Should we handle victory the way the Christian god decrees?

Here is a recollection of mine... some babblings... I am hoping this recollection of thought will lead to some "reflection" between your own soul and spirit.

It is about a particular journey into my own "self".

I was in my early twenties. This was after my re-conversion back to Christianity... We are not just born again and suddenly boop! We know all the answers. This is how some "Christians" are...

A person newly born again person has no more Christian character than a person not born again. The newly born again person though now has a source with which to grow and change the mind. It is the inner person/image that is changed at the new "birth"...

As you can see when writing about the Bible, I write in a critical form. Meaning, I break down every possible constituent and draw conclusions from the simplest of components. Also, looking at the scope of things shows a verity to my methods.

Back to my story...
So when my mind began to become filled with all of these "Christian" concepts, I did not really know what to do with them. I did not know how to quantify or qualify them, categorize them, organize them into a pattern that would be easily mentally retrievable yet make some sort of sense as a whole.

I am sure but I think there are not too may Christians who spend their time wondering how they are going to organize Christianity in their mind... Words like faith, righteousness, charity, temperance, spirit, and of course, demon, etc... I called these "Bible Words". They and many others seemed to have originated from the Bible and were discussed in minute detail. I wanted a road map in my mind...

In my high school days I had an uncanny mind for memorizing things...

It started with musical lyrics from songs and my own writing... Then it went out into things like my English prepositions of which I have never met a person who still has their prepositions memorized... I still do... Then there came geometry. I loved geometry. It represented the height of all mental processes. It had both left and right brain perfectly balanced.

Geometry is reason and logic but it is also rule and order.

So I set about memorizing my assumptions, theorems, corollaries etc... I got in one year so proficient at it that the teacher would no longer call on me until the entire class was stumped... Of course I had an A+ in geometry. Half way through geometry I switched to another school and took up the second half of my geometry in a private school and they did not even know how to formulate a proof... let alone have their geometry memorized.

How does this all relate to the Bible? Well having a mind that has a reason for every statement and considers this progression of thought out to it's complete or exhaustive conclusions, I sought this same process in biblical thought. I wanted to find the image of God... the blueprint, the outline of creation.

Was God a square? Was God a triangle? Was God Pi? The myriad of possibilities in 3d and 2d patterns in nature were boggling... But I was relentless to find it. I just assumed God would leave us a map to understand these words like "love"... To understand the "maiden clothed with the sun and the moon at her feet"... So the zodiac was a contender for this "map" I was searching for.

I also seriously considered the periodic table of elements... When I laid this table over the Bible it seemed to fit..

This table was a natural gradient of all "created" elements... I wondered if there was a message in the periodic table... That somehow love was hydrogen... and all other forms of love were refined in the elements going from solids to vapors... For a time this seemed to answer it... But I felt unsure and this model did not answer things like the crucifixion, redemption of mankind and it's display all of the dynamics of the scope relating to the total Christian experience.

So I scraped the periodic table idea... I had not yet found the answer I was searching for.

I was not really even sure what I was searching for... A visual representation, a map, a diagram, a matrix, possibly an array of sets and subsets that would place in my mind all of the concepts of compassion and pity, greed and envy, charity, kindness and goodness...

So all of these concepts just seemed to swirl around in my mind and have no real place to logically attach themselves.

I am not sure how but one day it clicked in my head and I figured it out...

The image I sought was the human body.. not a triangle or square, not the periodic table of elements or the zodiac...

That in understanding the human body one sees the grand "map" of how God relates to us. We can readily attach these biblical allegorical concepts to the human body and it interfaces with the story perfectly.

This was when I realized the inner person. A person totally separate from the outer person.

I was imagining a periodic table inside of myself... Suddenly this table became a living functioning human being.

I then saw this inner person in the Bible's teachings... This was why I got A's in college psychology.

The Bible taught me psychology. Who knows the human mind better than God?

Ephesians 1:18
The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

Comment:
Does your "understanding" have literal eyes? Your head has eyes and you face has eyes but does your understanding have "eyes"?


