14
   

The Crack that Lets the Light In

 
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2022 10:24 am
@Ragman,
Ragman wrote:

We’ll all be long gone before all of that other doomsday crap happens. Man-made earthbound problems will make us extinct before the solar system blinks out. Doubtful that we have more than a few hundred years…maybe 500 or so before we collapse and die off.

I’m such a ray of sunshine, I know. Point is that it’s all a matter of dubious academic value as to how the universe blinks out as we’ll all be long gone…even if we transplant ourselves somehow or somewhere else.

All of these debates keep theoretical astrophysicists employed. He’ll, we can’t even agree on global warming and what to do about it, if anything could be done to delay or stop the inevitable.


My guess is that gazillions of civilizations more peaceful and more scientifically advanced than ours have already gone extinct throughout this thing we humans call the universe.

It is not beyond the bounds of reason to suppose that the extinction of humans (or other evolving civilizations like ours) will be looked on by many other evolving civilizations as a net positive for existence rather than a net negative. We are, as some science-fiction stories have suggested, a kind of virus on existence.

Gotta enjoy what we have right now while we have it. And see if we can become "better"...whatever that truly means.

0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2022 01:35 pm
@Ragman,
We could do it but the current political will has to be overridden and the good of the people and environment put first. Right now I don't see the kind of uprising it will take gaining much traction. People are too easily buffaloed and mollified by promises that are never kept by people with the power to act. We somehow keep clowns running things when men of vision and resolve are required.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2022 05:02 pm
@Ragman,
@edgarblythe,
We’ll all be long gone before all of that other doomsday crap happens. Man-made earthbound problems will make us extinct before the solar system blinks out.

The point I was making was that this illustration of how the universe works illustrates that we are not important in the scheme of things.
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 May, 2022 08:03 am
An interesting video, despite some theatrics.
0 Replies
 
Ragman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 May, 2022 11:28 am
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:

The point I was making was that this illustration of how the universe works illustrates that we are not important in the scheme of things.

Ain’t that the truth! We’re (earthlings) are planet killers. However, humanity keeps a headlong rush to extinction through its selfishness. Will there be enough motivated humans left to seed another hospitable planet/solar system and make that a priority? Whether or not it’s practical to do with enough people is another issue entirely.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Jun, 2022 12:45 pm
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Thu 2 Jun, 2022 04:36 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Im not sure where you want to wind up, but my atheism is based on a lack of any kind of observable evidence from which theism or even agnostic theism can be concluded.
without a god' is a ;ifestyle choice that is stronglt supported by evedine and science,

all these stories about divine intercession are usually sworn to by one individual who, seems to extend the story hes been handed,

show some factual evidence that sacred writing is even worth consideration.
Im agnostic in myworldview, but atheistic when it coms to actual belief.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Jun, 2022 04:40 pm
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:

Im not sure where you want to wind up, but my atheism is based on a lack of any kind of observable evidence from which theism or even agnostic theism can be concluded.
without a god' is a ;ifestyle choice that is stronglt supported by evedine and science,

all these stories about divine intercession are usually sworn to by one individual who, seems to extend the story hes been handed,

show some factual evidence that sacred writing is even worth consideration.
Im agnostic in myworldview, but atheistic when it coms to actual belief.


Not sure what you are saying here, FM.

Perhaps best if you tell me what you disagree with in MY take on the issue. Here it is again:


I do not know if any GOD (or gods) exist or not;

I see no reason to suspect that gods cannot exist…that the existence of a GOD or gods is impossible;

I see no reason to suspect that at least one GOD must exist...that the existence of at least one GOD is needed to explain existence;

I do not see enough unambiguous evidence upon which to base a meaningful guess in either direction on whether any gods exist or not...so I don't.


(When I use the word "GOD or gods" here, I mean "The entity (or entities) responsible for the creation of what we humans call 'the physical universe'...IF SUCH AN ENTITY OR ENTITIES ACTUALLY EXIST.)

If there is anything there with which you disagree...or consider to be illogical...point it out and we can discuss it if you want.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Jun, 2022 04:45 pm
@Frank Apisa,
you. like me , live as an atheist but confess to a lack of knowledge on anny onclusion between the two .
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Jun, 2022 04:53 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
I do not see enough unambiguous evidence upon which to base a meaningful guess in either direction on whether any gods exist or not...so I don't.
Heres where we part some company. I am convinced that theevidence ofevolution, orin of life, and theoccurences on rt (like the 5 major extintions and13 or so minor ones do NOT support thepossible existence of gods.(Unless they are so transcendent so as to be useless in their own xistence. ANYWY, ere bot right, atheism, in its purest state i not areal belief statement its a choic to live"Without gods'
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Thu 2 Jun, 2022 05:55 pm
Atheism does not really have to be justified. In the absence of any magic whatsoever; in the light of science and common sense, it's the natural way to be.
Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Reply Thu 2 Jun, 2022 06:17 pm
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:

you. like me , live as an atheist but confess to a lack of knowledge on anny onclusion between the two .


