Should we handle victory the way the Christian god decrees?

Pardon me for jumping in, but I have a question.

Implicator wrote:

Well don't just stop there, Frank … there is a whole lot more to Eden then you are sharing. This god then sends his son as payment for the sin that Adam committed in the garden, and that became part of the nature of all of us (according to this story). The *thrust* of Eden (since you have changed the rules, I will now adopt the new ones) was to be the first step in a demonstration of his love whereby he sends this son to pay for the sins these people committed. The fact that Jesus dies a terrible death at the hands of the murderous elite of the day is (according to the new rules) irrelevant, because the *thrust* of this god's sending his son was an action of love.

Did God really say that? Sure sounds like a strange way to show love, torturing your son and all in a sacrifice to yourself. You are just trying to mess with us. right?

mesquite wrote:

Pardon me for jumping in, but I have a question.

Implicator wrote:

Well don’t just stop there, Frank … there is a whole lot more to Eden then you are sharing. This god then sends his son as payment for the sin that Adam committed in the garden, and that became part of the nature of all of us (according to this story). The *thrust* of Eden (since you have changed the rules, I will now adopt the new ones) was to be the first step in a demonstration of his love whereby he sends this son to pay for the sins these people committed. The fact that Jesus dies a terrible death at the hands of the murderous elite of the day is (according to the new rules) irrelevant, because the *thrust* of this god’s sending his son was an action of love.

Did God really say that? Sure sounds like a strange way to show love, torturing your son and all in a sacrifice to yourself. You are just trying to mess with us. right?

The very concept of sin comes from the bible. Christianity offers to solve a problem of its own making! Would you be thankful to a person who cut you with a knife in order to sell you a bandage?
Dan Barker
Losing Faith in Faith

P

Pat myself on the back? What for? I've had a great professional career, and I've been retired since 1998, and enjoying my life with world travel. I don't need to prove anything to anybody - especially you and your ilk.

Your christianity is showing by "...you might break your arm..." How christian of you! LOL

Pat myself on the back? What for? I've had a great professional career, and I've been retired since 1998, and enjoying my life with world travel. I don't need to prove anything to anybody - especially you and your ilk.

Your christianity is showing by "...you might break your arm..." How christian of you! LOL

The concept of sin does not come from the bible. It comes from man. Christianity did not make the problem. It tried to solve it. Sorry, but your knife/bandage analogy doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Many modern translators prefer the straightforward sin. In English, this is the oldest of the three words, from the Old English syn and dating to c. 825. It has cognates in other Germanic languages and it may be related to the Latin sons, meaning guilty.

There is a belief that sin derives from some archery term meaning to miss the target. This tale stems from confusion and misunderstanding of preachers giving Sunday sermons. The English word sin has no such etymology. The Greek hamartia, however, can literally mean to fall short or miss, especially in the archery context. Preachers sometimes use this Greek etymology as a sermon illustration and people confuse it with the etymology of the English word. The sermon illustration, however, is somewhat flawed. By the time of Christ the archery sense of hamartia was obsolete, so the sermon illustration is anachronistic. To Christ and his contemporaries it would simply mean a violation of God's law.

Intrepid wrote:

The concept of sin does not come from the bible. It comes from man. Christianity did not make the problem. It tried to solve it. Sorry, but your knife/bandage analogy doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Define sin.

P

Pauligirl wrote:

Intrepid wrote:

The concept of sin does not come from the bible. It comes from man. Christianity did not make the problem. It tried to solve it. Sorry, but your knife/bandage analogy doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Define sin.

P

Sin is estrangement from God. Now before you go all fluttery and claim that you were right about the bible.... Adam and Eve commited the first sin against God. Therefore, man created the sin. The bible only records the event for us. The bible did not create it.

Intrepid wrote:

Pauligirl wrote:

Intrepid wrote:

The concept of sin does not come from the bible. It comes from man. Christianity did not make the problem. It tried to solve it. Sorry, but your knife/bandage analogy doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Define sin.

P

Sin is estrangement from God. Now before you go all fluttery and claim that you were right about the bible.... Adam and Eve commited the first sin against God. Therefore, man created the sin. The bible only records the event for us. The bible did not create it.

The concept of sin most certainly does come from the bible. Without God and the bible, there would be no sin --under your definition.
P

Pauligirl wrote:

Intrepid wrote:

Pauligirl wrote:

Intrepid wrote:

The concept of sin does not come from the bible. It comes from man. Christianity did not make the problem. It tried to solve it. Sorry, but your knife/bandage analogy doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Define sin.

P

Sin is estrangement from God. Now before you go all fluttery and claim that you were right about the bible.... Adam and Eve commited the first sin against God. Therefore, man created the sin. The bible only records the event for us. The bible did not create it.

The concept of sin most certainly does come from the bible. Without God and the bible, there would be no sin --under your definition.
P

If there was no bible, the sin would still be there. A book does not make sin. God would still be God if there was no bible.

Intrepid wrote:

Pauligirl wrote:

Intrepid wrote:

Pauligirl wrote:

Intrepid wrote:

The concept of sin does not come from the bible. It comes from man. Christianity did not make the problem. It tried to solve it. Sorry, but your knife/bandage analogy doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Define sin.

