Dealing with a Clam

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I always seem to choose men who clam up at the most annoying moments.
Example: I bring up something that is not acceptable to me, he clams up and acts all hurt.
We end up not seeing each other for a while because he won't talk about it, and I am now too pissed off to just carry on like usual. I refuse to snivel and whine to try and make him 'get it'. It seems to me he just runs away when it gets too uncomfy.

I don't know how to deal with this passive-aggressive crap.
I am assertive (read: sometimes aggressive) and I just say whatever I need to say.
I only bring up things that he could reasonably alter; and they are open to discussion.

Relationships require communicate and there are blips along the way.
I listen to his 'complaints'.
I love my bf, but I have thought of leaving him because of this.
It feels like he is continually disregarding my needs, because of his 'sensitivity'.
He says he likes that i'm a little aggressive and 'take charge', but I want him to stand up and work with me. I don't want to 'wear the pants' , I want a partnership that is equal.

Is there hope here, or am I trying to change a man stupidly?

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flushd,

You cannot change anyone as it is inevitably up to the person. However, you can influence their decision but regardless it remains up to the person to act accordingly.

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Re: Dealing with a Clam

flushd wrote:

I always seem to choose men who clam up at the most annoying moments.
Example: I bring up something that is not acceptable to me, he clams up and acts all hurt.
We end up not seeing each other for a while because he won't talk about it, and I am now too pissed off to just carry on like usual. I refuse to snivel and whine to try and make him 'get it'. It seems to me he just runs away when it gets too uncomfy.

I don't know how to deal with this passive-aggressive crap.
I am assertive (read: sometimes aggressive) and I just say whatever I need to say.
I only bring up things that he could reasonably alter; and they are open to discussion.

Relationships require communicate and there are blips along the way.
I listen to his 'complaints'.
I love my bf, but I have thought of leaving him because of this.
It feels like he is continually disregarding my needs, because of his 'sensitivity'.
He says he likes that i'm a little aggressive and 'take charge', but I want him to stand up and work with me. I don't want to 'wear the pants' , I want a partnership that is equal.

Is there hope here, or am I trying to change a man stupidly?

Flush'd, you sound a lot like you could be my twin, bec. I, too, am assertive and "take charge," and yet, in a relationship with a guy, I like for him to exercise proper leadership (which means not domineering, but still "steering"). I want a captain-shepherd. I have dated the type of guy you're talking about, and they don't change, at least not that I've ever seen in my own experience or in the lives of friends/family where a guy like that is in the picture. Rolling Eyes

For some reason, often the non-leader type of guy gravitates toward our type. (Security? Laziness? "Opposites attract"?) But invariably, we get frustrated with their lethargy and they get frustrated with our "pushiness" or "demanding nature."

Have you noticed this?: The guys who're leaders are usually not cherishers (sigh...) and vice-versa. I have always wished there were a Guy-Depot type store, where you could buy all the parts (inside and out) for exactly the type of guy you want, then build-him-yourself. Razz

Short of that, I reckon it's just plain old "settle." It seems like the key is: no guy's going to be perfect, so as you look at guy X, are his positives a strong enough trade-off for his negatives? Also, can you live with the negatives "till death do you part"? (Bec. as an older married woman once told me, "the negatives you see now will only get magnified as you live with them day in, day out, year after year.")

As one of my guy buddies (a colleague and friend) used to say: "Marriage is not for the fainthearted." It's hard work, day in and day out, bec. there's the constant need to put the other person first. Question is: do you consider him worth it?

Dunno if any of this helps. Wish you the best as you try to resolve it. Smile

PS: I sublet a room for almost 7 years from a woman who was a case of me "to the 10th exponent" and her husband who was a soggy bowl of cornflakes. She had married him when she was still in the throes of depression about her first husband leaving her (with 3 little kids and no way of making a living). After another year or 2, the depression lifted, and then, she realized what a HUGE mistake she had made, but they're both committers, so they have stuck it out.

But let me tell you, every single day that I lived with them, I was sooooo thankful that I wasn't married. Their marriage was even worse than my parents'. She kept TRYING and TRYING to transform him into her image (even in her early 60's, when they had been married for almost 30 years), and he just kept digging in his heels more and more, and the more he did, the more she prodded. It was a HORRIBLE vicious circle. A mini-hell.

My point is, I'd hate to see you in that kind of condition.

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Have you noticed this?: The guys who're leaders are usually not cherishers (sigh...) and vice-versa. I have always wished there were a Guy-Depot type store, where you could buy all the parts (inside and out) for exactly the type of guy you want, then build-him-yourself.

Quote:

I HAVE noticed that! If only, if only !

Your post was very helpful.

I'm 26, and my mind moves more and more to how I'd love to have someone I could eventually marry, and have children with.

When you asked "could you live with the negatives til death do you part? Is he worth it?"
my mind screamed so I couldn't ignore it "NOOOO!!!"

ouch! that sucks.

