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I need ideas: Creative discipline for sassing

 
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Aug, 2005 08:57 pm
We reiterate "mommy/daddy always comes back" constantly.
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DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Aug, 2005 10:12 pm
I've been rolling this around in my head and had a few additional thought. I hope it's too late to help. Smile

First, the idea of throwing away a favorite toy has been bothering me. It seems to me that this would play into Mo's primary insecurity, which is that the people/things/places that he loves can be snatched away from him at any time. I think a better approach would be to store a toy, and tell him that he can earn the opportunity to play with it.



I have a friend who has had good luck with the "Harry Potter point system." They award points the same way that the teachers at Hogwarts do, and at the end of the week they have a ceremony to award the "family cup." I know Mo's an only child, but you could modify it so that if he has x points at the end of the week he earns a special treat. "Minus ten points for backtalk!"
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littlek
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Aug, 2005 11:01 pm
<bookmark, in case I haven't been here yet - - - too late to browse right now>
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shewolfnm
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Aug, 2005 06:48 am
wow.
not to change any topic but is it some kind of FAD in your area for parents to dump their kids??
In your neighborhood / area that is what 3? 4? Kids who have been dumped?
Some parents really piss me off.
I can NOT imagine doing that to my child.
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boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Aug, 2005 07:30 am
DrewDad - I don't throw his toys away. I shelf his toys that he won't pick up, keep them for a bit and let him earn them back.

The reward system is something I'm going to have to think on. Because this is mostly behavior related stuff I fear ending up in a Catch-22.

If he doesn't talk back and I reward him does that mean that I really expect him to talk back?

"Catch them doing something right" was always my first order of business, in business. I try to adopt that with Mo too so that we concentrate more on positive behavior than negative behavior but it gets tricky when awarding points.

Shewolf, I fear it's more epidemic than fad. With Mo's family it is multi-generational. With a lot of other families it's drugs. With a lot of others it is the combination of lack of sex education coupled with a pro-life environment. For others it's .......... whatever.
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dupre
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Aug, 2005 08:35 am
Hi, I've been reading along, and am ready for my typically unconventional slew of responses.

I agree that the issue with MO is control.

Some background to my upcoming over-the-top suggestion:

I remember reading that at a certain very young age, a toddler really likes to play with rubber bands, because they always pop right back into shape, and then, they hate rubber bands, because they always pop back into shape. They prefer silly putty because when they poke their fingers into it, it retains its shape. It's all about their personal power, about having an impact on the world around them. About control.

The trick is to show them what works and what doesn't work, and I suggest starting with what doesn't work, and then, later, going into what does work.

MO likes a little drama and theater, and I see no reason not to use that as a device, to let him "see" how ineffective his strategies are, and to let him "feel" how little impact they have on his primary objective: contolling others.

So here's two ways to do that and still have a little fun with lots of laughter.

MIRRORING

When he says, "Give me a bananna, NOW."

You look at him, pause, smile, wait a beat, reach out, hold his hand, giggle some, and say--in his exact tone of voice--"Give me some private time, NOW."

Calmly, and with a smile, watch his stunned reaction. Then tell him quietly, with that I-told-you-so tone of voice, "Not very effective, is it? ... Next time, I suggest you try saying something like, 'When it is convenient for you, may I please have a bananna?" Don't be afraid to use an occassional word they don't understand. He may ask what "convenient" means, and will be distracted by there being something in the great big world he didn't know, and a little humbled, and may ask what it means, and you're are off on a brief lesson of polite living merely by defining a word.

Other strategy, and even more fun!

DRAMA LESSON

He says, "Get me a bananna, NOW!"

You look at him full of pity and concern. You say, "You're doing it all wrong. You need to hold that last word a little bit longer. You need to say, 'Get me a bananna, NOOOOOOOW!' And, it needs to be a lot louder ... like this: 'Get me a bananna NNNNNOOOOOOOOOWWWWWW!!!!' Here, you try."

