1
   

Woman to challenge Sen. Clinton in New York

 
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Aug, 2005 11:38 am
Re: BBB
BumbleBeeBoogie wrote:
kelticwizard wrote:
JustWonders wrote:
Pirro will force Hillary to stop lying about serving out her Senate term if she wins. It has nothing to do with putting 'a dent in Clinton's war chest'. It's to stop her lies.


Oh? Has Hillary guaranteed that she will serve out her Senate term if elected?

Maybe you should Email Mrs. Pirro about this, because apparently she doesn't think so. Very Happy

Mrs. Pirro wrote:
"But now she [Mrs. Clinton] wants us to re-elect her even though she won't promise to serve out her term....

Source


Sort of silly not to remember that George W. Bush didn't serve out his term as Texas governor.

Oh, I forgot, this is only criticized if a Democrat does it.

My bad!

BBB


It amazes me how Bush owns you so...
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Aug, 2005 11:44 am
JustWonders wrote:
Pirro has no chance unless Hillary drops out and I think that's more the point of her running than anything.


How would Ms. Clinton's decision to stay or drop out impact Ms. Pirro's campaign to become the Republican candidate? Is Ms. Clinton thinking of running for the Republicans next time round?
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Aug, 2005 06:02 pm
kelticwizard wrote:
Oh? Has Hillary guaranteed that she will serve out her Senate term if elected?

Maybe you should Email Mrs. Pirro about this, because apparently she doesn't think so. Very Happy

Mrs. Pirro wrote:
"But now she [Mrs. Clinton] wants us to re-elect her even though she won't promise to serve out her term....

Source


That's just it, Hillary has said she's running for re-election to the Senate, but is playing coy about running for president in '08. Since at least one-third of New Yorkers have said they want her to serve a full term if re-elected to the Senate, Pirro will force her to finally admit that she may not be around to be their junior Senator from NY.

Hillary will no doubt beat Pirro, but she's going to also have to come clean with New Yorkers.
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Aug, 2005 06:05 pm
Re: BBB
BumbleBeeBoogie wrote:
kelticwizard wrote:
JustWonders wrote:
Pirro will force Hillary to stop lying about serving out her Senate term if she wins. It has nothing to do with putting 'a dent in Clinton's war chest'. It's to stop her lies.


Oh? Has Hillary guaranteed that she will serve out her Senate term if elected?

Maybe you should Email Mrs. Pirro about this, because apparently she doesn't think so. Very Happy

Mrs. Pirro wrote:
"But now she [Mrs. Clinton] wants us to re-elect her even though she won't promise to serve out her term....

Source




Sort of silly not to remember that George W. Bush didn't serve out his term as Texas governor.

Oh, I forgot, this is only criticized if a Democrat does it.

My bad!

BBB


Bush made it clear in the '98 race that he planned to run for president in 2000. Gary Mauro couldn't use the "he won't be around" tag because everyone already knew it. And...Bush still won 68-31 Smile
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Aug, 2005 06:14 pm
au1929 wrote:
JW

I am sure the republicans are doing that for altruistic purposes, to inform the public. If they were not afraid of Hillary running for president would they go to this length.
Give me a break, will you!


Hillary Rodham Clinton Rodham has been portraying herself as a "moderate" or "centrist" (just ask the DLC) while, in fact, she's one of the most liberal Senators around.

Pirro will no doubt pin her down on the issues and decloak her for the leftist she is. If it means Pirro must sacrifice her own chance at winning, fine by me, as long as she exposes Hillary's agenda for all the world to see.

Hillary will most likely still win the Senate race, but it's going to be fun to watch her squirm Smile
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Aug, 2005 06:16 pm
the day a bunch of piss ant neo cons or their pet lemmings make Old Hill squirm I'd like to see it.....
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Aug, 2005 06:19 pm
ehBeth wrote:
JustWonders wrote:
Pirro has no chance unless Hillary drops out and I think that's more the point of her running than anything.


How would Ms. Clinton's decision to stay or drop out impact Ms. Pirro's campaign to become the Republican candidate? Is Ms. Clinton thinking of running for the Republicans next time round?


If Pirro's campaign heats up the Senate race enough, Hillary may be forced to admit she's planning to run for president in '08. At the least, she'll have to admit she's seriously thinking about it. New York is not a totally blue state and there are many who would want the senator they vote for to be around for the entire six years.