........thanks so much

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Flush'd, 26 isn't "high time." I had a friend who didn't have her first till she was 42 (and both her kids're fine). To me, it's worth waiting and ferreting until you find the right kind of mate. I know it's not easy, but truly, it's worth it (look at the high rate of crashed marriages---and the devastating fall-out from all of it).

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...sigh...I know you are right.
Maybe I'm just getting the ants in my pants 'cause all my girlfriends are marrying off and having kids.
Talk about a lot of pressure. Oh, and my mum calls me like every day to ask when I'm going to give her a granbaby Laughing

Some people are relentless!

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Re: Dealing with a Clam

diagknowz wrote:

The guys who're leaders are usually not cherishers (sigh...) and vice-versa.

Oh don't say that pleeease don't say that Sad

And there was me hoping that at 18 i had insufficient experience to judge that for myself. *swears loudly*

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flushd wrote:

Maybe I'm just getting the ants in my pants 'cause all my girlfriends are marrying off and having kids.

Yah, I remember that phase, too, but then again, they were always tired, first, bec. they'd have to get up 2-3x/nite to breastfeed, and later, bec. the kids would have bad dreams or get sick; and they'd get mastitis [the moms, not the kids, LOL!], etc. etc. I thought, hmmmmnn, dunno if I really could hack all that.

flushd wrote:

Oh, and my mum calls me like every day to ask when I'm going to give her a granbaby

Yeeeeew, now THAT would be difficult to deal with. Rolling Eyes

I was fortunate that way, bec. my mom never did.

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Re: Dealing with a Clam

Bekaboo wrote:

diagknowz wrote:
The guys who're leaders are usually not cherishers (sigh...) and vice-versa.

Oh don't say that pleeease don't say that And there was me hoping that at 18 i had insufficient experience to judge that for myself. *swears loudly*

Well, miracles do happen, Bek. I was just talking about usually.

The important thing to remember about guys is *you cannot change them.* What you see is what you get. Too many women go into marriage with their eyes closed. The hardest thing to do when you're attracted to a guy emotionally and physically is to keep your head in the driver's seat. Don't let the heart and hormones cloud your judgment. Coolly assess *EVERY*thing they do/say or don't do/don't say. Their actions will speak louder than their words. For example, if he claims he wants to marry you, but he's still going out with/sleeping with other women, and doesn't have time for you to boot (whereas he's got plenty of time for the other women, his guy buddies, and his boss), then "Exit right!" Taking you for granted? Toss him! On the other hand, too possessive? Toss him!

Another tip: I found that staying at the platonic level for the first 3 months allows you to better assess him. I say 3 months bec. usually, infatuation lasts that long, max.

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I thought this would be the appropriate place to post an update of the situation, as it might shed light for someone in a similiar situation.

I decided to end the relationship. I did it the other night after a last-ditch attempt to resolve the issue.
In reality, it could not be resolved. He is who he is, and I am who I am.
The differences were too much, and I decided to move on.
I'm really surprised at what a relief it feels like to me. I don't feel sad as of yet. I feel a bit angry for wasting so much of my time knocking my head against a wall, but I know I did the right thing.
I feel less stressed now that I don't have to worry about him and the drama.
It's opened up space for me explore some parts of myself that I have been neglecting.
Today, I went for a jog and then had steak for breakfast. If he was around we would have been eating at another damn vegetarian restaurant. Very Happy

Thanks all!

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flushd--

Good for you.

Peer example and granny hunger aren't valid grounds for you selecting a mate.

Good for you.

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flushd wrote:

In reality, it could not be resolved. He is who he is, and I am who I am.

There ya go, Flush'd! That's looking the rhino right in the face! No matter how much we might feel drawn to a guy in some ways, if the big-picture compatibility is like 2 magnet North Poles, then it's better just to let it go.

flushd wrote:

I feel less stressed now that I don't have to worry about him and the drama.

That's a crucial issue: if the relationship is draining, then it's not healthy. I've always figured that if it's the right relationship, overall, it will energize, not wear you down.

flushd wrote:

If he was around we would have been eating at another damn vegetarian restaurant.

ROTFL! I'm with ya on that one! But even though we laugh, you're bringing up yet another important point: constantly having to make concessions and accommodating the other person. I risk the wrath of the males on this site by saying this, but in my own life, and looking around me, I've seen that it's usually the woman who's doing most of the conceding, compromising and accommodating. That's exhausting (not to mention unfair). Who needs it?

Flush'd, enjoy your newly-won peace and freedom. Over the years, I've found that nothing surpasses that!

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Thanks for all the support!! Very Happy

I am feeling fantastic. I feel more like my normal self again.

thanx again!

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I am a passive agressive and trust me...being so drives me nuts. I see myself acting like an a-hole and there my hubby is, trying to negotiate, trying to "talk me down". He is both a leader and a cherisher but he does tend to lean more toward the leader aspect most of the time. But usually once the scene is over, I will apologize and "come to my senses". I have been actively working on not being a complete crazy and actually have found out that a lot of this behavior is being caused by a medical reason. I don't know if this is something for you former man to look into but lots of times, emotional crap stems from physical crap. Something to think about.

