Talk about your various addictions here

Well, you think I should change it against on older photo from my drinking period 25 years back to compete with you?

I just read the entire thread and what a good discussion. Alcoholism and other addictions are also rampant in my family. I grew up with it most unpleasantly and have dealt with it on an ongoing basis my whole adult life. I once drank a lot but stopped short of crossing that invisible line into alcoholism. I have not a doubt in the world that line was out there for me, however, and it was close. It is a family disease and there is strong evidence that it can be hereditary though no gene has been conclusively identified to prove that.

To deal with my own demons and find some meaning to it all, I spent years in Al-Anon and took the training and became certified as an alcoholism counselor working mostly with families of alcoholics. (I do it strictly as a volunteer and I am not advocating any particular book, treatment center, or product here.)

Here are some thoughts after reading through the thread:

Nicotine is absolutely more addictive than alcohol. With a very few exceptions, pretty much one out of one people who regularly smoke cigarettes will become addicted to nicotine and will experience mild to extreme discomfort when they stop. Conversely, about one out of ten people who regularly drink alcohol will become alcoholic. (The odds go up considerably however if alcoholism runs strongly in your family.) There is no rule about how much alcohol it takes to become alcoholic and the invisible line is at different places for different people.

Alcoholism is a physical, mental, and spiritual malady that left untreated will generally lead to insanity and death if something else doesn't kill the person first. Alcohol abuse is the gateway and trigger for numerous other life-threatening diseases not the least of which can be various forms of cancer and destruction of the liver. Alcoholism produces a psychosis that clouds the person's mind and renders him/her incapable of seeing the reality of his/her condition for which s/he blames everything and everybody else. It is a progressive disease that proceeds with fits and starts, improvements and setbacks, but generally in a relentless downward spiral as the person's health deteriorates.

Andrew mentioned the 'bottom' and there can be numerous bottoms on the downward spiral. When he hits a bottom, the alcoholic does see and acknowledge (at least to himself) the reality of his situation, but the bottom doesn't last long--sometimes only a few minutes. Then the psychosis closes back in along with all the denial. The next bottom occurs further down the spiral.

Alcoholism is considered incurable, but it is definitely treatable. Tratment consists of providing emotional strength to not take that first drink. Some take to treatment better than others; some have an easier time of it than others. Treatment can consist of group work alone or can be a combination of hospitalization, counseling, drug therapy, etc. I have one dear friend who went through a 30-day threatment program seven times before it finally took. But it did finally take. He is now one of the most brillian alcoholism counselors I've ever known.

Families of alcoholics also often need help as it is a family disease affecting far more than the alcoholic alone. Untreated children of alcoholics are likely to become substance abusers themselves or will enter into relationships with potential or practicing addicts. Wives, parents, close friends will have their own demons to fight. The number one mistake most families make in dealing with an alcoholic is believing they don't need help to deal with the situation.

In my opinion, there are many substance abusers who are not addicts out there. These people can stop at will if they decide to stop even if they consume enormous amounts of alcohol, etc. But while all alcoholics must recognize their problem and participate in their own recovery, it is a very rare person who develops alcoholism and stops drinking without some kind of help.

Excellent post, foxfyre. Excellent.

Yes, thanks Foxfyre.

Thanks guys. I hope it was helpful to somebody. But it is you guys who have been there and done that who are the real experts when it comes to pointing others to the way out of the pit. Nobody else can do it as effectively.

Well, that's what they say, and it might be true.

Most important, however is in my opinion: a signpost shows only in the direction, gives perhaps even the best and shortest way - but you have to go there by yourself! :wink:

The thing is, Walter, we can demonstrate that it can be done -- that sobriety can be achieved. The problem is convincing the sufferer that this is a desirable condition to be in. I fought it for over 40 years.

Hmm, a content and satisfying sobriety.

People were looking at first a bit when we celebrated my wife's birthday with the Steve's last week in this surrounding



But without further talking about it, the owner's wife told her husband (the chef there) to cook my different courses without alcohol ... and I haven't laughed so much for months like at that night, with Orangina instead of grand cru's

today AA hispanic convention here in San Diego .. people from all over even across the international border to get togheter and share sobriety

Alcoholism can be treated - only by the drinker. They must first admit that they have a problem.

