The Crack that Lets the Light In

Anyone who denies that the assertion, "There are no gods" is nothing more than a blind guess...and who supposes it to be a result of logic, reason, science or math...

...should never feel they ought to be congratulated on their advanced cognizence.

Such a person is kidding him/herself every bit as much as a dedicated theist who insists, "There is a GOD."

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@edgarblythe,

edgarblythe wrote:

WE never believed in Santa Claus because we could easily see the neighbor kids with the piles of loot compared with our five and dime ****. We watched our Mom color the eggs. I was jaded by the time we got to the tooth fairy.

I believe living in such an elemental way drives one to either extreme, depending on whether one has a credulous mind. I was born into a family that followed the crops and parents who raised up feral children. We were not subjected to a good brainwash the way many children are.

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Lots of reasons for why people become devote theists or dedicated atheists. As Edgar points out, upbringing appears to be one of the big ones. Upbringing, and the other elements of early life, seem to impact on damn near everything. That seems to be a given…and I am as subject to it as anyone else.

There was a time when I was religious…or at least I had a “belief” there was a GOD…and that the GOD was the one the nuns in Sunday School taught about. At some point, I came to the realization that all of the “enlightenment” I had on the issue was built on speculation…my speculation, which was built on the speculation of others who taught me.

I ****-canned the whole thing…and decided to go with logic and reason. After lots and lots of effort and thought, I realized I could not get even close to a “Yes, there is a GOD” or “No, there are no gods” using logic, reason, or science. So, I decided that, “beats the hell out of me” made the most sense.

It was a very satisfying stance…even though I knew immediately that the people who chose “Yes, there is a GOD” or “No, there are no gods” had one big advantage over me. They had a 50/50 chance of having guessed correctly.
Now, on occasions I will make such a guess. I do it with a coin-flip for the occasional discussion where it helps move things along.

The anger sent my way by people who guess one way or the other because I point out that either position IS a guess (when coming from an intelligent person) mystifies me. The fact that it is a guess is as plain as the nose on one’s face…so why would an intelligent person take umbrage at it being pointed out?

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@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

The fact that it is a guess is as plain as the nose on one’s face…so why would an intelligent person take umbrage at it being pointed out?

That's a very good question, Frank. My question is: "Who the hell cares if there is or isn't a god?" How does it matter? And why does it matter?

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@Mame,

Mame wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

The fact that it is a guess is as plain as the nose on one’s face…so why would an intelligent person take umbrage at it being pointed out?

That's a very good question, Frank. My question is: "Who the hell cares if there is or isn't a god?" How does it matter? And why does it matter?

I imagine many theists have a response for those questions, Mame, but their responses leave me cold and make very little sense for me. (I'm guessing for you also.)

A question I have often put to some theists (which are related to your questions) is: "If you feel a compulsion to guess there is a GOD...why on Earth would you want to guess further that the GOD is anything like that GOD of the Bible?"

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@Ragman,

There should be a holiday called perhaps "No God Day." Or designate a month non belief month.

Ragman wrote:

I’m an agnostic so I’m being bold by my self-inflicted spouting. I can’t know what is unknowable. I’m going to die eventually but seriously doubt I’ll ‘know’ anything after that because I’ll be busy being dead. After all, at that point I’ll be dead and without a body. What will be left to have any impact without a body is unknown. Electrical impulses without any cohesion. Hmmmm!?

I refuse all the handwringing and “god-botherers”. Not my cup of tea. Only trouble I see is Agnostic and Atheists have no holidays…yet!

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I went to some quote sites today for atheist quotes. They all were depressing. I prefer personal anecdotes and chat over the heavy stuff these days.

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@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

If you are, you, as with Edgar, are merely asserting a guess...just like our currently militant theists are asserting their guesses that a GOD exists.

I know I'm going way out on a limb here – I believe the tooth fairy is a fictional construct!

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Reading over other atheism threads I see most who identify enough to post about it are no longer here.

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I'm an atheist. That's the way I was raised. If God exists, where is his brain?

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@edgarblythe,

Maybe they’re smited by an angry God!

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@Yalow,

Good to hear from you, Yalow.

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@Ragman,

Ragman wrote:

Maybe they’re smited by an angry God!

They likely just got bored. Smile

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@hightor,

hightor wrote:

Quote:
If you are, you, as with Edgar, are merely asserting a guess...just like our currently militant theists are asserting their guesses that a GOD exists.

I know I'm going way out on a limb here – I believe the tooth fairy is a fictional construct!

Yeah. But I did not ask you about that. I asked if you are asserting that there are no gods.

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Betty Crocker is a fictional construct. Uncle Sam is a fictional construct. And even though he's depicted here, Wolley Segap is a fictional construct.

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@hightor,

hightor wrote:

Betty Crocker is a fictional construct. Uncle Sam is a fictional construct. And even though he's depicted here, Wolley Segap is a fictional construct.

Are you asserting that there are no gods, Hightor. If you are, you are merely sharing a blind guess about the REALITY.

Using a descriptor rather than actually stating a position is the problem.

Here is my position on the question:

I do not know if any GOD (or gods) exist or not;
I see no reason to suspect that gods cannot exist…that the existence of a GOD or gods is impossible;
I see no reason to suspect that at least one GOD must exist...that the existence of at least one GOD is needed to explain existence;
I do not see enough unambiguous evidence upon which to base a meaningful guess in either direction on whether any gods exist or not...so I don't.

(When I use the word "GOD or gods" here, I mean "The entity (or entities) responsible for the creation of what we humans call 'the physical universe'...IF SUCH AN ENTITY OR ENTITIES ACTUALLY EXIST.)

If you are not willing to state your position, will you at least say what there is about my position with which you disagree...or with which you cannot comfortably agree? And, of course, if you have any questions about my position, please ask. I'll be happy to explain anything you want.

But I would much rather you share your opinion...your take...in an unambiguous way...so I can question you about it.

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Superman is a fictional construct. I think Clark Kent is as well! Another "blind guess"!

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@ascribbler,

That Peters and Lee song you posted haxn't aged well.

Hard to believe, but it's even shittier now than it was back then.

Anyway thanks for reminding us why punk rock was so desperately needed.

Talking Of which the Pistols are rereleasing God Save The Queen for the Platinum jubilee.

Let's make in number 1.

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When confronted with my atheism it has ceased to amaze me that some become hysterical with fear and loathing. The earliest instance was my Aunt L------. She did her best to persecute me the rest of her life. Why they become so dead set against allowing atheism is rooted in their own insecurities. If they can allow me to even think I am right their own edifice might cave and they would be left naked in their own mortality. I feel sorry for the ones like my aunt.

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@edgarblythe,

Quote:

Why they become so dead set against allowing atheism is rooted in their own insecurities.

Yea! We see the same thing in any Christian forum you wish to enter, you will find insecure atheists there, Haunting those forums, desperately trying to convert believers over to their Godless religion, in their futile attempt to defend their hopeless belief, that there is no greater lifeform than they in this eternal cosmos and that the death of their body in which they, the minds have developed within those bodies, is the end of their existence.

Hopelessness to the extreme, how I pity those poor souls.

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