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Bella Dea wrote:

He is both a leader and a cherisher.

Bek, see? Miracles do happen. :wink:

And Bella, I couldn't agree with you more about many of the emotional things stemming from the physical (take menopause, for example...<g>). Sometimes, it would be a relief just to hang the carcass in the closet and simply cavort around in Sheer Essence.

flushd wrote:

Quote:

I feel more like my normal self again.

Hooray, flushd! That is worth gold bullion right there! Long may it last!

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Some guys that are use to getting there way clam up.. I had this with my bf at one point. He wasn't like this when we first got together. But I think we both kept our mouths shut on a lot of things as we are both leaders and team players in our relationship and we were both being observant and then when we did decide to open our mouth in Jan. our debating conversations finally ended in June. Now we are getting along great again. I had been waiting for this day. We still have our communications and we have total different outlooks on some things. We aggervate each other but, if it's true love then it will be worth it and you both will be working with each other. You both will push each other's buttons from time to time but, in the end it's resolved at least for the most part. If it's not resolved at that moment because of him clamming up "if the issue" is resolved in the end. Then, it may be that he needs to have time to think about it. Some men take longer to think thru things then others. But if you bring something up to him and then he stomps off, slams the door, or pouts "because he didn't hear what he wanted or he didn't get his way" then it is time for him to grow up. Address him about it and the first issue to fixing the problem is admitting that you have the problem, and if he does that then it can work out. But if he denies it then I must say either get use to it and accept it or leave it alone and go forward. That's just what I think. But I don't have all the answers.

Best Regards,

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Thanks Bella for another perspective.
In his case, it is not medical. It is an aspect of his personality. It is one of his ways of coping and dealing with difficult situations.

Tess, thanks also for posting. Interesting situation you got. Glad things worked out for you two. I guess every relationship has its own dynamic and circumstances. Anyways, I needed to hear "some men just need longer to think about things". That rang true for me. Like I had said earlier, I am somewhat of an aggressive type that likes answers quickly. I am guilty of sometimes being impatient with him, unfairly.

I didn't want to start another thread, because I thought I could continue my junk here Laughing

I started going on 'dates' and loosing up , trying some space with myself.
I am really happy with it.
I have been dating a nice guy.
The weird thing is: since breaking up with D. (The Clam) , I have started to love him even more than before!
We have had a few 'running into each other' situations, mostly bc we have a lot of the same interests and some mutual circles. It is just "how are you doing? how is this project or that?"
I didn't notice this until very,very recently but it feels like we never break contact. We can not see each other for a long time (like what is happening now) and then carry on without missing a beat.
I think I just needed to get away from the 'weight' of it all. And I was probably pushing him too.
Regardless, it feels good knowing that there was and is love between us-even if it's not what I thought it should be.
The storm has passed, and we are still there for each other. It is a beautiful kind of thing for me: a true friend who is willing to let me go even when it's not what he wants, putting me first.

I don't want to get back together with him: He is a Clam ( things he needs to do, things I need to do).

I am just glad at the way things worked out.
I think I grew up a whole bunch more...gaaads....!!!
Even tho this post sounds like the ravings of a young girl. lol
Just needed to get it out without the commentary by the friends:)

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flushd,

I am very happy that things are working out for you and that you have found a space in your life and your heart that you can rejoice and enjoy the good times that you and your former beau shared. Being able to be friends is the nicest bonus of all.

It is not uncommon after a break up to suddenly or eventually feel the love you had once again. It is the being apart that brings to light the better qualities your mate had instead of focusing day in and day out on the negatives which were overwhelming you.

That realization was a huge step in the maturity of your emotions and you should be very proud of yourself. Smile

Now you can enjoy the times that the two of you do run into each other, without the awkwardness or frustration you might otherwise feel.

Instead of your heart sinking, it now has the wings to fly....

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Thank you, Lady J.

Your post made me feel really good. I appreciate you taking the time to send me those kind words Smile

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Re: Dealing with a Clam

flushd wrote:

I always seem to choose men who clam up at the most annoying moments.
Example: I bring up something that is not acceptable to me, he clams up and acts all hurt.
We end up not seeing each other for a while because he won't talk about it, and I am now too pissed off to just carry on like usual. I refuse to snivel and whine to try and make him 'get it'. It seems to me he just runs away when it gets too uncomfy.

I don't know how to deal with this passive-aggressive crap.
I am assertive (read: sometimes aggressive) and I just say whatever I need to say.
I only bring up things that he could reasonably alter; and they are open to discussion.

Relationships require communicate and there are blips along the way.
I listen to his 'complaints'.
I love my bf, but I have thought of leaving him because of this.
It feels like he is continually disregarding my needs, because of his 'sensitivity'.
He says he likes that i'm a little aggressive and 'take charge', but I want him to stand up and work with me. I don't want to 'wear the pants' , I want a partnership that is equal.

Is there hope here, or am I trying to change a man stupidly?

if thats a big part of who he is, then he isn't going to change. you can't chnage someone else that much, it just isn't possible.

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Dealing with a Clam

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