Also, a close Senate race between Pirro and Clinton could seriously damage Hillary's receiving the Democratic nomination in '08. If it gets too close, Hil could always drop out, citing her presidential candidacy ambitions.
0 Replies
 
kelticwizard
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Aug, 2005 09:37 pm
Re: BBB
JustWonders wrote:
Bush made it clear in the '98 race that he planned to run for president in 2000. Gary Mauro couldn't use the "he won't be around" tag because everyone already knew it. And...Bush still won 68-31 Smile

And do you have any polls where Texans in 1998 were asked if they think the Governor should serve out his full term if elected?

It wouldn't surprise me if it was about 30 percent or so. Didn't make much difference, did it?

The issue that you are so breathlessly enthusiastic about is a non-starter. I have seen it happen many times that a candidate who is mentioned as presidential candidate runs for a lesser office, his opponent tries to bring up the "not finishing the term" issue, and it never goes anywhere. I don't think I have ever seen an election where it became a factor.

Can you name one?
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Aug, 2005 10:58 am
Since Pirro isn't the Republican candidate at this point, her impact on any Clinton campaign is ...
0 Replies
 
Dartagnan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Aug, 2005 11:08 am
Pirro's campaign is doomed because her hubby is so shady. And for those who's knees will jerk as soon as they read that sentence ("Yeah, but what about Slick Willy?")--the fact is that the NY voters knew about Bill a long time ago. And they like him.

Pirro's hubby, however, is fresh meat for the media.

I predict she won't even be nominated...
0 Replies
 
kelticwizard
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Aug, 2005 01:22 pm
LOL! I see Newsmax and the New York Post were typically on top of things a week ago....

Quote:
Report: Pirro Decides Not to Challenge Hillary[/b]

Westchester County District Attorney Jeanine Pirro has decided not to challenge Hillary Clinton for her Senate seat next year, GOP insiders tell the New York Post.

State Republican leaders had viewed Pirro as their strongest challenger to Clinton and were trying to persuade her to take on the former first lady, the Post noted.


Can't put anything past these guys, can you? Very Happy Very Happy
0 Replies
 
kelticwizard
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Aug, 2005 01:42 pm
Looks like Pirro is already stumbling coming out of the gate.

Latest NY Times article shows she gives different answers at different times on late term abortion.


NY Times wrote:
Clinton's Challenger Says She Opposes Late-Term Abortion


By PATRICK D. HEALY
Published: August 10, 2005


....But she has been asked about late-term abortion before - and given different answers.

According to documents provided by the Westchester Coalition for Legal Abortion, Ms. Pirro wrote, "I don't know," at the start of eight questions on the group's endorsement questionnaire in 2001 dealing with late-term abortion.

The questions asked whether Mrs. Pirro opposed a ban on the procedure or believed the term "partial-birth abortion" was a medical term or a rhetorical device invented by abortion opponents.

On the same day that she signed and returned that questionnaire, she returned another to Naral in which she took a different stand, opposing legislative bans on late-term abortion because they might harm a woman's health or life.

"Jeanine Pirro has no integrity left on the issue of abortion, as far as I'm concerned," said Catherine Lederer-Plaskett, the president of the Westchester coalition, an influential group in Ms. Pirro's home county.

Ms. Lederer-Plaskett said that when she asked Ms. Pirro about her responses of "I don't know," Ms. Pirro replied that a past president of the coalition had helped her wade through and answer the 60-odd abortion questions in her 1993 and 1997 races.

"Then Jeanine said, 'You know I'm pro-choice, so fill it in the way it should be,' " Ms. Lederer-Plaskett said. "It may sound like a school rule, but my filling in the questionnaire to make a person pro-choice is not acceptable," she continued. "This is not exactly an answer of integrity."

Yesterday, Ms. Pirro denied ever saying those words. The group's past president who was said to have aided Ms. Pirro, Polly Rothstein, said in an interview that she did not specifically remember helping Ms. Pirro.

"I wouldn't be surprised if I did help her, because I don't think officials like Jeanine are up on the current issues," Ms. Rothstein said. "I offered that help to other candidates as well."

Ms. Pirro said she wrote, "I don't know," next to a question on the 2001 form that asked whether "partial-birth abortion" was a medical term, and left the others blank.

"I wanted to think about it," Ms. Pirro said. "I was uneducated, and I knew that if I said yes, I would have gotten their endorsement. I took the principled position."

The coalition declined to endorse Ms. Pirro in her 2001 race for district attorney. The group had endorsed Ms. Pirro in her successful races in 1993 and 1997, when late-term abortion was not the high-profile issue it is now.