Walter writes


Is that you back there behind the table? I've often wondered about stuff cooked with wine or spirits.....doesn't the alcohol all get destroyed or evaporated by the heat? I suppose one of those rum soaked fruitcakes wouldn't be wise to eat. I should research that so I'll have a good answer in case somebody asks me.

It does, of course.

But actually, it's not -only- the chemical alcohol, which makes someone addicted: the smell, the remembrance of ... whatever related to alcohol etc etc 'works' as well.
(There haven't only been lot's of related scientific reports about this - I've often noticed such in my professional life.)

The Jewish Hospital Berlin is one of the leading institutions re food and alcohol. Unfortunately, none of their reports seem to be online but only printed.

Yeah, I've always told my counselees to enjoy the Chicken Marsala and not worry about it. Okay to take that sip of wine for communion too. But you're perfectly right. Unless there is a specific reason to be there, it's best for the recovering alcholic to stay away from things, people, and places that used to be a trigger, reason, or excuse to drink.

You get grape juice here for people like me (take a bit of talk with the priest, but is generally excepted - even in Catholic churches, where the communion is seldom given both with bread and wine).

I always believed giving up drinking or smoking was mind over matter. It is harder for some than others though.

I stopped smoking after about 37 years simply because I was bored with it more than anything else. The drinking was another thing.

I had been advised to cut back a number of times over the years during annual physicals. I didn't decide to stop altogether untils the doctor told me I had cirrhosis. That scared me so I just stopped with no fanfare. I had no physical reaction or nothing I just stopped. I realize many people cannot do this nor can they simply stop smoking mainly because their will power is such that it makes it impossible. That's all.

I visited an AA meeting once and I have to say I was not impressed. It would never have helped me a bit simply because I was irritated by the nonsense performance of some of the alcoholics.

Another myth, (I consider it a myth) is that once you are an alcoholic you are always recovering. That too me is pure B.S. in the case of most people. I know some of you reading this will say to yourselves: "Aha denial, sure sign of an alcoholic." I do not doubt there are relatively few extreme cases where an alcoholic indeed struggles with temptation each day, every day for the rest of his life but this is far from normal. I completely reject the idea that I am "recovering." Although I fit the arbitrary profile of an alcoholic i.e. the number of beers I drank per day, per week etc. etc. I truly believe I was a heavy drinker like many drinkers but not an infirmed alcoholic by any means.

I fully recovered from a long time malady just as sure as I did when the Basel Cell skin cancer was removed. Not a trace left.

True, I suffer permanent liver damage but that too has improved over the years from what it was. Mainly because I no longer drink and the liver is no longer burdened.

I believe many people sell themselves short simply resigning themselves to the fact that they must be alcoholics simply because someone has said so.

On the other hand I believe in any measure that works even if it involves hoodwink if it can convince someone to stop drinking. :wink:

Well, it really might be so as you say (re myth etc).

But unfortunately, facts are mostly different. (And I personally could oversee a few hundreds, if not thousands over the years.)

Jack Webbs, I really didn't undestand what addiction was until I tried to stop smoking when I was about 30 years old (that was 40 years ago). It took me three cold-turkey quits to really stop the habit. I can drink socially, and don't need a drink every day. As a matter of fact, when I worked I usually had a beer at lunch. I rarely do that any more except when I'm on vacation - I dirnk beer or wine with my meals. If my doc asked me to quit drinking, I believe I can quit cold-turkey without any problems. I know of some families whose children are alcoholics, and it's really hard on them. They attend Alanon regularly, but I'm not sure how much that helps after five - ten years of meetings.

Different strokes for diff'rent folks. For many alcoholics, the odor or taste of alcohol is enough to set off a craving for "the real stuff." That's why many avoid food cooked in wine or other alcohol and wouldn't dream of drinking a non-alcoholic beer, e.g. O'Doull's. This is not true for me. I have always loved the taste of beer, as opposed to its effect, and will frquently have a bottle of St. Pauli Girl N/A or a Clausthaler or similar when thirsty. It has never made me want to get something stronger. The same is true of good food well cooked with wine. I use cooking wine in my own cooking, the kind that's clearly marked "not for consumption as a beverage." It just makes food taste better; for me, it sets off no Pavlovian bells. And rum cake has no effect whatever.

But, that's me. I don't necessarily recommend this for other alcoholics, especially if they are unsure of the strength of their newly-found sobriety. It's a strange disease.

I enjoy O'Doul's for the very same reasons you do Merry Andrew.