The next day, to get the ball rolling, I challenged one of his
(liberal) historical heros, whereupon he exhibited some of the symptoms
of a heart attack (labored breathing, profuse sweating, chest pain).
I was not expecting THAT to happen.
I got thrown out of his class (by mutual consent;
I did not want him getting too close to my grades).

Some years thereafter, I was taking a depostion of a woman
who was suing my client. She was a federal beaurocrat n very arrogant.
She persistently tried to evade some of my questions.
When I pinned her down in my interrogation, she abruptly
broke down in tears; that was very unexpected and out of character;
(but I got the information).

Anyway, the point is that when questioning authority,
it may be wise to do so in a non-threatening way for best results.
IF it is possible to get what u want by polite charm,
that might be the better way.

David

0 Replies

Oh gosh. I meant it was weird for me to go back and read this, not for someone else to have brought it up. Sorry for the confusion.

I'm actually glad you posted to the thread. It was good for me to look historically at this.

If people judge me harshly I don't really care but I can't say that it doesn't bother me, or sometimes scare me, people can be very meddlesome these days. And yes, parents are judged by their kid's mistakes, and even their non-mistakes.

He was treated very unfairly at school last week over an incident that didn't even happen at school. They wouldn't let him explain so he left class, went to the office and called me. I went there, talked to him, talked to some of the teachers involved, came home, called Mr. B -- at 3:00 we went up there and made them listen while Mo explained, which was all he wanted to do in the first place.

You'd probably like Mo, David.

1 Reply

@boomerang,

boomerang wrote:

Quote:

Oh gosh. I meant it was weird for me to go back and read this,
not for someone else to have brought it up.
Sorry for the confusion.

That's OK, Boomer.

Quote:

I'm actually glad you posted to the thread.
It was good for me to look historically at this.

Yeah; when someone posts to one of my old threads,
it usually makes me happy, that someone has brought it back to life,
regardless of whether he is pro or con.
(Actually, that just happened, by someone who I have on Ignore.)

Quote:

If people judge me harshly I don't really care but I can't say that
it doesn't bother me, or sometimes scare me, people can be very
meddlesome these days. And yes, parents are judged by their
kid's mistakes, and even their non-mistakes.

I find that hard to believe; u come across as such a pleasant person.
How can that BE ??

Quote:

He was treated very unfairly at school last week
over an incident that didn't even happen at school.

If it did not happen at school, then it is questionable
that it is any of their business.

Quote:

They wouldn't let him explain so he left class, went to the office and called me.
I went there, talked to him, talked to some of the teachers involved, came home,
called Mr. B -- at 3:00 we went up there and made them listen while Mo explained,
which was all he wanted to do in the first place.

That is ADMIRABLE, that he does not let people walk all over him
and it is very admirable that u and your husband defended him.
I wanna give u and your husband hearty cyber-handshakes.
Thay don 't sound like being rational comes naturally to them.
IT IS TO YOUR CREDIT that u stood up for your little boy.
There r some parents who r not that good.
I am sure that in the years n decades to come he will REMEMBER U
for your support. Possibly, if u feel like it,
when he feels abused by unreasonable people u might
do something to counteract his emotional pain by taking him out
to a good restaurant, or a movie or whatever he enjoys in life.
I have discovered that sometimes making another person happy IS FUN !!!

U put me in mind of my own good fortune,
when I was about to begin attending school for the first time.
My mother advised me to stand up for my rights, if I felt abused,
and that if a teacher were guilty of that, I shoud tell my mother
and she 'd tale care of that. I did, and my mother did, for real.
It was not just theoretical.
I remember my mother with love, respect and gratitude, for that.

Some school teachers r of questionable mental stability,
like my second grade teacher, a youngish woman named Miss Raid,
whom we learned to expect that about 7 times on a typical day,
she closed her hands into fists, brought them up to chest height,
closed her eyes very tightly, dropped her jaw down
and let out a scream continuous for about 25 seconds;
maybe her effort to emulate an air raid siren.

Quote:

You'd probably like Mo, David.

From your representations, I already like Mo.
Is that short for a name, like Pat,
or is that his whole first name ?
His walking out of class as u described it is awe-inspiring !
He deserves a gold medal.

Maybe he 'd like to become a trial attorney, if he likes to argue.

David

0 Replies

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