Also on the Westchester group's form, she skipped questions about her position on cloning to generate embryonic stem cells for research, as well as "conscience exemptions" for religious health institutions that do not want to provide birth control. An adviser said yesterday that she opposed cloning and supported a "conscience clause."....


Source.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Aug, 2005 02:03 pm
I saw Dick Morris speak yesterday, and it's his opinion that Pirro has a shot at beating Clinton based on the issue of Hillary running for the job of Prez in '08. He thinks the voters of NY will wise up and realize HC doesn't really want to be the junior Senator from NY, and really wants to be President. And that the only real difference between Pirro and Clinton is that Pirro will promise to serve her full term if elected, while Clinton will spend most of her time raising money and campaigning for President. So speaketh Dick.
0 Replies
 
kelticwizard
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Aug, 2005 02:25 pm
Did Dick give any examples where a famous candidate, mentioned as a possibility for higher office, ever ran into trouble because his opponent exploited the "doesn't want to finish the term" gambit?

I've seen a few such cases, the opponent tried to make something out of it, but it never hurt the more famous candidate. If Dick Morris wishes to give examples, I would like to hear them.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Aug, 2005 02:46 pm
kelticwizard wrote:
Did Dick give any examples where a famous candidate, mentioned as a possibility for higher office, ever ran into trouble because his opponent exploited the "doesn't want to finish the term" gambit?

I've seen a few such cases, the opponent tried to make something out of it, but it never hurt the more famous candidate. If Dick Morris wishes to give examples, I would like to hear them.


No.
0 Replies
 
kelticwizard
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Aug, 2005 02:47 pm
I think the reason it doesn't work is that voting basically comes down to how you feel about someone emotionally. Whether you come to like them by strict examination of all the issues, or you like them because of one or two issues, or you like them because of the way they look or talk, you will probably vote for one or the other because you do like them more than the opponent.

Talking about how the candidate will try to get a better office is making things more sophisticated than voters are prepared to be. People have a limited amount of time to make up their mind on these things, and most are not going to chart career paths for candidates. Besides, it takes all the emotional satisfaction out of the voting process.

About the only election I've come across-not that I study them, but certain races do make it into the news- where some of the voters were willing to play these involved sophisticated games was when William Weld ran against John Kerry for Senate in 1996.

Weld was a popular Republican, Kerry was a popular Democrat. Kerry was the incumbent Senator, Weld was the governor. There is some evidence that Kerry mght have gotten some voters to vote for him, even though they liked Weld a little better, because the voters knew that if Weld lost the Senate, they still had him for Governor plus Kerry as Senator. If they vote for Weld, they get him as Senator but not Kerry for anything.

But that was far cry from voting for someone you like less because you think they'll finish their term, while the guy you like more might not.
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Aug, 2005 02:55 pm
Whether she plans to run for the presidency or not Hillary will get my vote for senator. I doubt that the issue will have much bearing on the senate race.
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Aug, 2005 05:01 pm
kelticwizard wrote:
I think the reason it doesn't work is that voting basically comes down to how you feel about someone emotionally. Whether you come to like them by strict examination of all the issues, or you like them because of one or two issues, or you like them because of the way they look or talk, you will probably vote for one or the other because you do like them more than the opponent.

Talking about how the candidate will try to get a better office is making things more sophisticated than voters are prepared to be. People have a limited amount of time to make up their mind on these things, and most are not going to chart career paths for candidates. Besides, it takes all the emotional satisfaction out of the voting process.

About the only election I've come across-not that I study them, but certain races do make it into the news- where some of the voters were willing to play these involved sophisticated games was when William Weld ran against John Kerry for Senate in 1996.

Weld was a popular Republican, Kerry was a popular Democrat. Kerry was the incumbent Senator, Weld was the governor. There is some evidence that Kerry mght have gotten some voters to vote for him, even though they liked Weld a little better, because the voters knew that if Weld lost the Senate, they still had him for Governor plus Kerry as Senator. If they vote for Weld, they get him as Senator but not Kerry for anything.

But that was far cry from voting for someone you like less because you think they'll finish their term, while the guy you like more might not.


To clarify, I don't think that Pirro's forcing Hillary to admit her ambitions will cause her to win against Clinton. New Yorkers will most likely vote her in for a second Senate term, even knowing she won't be around for most of it.

What it could do is make the race much closer than Hillary would like, considering those ambitions. Much better to run against a candidate that she could crush at the polls, but I don't think that's the case with Pirro.