Ephesians 3:16
That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;

Ephesians 4:24
And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Colossians 3:10
And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

Romans 8:27
And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

Romans 12:2
And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Comment:
This inner man is the spirit of Christ. This "inner" person has feet that need to be "conditioned" to be able to run... a heart and stamina to compete in the arena of the mind. This "inner" person needs to have hands to perform mechanical spiritual exercises and to heal...

loins = commitment center of the will.
heart = believing center of the will
feet = action center of the will

All of this preformed in unison by the inner person...

The inner person complete in commitment, faith and action. The inner person is "perfect". This inner person is who we "should" identify ourselves with... When we learn from the virtues of the inner person then our "minds" are taught. As our minds through truth become what it contemplates and understands the outer soul is then nourished by the inner spirit.

It is amazing how most people are so unknowledgeable about some of the simplest aspects of Christianity. When Christianity is laid out simply to them... and it is simple... they are perplexed. Because they are so used to perceiving the external reality of the soul that the internal reality of the spirit seems foreign...

If you were a halfway honest person, foxfyre, you would not need to distort what people say. To the best of my knowledge I have not mentioned blaming God and the Christian faith for policy decisions by George Bush that I disagree with at any time on a message board. It would be rather foolish of me to place blame on what I consider to be a fictional character.

I have been highly critical of George Bush's manipulation of the Christian faith to gain political support. That is not the same as blaming "the Christian faith" for it is a very diverse group and many that identify with the Christian faith are as disapproving of GB as I am. In fact there are many right here on A2K as you well know.

Mesquite,

Well, then I am obviously doing the same thing you say Foxfyre is doing because from some of your posts, it sounds exactly like you are blaming the Christian faith and/or God. Perhaps you are not intending to. Perhaps we are misreading. I will have to keep close watch and make sure that I keep in mind you are saying you aren't doing that.

I still just don't get how anyone that is a non-Christian can judge whether another person is manipulating, following, etc. the Christian faith. If you don't believe in it, how can you fully understand it enough to judge someone else? I am very curious about this.

I have to agree with Mesquite here. I have not been critical of Christians per se, only that George B. does seem to be using Christianity for his own political agendas. Do any of you who profess to be Christian actually read what is coming out about GWB and his cronies? Maybe you should stop waving the flag long enough to begin developing an awareness that all is not right in America. America is about globalization. Just a new word for imperialism. If some countries, like Latin America for instance, don't want McDonald's -why should they have it shoved down their throats? Who gives America the right to overthrow an elected president in Latin America (as they have done many times) and put in an American puppet? What George B. did in Iraq should stir the ire of any true Christian. Just because these people are Muslim should not make them less important. I hear terms from some Christians - 'rag head', 'sand nigger', I find this objectionable. These are human beings, created by God. How can a true Christian stand with an AK-47 and shoot a defenceless woman or child in Iraq? And that is precisely what is happening. Just because Americans don't see that on CNN, Fox, etc (so much for free speech eh) doesn't mean it isn't happening. The propaganda machine works well in America. They know darn well that if Americans saw what is occurring they would be out in the streets protesting. No, it is not Christian to carry a sword, gun, or any device to kill. Jesus never said that and no one can twist his words to mean anything differerent. He said 'Love one another" not "Kill one another". Pretty plain.

Englishmajor,

Our troops are not shooting defenseless woman and children.

And no one should use any kind of derogatory term on anyone, Christian or not!

I would think if our soldiers were killing women and children the media would be jumping all over it, just like they do everything else negative they can find.

It's so sad that our beloved troops are being labeled just like our Viet Nam vets were. It's too sad for words.

Momma Angel,

I just pulled this off the web in a flash; there are many, many more articles of the same nature. I'm not trying to use any derogatory terms. What was derogatory? The media in America are not free to publish/say what they want to. Haven't you heard? It's all part of the propaganda machine, and it works very well. All part of Homeland Security, which is after taking away all the freedoms my ancestors fought for in the Revolutionary War. If you want to challenge this article or debunk it, please find something that will testify to the contrary.

