Philosophical Implications of Quantum Physics & Relativity

GitVon, WELCOME to A2K. Gotta think about this question before I add my .02c worth of opinion. c.i.

Git, don't you think that time is a uniquely human form of awareness?

As I think about it, our consciousness depends on our sense of time. It is vital to free will, law, experience and cognitive growth.

1. I do think time is a fundamental truth to human beings.

2. I'm not educated enough in philosophy to be able to say what other assumptions our belief system might rest on. One thought is the assumption of a soul or a higher being in a large part of the human race.

3. Being aware of our assumptions in order to critically analyze them is why we have and need philosophers.

4. Because our judicial system uses free will (premeditation) to determine the severity of a crime, it does exist for humans. If it is found to be an assumption, it would take away the foundation of society.

5. Without free will, our legal system would be useless. It would have to change to reflect a different motivation for crime.

6. To me, the absence of time would make experience impossible. Instinct would replace experience, or rote learning in the way a dog learns to heel.

7. Again, I can't imagine an ability to conceive of infinity without an innate sense of time.

I can hardly wait to see what real philosophers on a2k have to say about this.

Fascinating topic, Git.

Time is a human -conceived measurement of motion. Time is the only thing that doesn't move, so everything else can be in motion. Like space is the only thing that doesn't exist, so everything else, has room to exist in. Time and space are different expressions of the same thing....Neccessary nothing. It's just that simple.

Without time, we will have no frame of reference. Our future is based on what we have experienced in the past. We plan our future with some degree of confidence, and with the understanding that what we plan today for our tomorrows will have a benefit. c.i.

I notice you're just hatched Git....thought you'd start off light, before you went to a heavy subject, huh? WELCOME!

1) Time is a fundamental truth for diaries.
2) One assumption is that an individual is the real existence.
3) Through meditation.
4) Without time everything could be free will.
5) Legal system can be based on the assumption of the existence of free will, the assumtion is not refuted yet.
6) Without time concept, experience is winding description of events.
7) Without time infinity is here.

GitVonGat, what makes you think that time is "nonexistent" when most of us have personal experience of it?

1) Time is fundamental to physical processes from atomic reactions to the motion of planets, stars, and galaxies. Without change there is no time. The subjective experience of time requires the ability to remember past states and anticipate future ones. Biological clocks have been identified in fruit flies and other organisms, and DNA mutations can affect how fast they run.

2) Each belief system has its own assumptions. Since it would take quite some time to list them all, why not tell us which belief systems are of particular interest to you?

4) Yes, freewill can exist, provided there is not an omniscient god.

5) The legal system is ludicrous whether or not free will exists. An arbitrary amount of time in prison cannot absolve you of guilt or provide restitution to your victims, and I will never understand how criminals can "pay a debt to society" by doing absolutely nothing while we pay all of their living expenses and legal fees.

6) I can think of no explanation for experience if time does not exist. Where could our memories have come from if they were not recorded from actual experiences of other times and events? Did everything that we think we know just pop full blown into our minds, which also sprang into being out of nowhere and from nothing?

7) Infinity does not require time for growth. In fact, anything that grows from a finite source at a finite rate for a finite amount of time must also be finite. But it is possible that the universe has been infinite right from the beginning, and only the part that we can currently observe is or ever was finite.

Why shouldn't we be able to conceive of infinite sets? Just take the biggest set you can imagine and add units. :wink:

If you see a circular shadow on a wall, you might deduce that the object casting the shadow was a ball, but if the object casts another shadow on the floor, and that shadow is a triangle, you might deduce that the object was a cone.

Likdwise, Quantum physics and Relativity are merely shadows of something else which we cannot see. And to make matters worse, the shadows are imprefect, and can be cast in more than our normal number of dimensions.

Modern science, and indeed the human mind, produce models which we use to explain particular observed physical realities. The models are not reality themselves, but imperfect reflections, each distorted in its own sly way.

Some aspect of the thing we perceive as time exists, or most of our reality wouldn't exist, but we lack a perfect foundation from which to deduce absolute conditions and to make absolute assumptions. Because of this, I would say that concluding that time does not exist based on particular components of the models used, is stretching deduction a bit too far.

We have been trying to unify our models for years, but have yet to unify QED with Relativity. This implies that either one, or both models are incorrect to some degree. Both are very accurate to a point, but beyond that point, they begin to break down. I'm betting that both models are wrong in some way, and that we're missing something. Something big. Possibly a lot of big somethings...

"4) Yes, freewill can exist, provided there is not an omniscient god. "

My belief in a omniscient Creator and Free will comes from the idea that a creator gave up some of his soverienty for us.

Terry, Love your #4. It says it all for me. c.i.

I think Terry's #4 is a good joke.

Cinder, An omniscient god knows everything before they happen. Whether that can be considered "free will" is very questionable. In creating free will, god also created all of the negatives of this world. You can't have it both ways. It's either all or nothing. You can't blame satan, because god created him too. c.i.

Omnipotent God has the free will.

Thank you for your considerations.

I would like to try to make clear my position:

The only thing I am certain of is memory because it enables me to be aware of existence. The rest become stories resultant of compilations of personal experiences/information and a need to make sense out of them. The experiences create preferences (pleasure/pain continuum). The preferences create biases, prejudices, beliefs, assumptions, etc.

My desire is to play my part in developing pragmatic strategies to maximize pleasure and minimize pain. I believe that the pruning of assumptions can facilitate the success of such a goal.

With that being said, I am curious if you believe memory is an assumption and if so why. Also please state what you are fundamentally certain of.

Git,
...Are you sure about that memory? Ever see total recall? (heh-heh-heh)

Git, The only thing in our favor is living in a "free" country, and the opportunity to improve our standard of living. It's been my observation that it doesn't take a whole lot of brain power nor which college you earn your degree from that counts. Much of it depends on good luck, being at the right place at the right time, and taking advantage of all the opportunities that comes your way. A college degree and hard work goes a long way in providing for a decent lifestyle in the US - most of the time. Luck is also an important ingredient, but sometimes we bring luck upon ourselves. We control our destiny by how we prepare our lives for the future. Making the effort to earn a college degree usually improves the potential for a comfortable lifestyle for yourself and your family. How one manages their professional career is also important. Since I never was the sharpest pencil in school, I had to work twice as hard as the next guy to improve my chances for advancement. I went to work for Florsheim Shoe Company one week after my graduation from college as a field auditor in the seven western states. I was promoted to audit manager after three and a half years, and worked in management positions ever since until my retirement at 63. I also did consulting work for awhile. I'm now enjoying world travel two or three times a year, and I've now been retired for five years. Hard work pays off. c.i.

Okay C.I.,
...Ill keep this on file and we get an opening, I'll give you a call.

My friends and I used to debate, and discuss pre-destination vs. free will. My personal theory is pre-destination by logical sequence. Essentially that's; when you make a decision, it's the only possible one , based on your knowledge, intellect, and experience, and whatever circumstances, are prevalent

Actually, life is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're gonna get..... l c.i.