As far as voters choosing their candidates based on emotion, who knows? I can only speak personally and I pick according to who most closely mirrors my own political leanings and beliefs. I support having a strong, well-funded military. I believe that my country is right to have nuclear weapons and the freedom to develop technology that would allow us to defend ourselves from nuclear attack.

My vote would go to someone who is a strong supporter of the Second Amendment and someone who supports Israel and their right to protect and defend themselves. I'm pro-life, I believe in capitalism, free-trade and low taxes. I believe that people should earn what they get through working for it and keep what they earn. Productivity and success, in my humble opinion, should never be punished through taxes.

I could never vote for someone like Hillary, but I am excited that Jeannine Pirro will force her to take and explain her positions on a wide range of issues. Whatever Hil says now will be noted and may come back to haunt her in her bid for president in '08.
0 Replies
 
kelticwizard
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Aug, 2005 08:53 pm
JustWonders wrote:

To clarify, I don't think that Pirro's forcing Hillary to admit her ambitions will cause her to win against Clinton. New Yorkers will most likely vote her in for a second Senate term, even knowing she won't be around for most of it.

I don't think it will be necessary for her to quit the Senate to run for Pres. Who knows how well this Presidential bid, if she makes one, will last? One or two primaries and she could be out of the running.

JustWonders wrote:
What it [possibility of running for Pres] could do is make the race much closer than Hillary would like, considering those ambitions.

All I can say is that ever since I could read or understand newscasts on TV, I have been seeing underdogs make charges that the favorites really only want the office as a steppingstone to something higher. And on Election Night, when the analysts come on, I don't ever, ever recall any race where the steppingstone charge ever made a race close or caused an upset. There are always upsets, but because the underdog showed charisma or found an issue that connected with the voters-never because of the steppingstone issue. I have never heard an analyst say that "Jones made traction against Smith when he accused him of using the state senator's position only as a steppingstone to the Governor's Mansion".

If Pirro actually makes this race close using the steppingstone issue as it's central theme, then it will be the first time that I have ever seen it do any candidate one bit of good.


Just Wonders wrote:
Much better to run against a candidate that she could crush at the polls, but I don't think that's the case with Pirro.
Pirro could be good, Pirro could be terrible. I don't believe she has ever run for legislative office before, or perhaps not even any office. She has already stumbled in a speech in New York, (more on that later), so for right now there is no reason to rule out a Clinton landslide. But Pirro may prove to be good candidate after all.


JustWonders wrote:
As far as voters choosing their candidates based on emotion, who knows? I can only speak personally and I pick according to who most closely mirrors my own political leanings and beliefs.
That is probably the way a lot of many people vote. But would you say there is NO emotional connection to the candidate you vote for on Election Day? You may come to like them because they mirror your beliefs, but don't you eventually come to like them personally?

I do.


JustWonders wrote:
I support having a strong, well-funded military. I believe that my country is right to have nuclear weapons...
What politician doesn't?

JustWonders wrote:
....and the freedom to develop technology that would allow us to defend ourselves from nuclear attack.

Star Wars? Don't know how big that would play in New York State, even allowing that upstate New York is more conservative than the city.

JustWonders wrote:
My vote would go to someone who is a strong supporter of the Second Amendment
Again, I don't know how big gun control is in New York State. Upstate New York is full of hunters. I do not even know where Pirro stands on it. It didn't hurt Hillary last time, anyhow.

No doubt, we'll see a picture in the news this fall with a smiling Hillary dressed in khaki, holding a rifle in one hand and a lifeless duck in the other. Something to look forward to.

JustWonders wrote:
....and someone who supports Israel and their right to protect and defend themselves.
Hillary made a gaffe some years ago at a luncheon she attended in the Mideast, kissing the wife of an anti Israel Arab politico on the cheek. Much was made of it for a week or so. Actually, it was more like the New York Post made much of it for a week or so.

Aside from that, though, Hillary has positioned herself so close to Israel that I understand she is considering changing her name to Hillelry.

JustWonders wrote:
I'm pro-life,
Both Pirro and Clinton are pro choice, the only difference being a nuance in late term abortions-both are for them under certain conditions.