P

Sin is estrangement from God. Now before you go all fluttery and claim that you were right about the bible.... Adam and Eve commited the first sin against God. Therefore, man created the sin. The bible only records the event for us. The bible did not create it.

The concept of sin most certainly does come from the bible. Without God and the bible, there would be no sin --under your definition.
P

If there was no bible, the sin would still be there. A book does not make sin. God would still be God if there was no bible.

You're missing the point. It's a Christian concept. Without God and the bible, there would be no sin --under your definition.
P

Frank Apisa Wrote:

Quote:

I thank you from the bottom of my heart for asking this, Endymion. Please do read my response through carefully. There are lots of points in this reply to your questions that I would love for you to give special consideration.



Much of this give and take nonsense with these people is indeed frustrating, Endymion...I freely acknowledge that. But this is a war that has to be fought.

Religion...superstition...is a cancer growing in the human evolutionary body. If it is not excised...it will kill that evolution...stop it in its tracks...like Implicator brags he is here to stop me and this thread in its tracks.

It simply has to be fought.

I derive as much pleasure as possible from everything I do. This give and take with these good folk is no different...and I have simply trained myself to deal with the frustration. Fact is, "dealing with the frustration" has become a direct source of pleasure and delight for me. One lesson among many, if you will, on how to deal with life.

In any case, while I recognize...as you do...that they have been indoctrinated and brainwashed...that they are operating from blind, numbing (and unfortunately, unrecognized) fear...and that, in a sense, they are not listening because they don't want to hear...I look past all that.

Mark my words well...(and this is the reason that their pastors, ministers, priests and rabbi would counsel them to avoid sites like A2K's religion forum)...

...there is a part of them that cannot tune out what is being said and raised here.

No matter how indoctrinated, brainwashed and fear-driven...there is a level of consciousness in them that IS listening...is learning...is processing...and is assimilating everything being pointed out here.

All of this stuff is brewing deep inside them...and eventually, for most of them, it will percolate through to their conscious brains. (I often tell them that I hope that the epiphany does not come while they are repairing a roof...or defusing a bomb...because more than likely, it will stagger them.)

Like a fly sitting on a table about to be swatted and not realizing it already is dead...they are already changed, but just don't know it yet.

Never give up this good fight, Endymion.

Keep coming back at them.

Do not allow the frustration to defeat you. Put it to better use. Allow it to become an opportunity for growth in this area.

Sorry to have any part of what I've said here sound like a lecture. I'd be preaching to the choir if I did that to you. I'm sure you realize that much of what I've had to say here is not entirely directed toward you...but is part of the subliminal operations in which I am engaged.

A lot of the times I am amazed at the posts on these threads. Sometimes I am even amused. This one? Whew. Frank, are you on a crusade here or what?

Seems to me you might be getting awfully close to that fanaticism (in the opposite direction of course) that you accuse of Christians of.

Indoctrinated? Brainwashed? Fear-driven? Who in the world are you talking about? Frank, you make such judgements.

Frank, we don't need you as our savior. We already have one.

Frank Apisa wrote:

Intrepid wrote:

Your challenge has been met and exceeded, Frank. You asked for passages and you got passages. Now you want to extend the passage to include the entire chapter.

You should stop pretending that your challenge has not been met. It has.

Live with it.

So far you two have come up with one woman getting pregnant...as your example of the god of the Bible being all those good things you say it is.

You wanted to pass off the "garden of Eden" and the "Noah" fiascos as examples of it being decent...but that is too laughable for words. In the first case...Adam and Eve were set up for a fall...and the god punished the entire of humanity for their naive error. In the second...the god slaughtered every last human and animal on the planet except for Noah, his family, and the animals on his ark.

You two are too silly to take seriously.

You grow tiresome, Frank. Go back and read what you asked and what you were given. You got what you asked for. Don't make it something that it is not. Your childish barbs are just an example of your lack of convincing argument on anything that you write. You are drowning in your own self importance. You are in the real world now, Frank. This is not Abuzz.

mesquite wrote:

Pardon me for jumping in, but I have a question.

Implicator wrote:

Well don't just stop there, Frank … there is a whole lot more to Eden then you are sharing. This god then sends his son as payment for the sin that Adam committed in the garden, and that became part of the nature of all of us (according to this story). The *thrust* of Eden (since you have changed the rules, I will now adopt the new ones) was to be the first step in a demonstration of his love whereby he sends this son to pay for the sins these people committed. The fact that Jesus dies a terrible death at the hands of the murderous elite of the day is (according to the new rules) irrelevant, because the *thrust* of this god's sending his son was an action of love.

Did God really say that? Sure sounds like a strange way to show love, torturing your son and all in a sacrifice to yourself. You are just trying to mess with us. right?

The very concept of sin comes from the bible. Christianity offers to solve a problem of its own making! Would you be thankful to a person who cut you with a knife in order to sell you a bandage?
Dan Barker
Losing Faith in Faith

P