The soldiers call it 'collateral damage', (maybe you have heard that word on TV?) a nice way to say some ordinary Iraqi people got killed by, ummm...accident. Yes, Momma, they DO kill innocent women and children. Open your eyes! Please! If enough Christians begin to protest this horrible war perhaps your voices will be heard. I can paste more articles of the same nature if you like. Let me know, if it will help convince you. What do you think they do with those AK-47's and bombs? And yes, I have relatives in Iraq as well, who don't want to be there. They have seen what goes on and it's sickening. Time to end a senseless war and bring those young men home. That's what should be shouted from the rooftops!

US Troops Kill Seven Women and Children at Checkpoint
By Rupert Cornwell
Independent
April 1, 2003

American troops shot and killed seven Iraqi women and children yesterday when the van in which they were travelling failed to obey orders to halt at a checkpoint near the city of Najaf in southern Iraq. Hours later, US Marines killed another Iraqi civilian at another roadblock. His passenger was seriously wounded. The man's pickup truck was riddled with bullets after it sped towards an Allied roadblock on the main highway outside the southern town of Shatra today. Pentagon officials said the seven dead near Najaf were among 13 women and children in the vehicle. Soldiers first fired warning shots into the air, and then into the engine of the van, but failed to bring it to a halt.

"As a last resort the soldiers fired into the passenger compartment of the vehicle. Inside they found 13 women and children. Seven of the occupants were dead," a spokesman said. Two others were wounded, while the remaining four were huddled in the van, uninjured. "Initial reports indicate the soldiers responded in accordance with the rules of engagement to protect themselves. In light of recent terrorist attacks by the Iraqi regime, the soldiers exercised considerable restraint to avoid the unnecessary loss of life, " the spokesman said. An investigation was under way, he added.

The incident is exactly the kind the US and Britain most wished to avoid in a war in which the manner of victory is as important as victory itself. But it bears out grim predictions that such tragedies are all but inevitable when jumpy local coalition commanders decide to take no chances. Precisely that happened in Najaf at the weekend, when a taxi turned into a suicide car bomb as it was being examined at a checkpoint, and four US soldiers were killed. The Iraqi government delivered a chilling warning immediately after that attack that it had at least 4,000 volunteer martyrs lined up ready to give their lives in the struggle against American and British invaders.

Since then, even stricter precautions have been in force - possibly leading to the killing of the seven women and children. Fears of suicide attacks on other British or American targets were heightened last night after a pick-up truck carrying extra cans of petrol smashed into the main gatepost of the British embassy in Iran and burst into flames, three days after the embassy was besieged by anti-war protesters.

The cause of the incident, in which the driver died, was being investigated the Foreign Office said. There were no casualties among embassy staff, many of whom live within the compound in central Tehran. The small pick-up truck hit the wall close to the embassy's main gates around 10:15pm (1945BST) and burst into flames. "It's improbable that this was a suicide attack, but the case needs more investigation," said Ali Taala, general director of security and political affairs at Tehran's governor's office.

I keep reading George Bush and Christian together in many, many posts. I assume that you are referring to American Christians when you put the two together.

George Bush does not represent Christians outside of the United States. To generalize Christians with what you think, or do not think of George Bush is unfair to Christians, Non-Americans and indeed, GWB himself. I realize that most of you are American, but those of us outsiders are being painted with the same brush.

If the reason that our Prime Minister stayed out of the war was that he is a Christian, would that we a discussion of a different sort against Christians?

I think it is reasonable to assume that American Christians are being discussed, since GWB is an American Christian.

The fact that GWB believes he talks to God should be of concern to Christians esp. in America, don't you think? The fact that his talking with God results in more deaths of innocent people should be of concern as well. We all know by now that there were no WMD's, and the Administration knew that before they went in. Preemptive war was something Hitler used too.

GWB using God for political manipulation is nothing new. Rasputin did the same thing (the mystic monk) in Russia.

BTW I'm just glad that our PM did keep out of this particular war.

