13
   

The Crack that Lets the Light In

 
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Oct, 2022 11:24 am
Been reading today that some scientists have decided there really is a lake of liquid water on Mars. Sounds to me like this is where rovers or whatever should be going next.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Oct, 2022 11:26 am
@edgarblythe,
We've got water here.
0 Replies
 
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Oct, 2022 06:54 pm
@ascribbler,
Quote:
Is secular humanism naught but anthropic chauvinism?

They can’t decide whether to place us in the lowest or highest place in the scheme of things. I think it depends on the mood they’re in that day.
hightor
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Oct, 2022 05:21 am
@Leadfoot,
Quote:
They can’t decide whether to place us in the lowest or highest place in the scheme of things.

It's not necessarily a hierarchical distinction. It's a recognition that our evolutionary advantages confer on us a responsibility from which other animals are excluded. I've never read any secular humanist who claimed humans were the lowest place in the scheme of things. Have you?
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Oct, 2022 07:47 am
@Leadfoot,
I don't spend my time worrying about it.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Oct, 2022 07:48 am
@hightor,
https://able2know.org/topic/569363-11#post-7257528

Or scroll back one page. Or read all of the humanist screeds on this website. If you don’t see it, you’re not looking.
0 Replies
 
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Oct, 2022 07:50 am
@edgarblythe,
Quote:
I don't spend my time worrying about it.

I spend most of my time thinking about it. Worrying, not so much.
hightor
 
  2  
Reply Sun 30 Oct, 2022 08:35 am
@Leadfoot,
Honestly, Leadfoot, I don't see it that way. Yeah, we were "dethroned" but in reality we were never the "crown of creation" to begin with. We're a remarkably successful product of natural evolutionary forces but I don't see that this success makes us the center of the universe or the lords of creation. On the other hand, it doesn't relegate us to the lowest place in the scheme of things either.
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Sun 30 Oct, 2022 08:39 am
@hightor,
The more I learn about many animals the less special we seem. At least they aren't decimating the entire planet of the means to survival.
0 Replies
 
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Oct, 2022 10:58 am
@hightor,
Quote:
I don't see that this success makes us the center of the universe or the lords of creation.

I definitely don’t see us as the lords of creation. This took something way more intelligent than us to create it.

What confounds me is that as a species, our ‘evolutionary/scientific advancement' has made us less able to recognize this obvious fact.

But otherwise, I see no real advancement in human thinking in the 5000 or so years since the invention of writing, which is really as far back as our knowledge of human thinking goes. We’ve accumulated more knowledge of course, but the minds themselves seem to be unchanged. Do you see any real change during that time?
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Oct, 2022 11:11 am
@Leadfoot,
Leadfoot wrote:

Quote:
I don't see that this success makes us the center of the universe or the lords of creation.

I definitely don’t see us as the lords of creation. This took something way more intelligent than us to create it.

What confounds me is that as a species, our ‘evolutionary/scientific advancement' has made us less able to recognize this obvious fact.


It is not an obvious fact at all it's your opinion.

That's all it is.

Your way of debating is dishonest, you need to do something about your use of English.

hightor
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Oct, 2022 02:07 pm
@Leadfoot,
Quote:
This took something way more intelligent than us to create it.

What confounds me is that as a species, our ‘evolutionary/scientific advancement' has made us less able to recognize this obvious fact.

That may have been the fault of a Creator that wasn't all that intelligent.

Quote:
We’ve accumulated more knowledge of course, but the minds themselves seem to be unchanged.

Surviving works of ancient literature tend to bear that out.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Nov, 2022 02:33 pm
@izzythepush,
Quote:
It is not an obvious fact at all it's your opinion.

That's all it is.

Your way of debating is dishonest, you need to do something about your use of English.

And, That is your opinion, and that is all it is.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Nov, 2022 02:35 pm
@Leadfoot,
We agree, not a fact to be seen, just a bunch of opinions.

Facts can be proven, you can't prove anything, just talk the hind leg off a bloody donkey.
0 Replies
 
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Nov, 2022 02:52 pm
@hightor,
Quote:
Leadfoot Quote:
This took something way more intelligent than us to create it.

What confounds me is that as a species, our ‘evolutionary/scientific advancement' has made us less able to recognize this obvious fact.

Hightor replied:
That may have been the fault of a Creator that wasn't all that intelligent.

I hate to keep harping on it but anyone able to grasp what a protein is ought to go on to the next obvious step and realize how exponentially more difficult it would be to conceive of it from scratch, and on and on..

But to your point, I don’t think he wanted it to be that obvious, and like you said, history shows that to be the case. I don’t know why there are so few exceptions and why I should be one. I’m not exceptionally intelligent or anything.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Nov, 2022 03:47 pm
@Leadfoot,
You've told us how you've come to your opinion.

But opinion, even a reasoned one is not the same as a fact.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Nov, 2022 03:59 pm
@Leadfoot,
Quote:
...I don’t think he wanted it to be that obvious...


As in bestowing the illusion of "free will" on hapless subjects and semi-conscious automatons! Practical joke-ster from way back!
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Nov, 2022 06:28 pm
@hightor,
Quote:
As in bestowing the illusion of "free will" on hapless subjects and semi-conscious automatons!
Claim a limitation, and it’s yours.

-Richard Bach, 'Illusions'
hightor
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Nov, 2022 07:16 pm
@Leadfoot,
Very Happy
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Nov, 2022 09:46 am
@hightor,
You had no choice but to laugh, did you.
 

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