He tries to copy you. And you laugh and say, "That's a little better, but really, now, take a deep breath, no deeper, that's right, now, through the nose, here, put the sound through your nose, like this"--nasally you say, with a long loud drawn-out whine--"Get me a bananna NNNOOOOOOOOWWWWWW!... Okay, now you try."

And go back and forth with it. Get in front of a mirror and go for it, till he's exhausted, and realizes that no matter how loud, and long, and nasally he goes, it's just never going to reach the level of being enough to cause the effect he wants.

When you are done laughing over this with him as you both discover the limits of his voice, you could say something like--very softly--"Well, if that doesn't work, you can always simply ask, 'When it's convenient for you, may I please have a bananna."

Make the simpler approach easier for him to choose and far more effective.

Have fun!
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Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Aug, 2005 09:10 am
A bank account of rewards and punishments...?

Make up a few pieces of currency with Mo. May laminate some interesting construction paper shapes with redeemable fun or chores on them. Designate a shape of color as "fun"money...and one as "not fun"--or your choice of designations.

Make his "bank" where he stores what he has earned, but he shouldn't have access to it unless he's with you.

Explain how a fun card is earned and how important respect and kindness are to you--and when he "talks back" he will receive a 'not fun' card.

Now, figure that out as best you can... If he has a good card and asks for a special consideration, go to the bank to see if he's earned it? Or, if the accumilation of bad cards prevents him from the favorable answer..? I'm sure you could probably think of more creative ways to translate fun and not fun cards--but the inference, I think, is that you do a lot for Mo. You take care of his needs AND his desires.

Maybe this will connect the desires--your fulfillment of them--with how he treats you...?

Not to mention the banking theory introduced.

Anyhoo, good luck.
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Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Aug, 2005 09:12 am
PS-- Of course, a sass will earn a not fun card, but I think it's important to --once in a while when he's behaving, say--"I think that deserves a fun card, because you were nice to me and I appreciate it when you are."

Maybe every day deserves an aggregate card...? You can tailor it to your specifications.
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DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Aug, 2005 10:20 pm
boomerang wrote:
DrewDad - I don't throw his toys away. I shelf his toys that he won't pick up, keep them for a bit and let him earn them back.

I didn't think you were; your response indicated a reluctance to follow that particular course of action.

boomerang wrote:
The reward system is something I'm going to have to think on. Because this is mostly behavior related stuff I fear ending up in a Catch-22.

If he doesn't talk back and I reward him does that mean that I really expect him to talk back?

"Catch them doing something right" was always my first order of business, in business. I try to adopt that with Mo too so that we concentrate more on positive behavior than negative behavior but it gets tricky when awarding points.

"Catch him doing something right" is exactly what it would take. Award points for helping with laundry, picking up his plate after a meal, cleaning his room or keeping it clean, etc.
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boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Sun 21 Aug, 2005 07:56 am
dupre! I tried the "drama lesson" last night with hilarious results! Thank you!

I was trying to get Mo to take a bath. He was racing around the backyard screaming "I don't wanna take a bath" and "Just a few more minutes" and just plain screaming.

I said "Wait. Wait. You've got it all wrong." and proceeded to dramatically repeat back his complaints.

We were both laughing and Mo was in the tub before I knew it!

Great suggestion.

I've been thinking of the point system and I love adding the banking concept (thanks Lash!) in with that too.

I'm thinking it might motivate Mo to earn new cars for his trains with a special trip to the toy store to pick one out. Maybe some "Thomas Bucks" would do the trick....
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 21 Aug, 2005 08:04 am
One other thing about a banking system. My 4th-6th grade teacher used something called "Great-O-Grams" ("gogs"). He'd hand them out for lots of reasons; being especially helpful to another student, doing a report particularly well, etc. The idea was that the gogs could be traded in for items, but pretty much nobody did! They were so valued that they were collected and cherished for themselves. They were bright yellow, and I still remember the thrill of opening a report and seeing a flash of yellow...
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Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sun 21 Aug, 2005 08:47 am
What an impact that had, soz! I, too, think positive notes to mom--or positive notes from mom--are so underrated by most people. Glad they're not here!