I am not positive of what you mean by "live as an atheist"...but I suspect I do not.

As I see it, an atheist is someone who lacks a "belief" that any gods exist...and I certainly am one with that. I do, like you, lack a "belief" that any gods exist. However, I also lack a "belief" that no gods exist or that it is more likely that no gods exist than that at least one does. I, personally, do not know of any person using "atheist" as a personal descriptor who also lacks that "belief." EVERY person I have ever known who uses the descriptor "atheist" "believes" either that no gods exist...or that it is more likely that no gods exist than that at least one does.

If you are suggesting that I live my life as though I have one of those "beliefs"...I can only assure you that I do not.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Reply Thu 2 Jun, 2022 06:20 pm
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:

Quote:
I do not see enough unambiguous evidence upon which to base a meaningful guess in either direction on whether any gods exist or not...so I don't.
Heres where we part some company. I am convinced that theevidence ofevolution, orin of life, and theoccurences on rt (like the 5 major extintions and13 or so minor ones do NOT support thepossible existence of gods.(Unless they are so transcendent so as to be useless in their own xistence. ANYWY, ere bot right, atheism, in its purest state i not areal belief statement its a choic to live"Without gods'



We do part company there, FM.

I do not see that "the evidence of evolution, origins of life, nor any of those other things leads towards unambiguous evidence upon which I can make a meaningful guess in either direction.

If there are no gods...fine. Then that is the way nature goes.

If there is at least one god...also fine. Then that is the way the god decided nature would go.
Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Reply Thu 2 Jun, 2022 06:23 pm
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:

Atheism does not really have to be justified. In the absence of any magic whatsoever; in the light of science and common sense, it's the natural way to be.


Atheism does not have to be justified.

But the assertion, "There are no gods" DOES...just as the assertion, "There is a GOD" DOES.

I have never asserted that atheism has to be justified, but I have asserted that YOUR assertions that there are no gods...incur a burden of proof...which you have never provided.

(Edgar has me on IGNORE...so he does not have to reply to that comment. The comment stands nonetheless.)
0 Replies
 
Ragman
 
  2  
Reply Thu 2 Jun, 2022 07:22 pm
@edgarblythe,
All I have to say is … God bless the Atheists.
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Jun, 2022 07:59 pm
@Ragman,
Ragman wrote:

All I have to say is … God bless the Atheists.

I almost wrote "I fail to understand why atheism rankles people," but in fact I do know. It's based in the territorial bent of the human animal, just like war and racism. It feeds off the most elemental spark of self, an obsession that mostly cannot be educated away. Some have evolved enough to understand it. Others not.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Jun, 2022 08:45 pm
@Frank Apisa,
you havent spent 43 years in the field or the lab, your position is that you must dismiss educatio to maintainf aworldview,
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Jun, 2022 08:47 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
If there are no gods...fine. Then that is the way nature goes.

If there is at least one god...also fine. Then that is the way the god decided nature would go
thus there seems to be no need for a god either way.
Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Reply Fri 3 Jun, 2022 02:51 am
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:

you havent spent 43 years in the field or the lab, your position is that you must dismiss educatio to maintainf aworldview,


You are correct. I have NOT spent 43 years in the field or the lab.

But you are incorrect if you think I am dismissing education or the fruit of scientific research.

I am not doing that.

I am merely saying that when Edgar, or anyone else, says, "There are no gods"...all they are sharing is a blind guess about the truth. I say the same thing about anyone who says, "There is a GOD."

What do you see as wrong with that?
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Jun, 2022 02:54 am
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:

Ragman wrote:

All I have to say is … God bless the Atheists.

I almost wrote "I fail to understand why atheism rankles people," but in fact I do know. It's based in the territorial bent of the human animal, just like war and racism. It feeds off the most elemental spark of self, an obsession that mostly cannot be educated away. Some have evolved enough to understand it. Others not.


Most people I know are not rankled by atheism. Some atheists, YOU particularly, want to suggest they are being put on by others for their atheism. There is absolutely nothing wrong in my mind about anyone describing themselves as atheists...mostly because I do not give a damn about what anyone "believes" or guesses about the question, "Is there at least one GOD or are there no gods?"

But, if you want to continue being paranoid...I have nothing against that either.
0 Replies
 
 

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