JustWonders wrote:
I believe in capitalism, free-trade and low taxes. I believe that people should earn what they get through working for it and keep what they earn. Productivity and success, in my humble opinion, should never be punished through taxes.
But people are also for balanced budgets and keeping Social Security. Which means that many people think that taxes should be as high as they need to be to prevent continual deficits leading to a higher national debt, leading to a greater percentage of your budget required to pay off the interest on the national debt, leading to less of the budget being devoted to necessay services, leading to new deficits in the budget, leading to even higher national debt, leading to the interest payment on the national debt becoming larger, leading to even less percentage of the budget being used to pay for government services, leading to an even bigger deficit in the new budget, leading to the national debt becoming even bigger.....etc etc.

JustWonders wrote:
I could never vote for someone like Hillary, but I am excited that Jeannine Pirro will force her to take and explain her positions on a wide range of issues.
As Tico and the articles have pointed out, Pirro is considered possibly tough because she is on the same side of so many issues as Mrs Clinton. So on many of the tihings you have listed here, you would be no happier with Pirro than with Mrs Clinton.

JustWonders wrote:
Whatever Hil says now will be noted and may come back to haunt her in her bid for president in '08.
But that would be true whichever candidate Hillary runs against. I don't understand why Pirro, who agrees with Clinton on many issues, would be effective for the role of "exposer". How can Pirro "expose" someone she agrees with on the issue? And if the issue she plans to "expose" Hillary on is the steppingstone issue, well, good luck getting mileage out of that one. Nobody has yet.
0 Replies
 
kelticwizard
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Aug, 2005 11:22 pm
Pirro's off to a bad start. In her kickoff speech in Manhattan, she stands silent for 32 seconds while she looks for page 10 of her speech. This is in addition to the late term abortion controversy, which her Republican primary opponent is already exploiting. Two problems in the first two days after she announces. Not looking good.


Quote:
Vote for me because...
uh, where's page 10?

Shaky Pirro freezes up in 1st campaign speech [/b]

BY GREG SMITH in New York
and JOE MAHONEY in Albany
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITERS


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v645/kelticwizard100/Pirro.jpg
Jeanine Pirro, after stopping for half-minute in middle of speech declaring her Senate run, reaches for copy of speech containing missing page.



It may have been a hot day in the dead of August, but Jeanine Pirro froze up.
On the first official day of her U.S. Senate campaign, the Westchester district attorney was slamming Sen. Hillary Clinton in Manhattan when she suddenly stopped reading from her prepared comments.

"Where's page 10?" Pirro finally asked after going silent for 32 seconds.

And that was before she came up empty when asked to explain how her support of President Bush's permanent tax cuts would affect the federal deficit.

"This is my first day," the GOP Senate hopeful apologized. "I'll get you the exact figure of the deficit later."

When Pirro did get to elaborate during appearances in Manhattan and Albany, though, the theme was the same: Clinton has failed New Yorkers, yet wants to win reelection next year as a springboard to a White House run in 2008.

"Hillary Clinton has shortchanged New York," she said. "She hasn't delivered, and she will find out that the people of New York have not forgotten her empty promises."

Pirro's shaky start was mocked by state Democratic Party boss Denny Farrell, who said it shows "she may not be able to take on her primary opponents, let alone Sen. Hillary Clinton. The speech was long on attacks and literally silent on specifics for New Yorkers."

At several points, Pirro had to explain her newly evolved stance against so-called partial-birth abortion, saying she'd support it only when a mother's life was endangered.

The camp of Ed Cox, one of Pirro's GOP rivals, branded her a flip-flopper for having suggested in 2001 that she was not opposed to the form of late-term abortion.

Said Cox campaign spokesman Tom Basile: "On Monday, Ms. Pirro claimed to be 'blue.' On Tuesday, she claimed to be 'red.' Republicans and Conservatives should look at this flip-flop and ask, 'What is she going to be tomorrow?'"

Pirro's backing of a ban on the late-term abortion procedure helps make her more palatable to the state Conservative Party, whose support she is seeking to strengthen her underdog candidacy.

Breaking ranks with the Bush administration, Pirro said she favors embryonic stem cell research and argued the federal ban on assault weapons should not have been allowed to expire.
Source.
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

Obama '08? - Discussion by sozobe
Let's get rid of the Electoral College - Discussion by Robert Gentel
McCain's VP: - Discussion by Cycloptichorn
Food Stamp Turkeys - Discussion by H2O MAN
The 2008 Democrat Convention - Discussion by Lash
McCain is blowing his election chances. - Discussion by McGentrix
Snowdon is a dummy - Discussion by cicerone imposter
TEA PARTY TO AMERICA: NOW WHAT?! - Discussion by farmerman
 
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.03 seconds on 10/18/2024 at 02:33:49