I still do it. My daughter is almost 18!! and I stop her in the hallway or just hold eye contact sometimes and tell her how proud I am about her grades in college--or that she comes home on time, or that she calls me when she's running late, or that she hasn't wrecked our car...LOL!!

Everyone needs to hear something edifying once in a while.
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dupre
 
  2  
Reply Sun 21 Aug, 2005 09:50 am
boomerang, I'm so glad that worked and that you both had fun!

I'll never forget when my child threw himself on the floor and started kicking and screaming and holding his breath.

I said, "Oh! I've haven't done that in years! It looks like so much fun!" And, I joined him.

He was so stunned he just laughed and I laughed and we kicked and screamed and laughed till we were exhausted.

And he never tried it again.
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Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Aug, 2005 07:12 am
My daughter's teacher did this in kindergarten - the reward points/stickers. It seemed to work great for the kids. Similar to sozobe, they were awarded stickers for a variety of things - not just their school work. They were rewarded for helping others, behaving, etc. They even periodically would be asked if they made their own bed at home that morning. If they did they were rewarded with a sticker. Surprisingly my daughter answered honestly and sometimes did not get a sticker for this. After getting a certain number - fill their card - they could go to the treasure box and select some small token. The card was big enough that children were not going to the treasure box every week, but also small enough that the goal was attainable.

In all the grades, they even gave special awards throughout the year for something over and above - most of these were more geared toward soft skills - helpfulness, working hard, etc. They were given a small reward - pencil, lollipop and received a certificate that was brought home for the parent to sign. During that quarter, they also had a pictures hanging in front of the main office of all the children holding their awards.

I think even a little certificate type of thing may be helpful. Many children just love the attention, ceremony and notice that they are performing well.

Great point Lash. My daughter is a horrible whiner. When she finally asks for something like a big girl without my telling her, I always tell her - you said that like such a big girl - I am very proud of you or similar. You can see the impact in their eyes and smile. They definitely appreciate it when you notice.
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Devious Britches
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Aug, 2005 12:26 pm
Oooh or a trip to a train Museum? Lol Dupree you know I was reading your post and caught myself doing that as i read changing my voice hehe that was kind fo fun. I love your idea.
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Devious Britches
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Aug, 2005 10:07 am
One of the things My baby sister tells me is she misses the notes I use to put in her lunch. I had to finish raising her when My mom passed and I enjoyed making her smile. I had stopped for a bit cause I was afraid the other kids would dease her but she asked right away why I had stopped. I told her why and she said oh yeah some do but they are the ones that don't have someone who cares. That felt great smile. Now she is 22 and a big butthead haha umm guess I spoiled her just a lil to much.
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Noddy24
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Aug, 2005 11:43 am
D_B--

You've earned your wonderful memories. How is Mr. 3 coming along?

Hold your dominion.
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FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Aug, 2005 02:56 pm
Indeed DB, I can see why you are doing foster parenting. You must be very good at it.
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crysandson
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Jan, 2008 01:12 am
parenting and childcare
my 9 yr old son has some of the same problems and I found that a spinner freeware designed for teachers works well it is the same as drawing a name out of a hat only with lights and sounds. instead of name I make a list consequences and then when my son breaks a rule he has to come to the computer to find out what his consequence is. this really helps with attachment disorder issues as you are not the bad guy, the computer is the one that gives the consequence.this also works will for adhd problems becouse the lights and sounds.I find the consequence spinner works well with a good reward program. our chart gots lots of things my son can earn rewards for but if he gets in trouble he looses so many points for warnings and so many more for a demerit ( what he gets when he has to spin the spinner) this way he can see his long term consequences as well. I use handipoints.com for my reward chart and the top hat from harmony hollow software for my spinner and both are free.
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dadpad
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Jan, 2008 01:30 am
Welcome to A2K crys.

good info there, i'm sure it will be appreciated by parents everywhere
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