However, I am awaiting Momma Angel's response to my article regarding her comment that no women or children were/are killed by American soldiers in Iraq. Would someone please elucidate for her??? I can't seem to get through. This type of delusion is what got Georgie re-elected!

It could be argued that the presence of multiple "brushes" might be an indicator of a failed religion.

I question the validity of the story, Englishmajor, but even if it is true, the soldiers were NOT shooting at women and children. They were shooting at a van who failed to obey orders to stop at a checkpoint. If you think our guys are not within their rights to defend themselves against the car bombs that have caused most of the deaths and injuries to our troops, then you'll just have to think that. Nobody in their right mind does think that however.

I am always amazed at the ways the press manipulates these headlines to make it the scene appear much different than it actually is.

If somebody the media favors saves a child by killing the rabid rottwieler who is attacking it, The headline reads: "Hero saves child from rabid beast." If somebody the madia doesn't favor does the same thing, the headline reads "Man kills family pet."

Its pretty much the same thing. Nobody played the "Christian" card more than Bill Clinton did, and I would guarantee that not one of you criticized him for it. But let George W. Bush whom you hate say anything even remotely religious and he is being 'manipulative'.

You'll please excuse me if I find this more than a bit of a double standard.

Englishmajor,

I wasn't saying that you said anything derogatory. You had mentioned about Christians calling someone a towel head or a rag head, I believe. That's what I was referring to.

And I am with Foxfyre on this. The way you had posted your statement, it sounded like our troops were out there shooting straight at innocent women and children.

A very good point. People are spending entirely too much time complaining about Bush's character. They're doing it because he's an easy target, or if you'd rather, he's easy to bully. The bully doesn't choose someone that is well liked, nor well spoken, for fear of being rebuked by others.

Bush is an easy target because he comes across as a blithering idiot every time he holds a press conference. This is easy to latch onto and use as an attack on his character. Bush is a professed christian, so when he gaffs it's used to attack his character.

There have been numerous other presidents with even larger monumental flaws. Kennedy had more women coming through the Oval office than an NFL cheerleading tryout, but he was intelligent and had the great fortune of being shot before his character could be called into question. Clinton had fewer, but managed to hang around long enough to become a punchline for every comedian for the next 3 years.

If you want to attack Bush for something, attack him for his lousy foreign policy. Leave his christianity out of this, especially those that don't believe themselves.

Amen to that!

Thank you Questioner. I agree that our President deserves criticism on several fronts, and he is justly receiving it. But when he is unjustly criticized, I'll stick up for him. I did it for Clinton too, though there wasn't as much opportunity.

It's difficult to do that given that he, and many of his followers, believe that his foreign policy is being directed by the voice of God.

Joe(No one in New Orleans heard the voice say "Build an Ark.)Nation

And some just say silly things because they desperately want to believe them.

Christians aren't guided by the voice of God?

God isn't on speaking terms with George?

Joe(and He walks with me, but keeps his peace.)Nation

Geez, Joe, to hear you talk it wouldn't be that hard to believe that you think anybody professing faith in God should not be allowed to vote--or go out in public unchaperoned even--much less run for public office.

No. I think those hearing voices should vote. I think they should run for office and hold office once elected and that they should be open and candid, as our former Attorney General was, about hearing the voice of the Lord telling him what to do. It ought to be a public pronouncement, freely shared and proudly publicized, no hiding such gifts under a bushel.

What say you?

and

I thought of you the other day. I lost my keys. I was on a run through Central Park in the midst of thousands of people and somehow my bag unzipped and the keys were tossed. In New York, more than other places, getting locked out on a Sunday is a very bad thing. Very bad. But I knew who to call and though it was a major inconvenience (and ruined completely my runner's high) I muddled through and got another set of keys made and got into my apartment.

Now, here's where I thought of you. Somewhere in the middle of the near heart attack I had looking into the empty pocket my brain said (literally) "I bet Foxfyre would think this is a message to me from God." and I said "No, this is just something that happens." So?

Did I miss the message? Or was it just in the Nature of things.

Joe(Yipes!! and I lost my lip sunscreen too)Nation