Michael Moore Says Doc umentary Already Has HMOs Spooked

thank heavens for our NHS - it's a long way from perfect but at least it's free and we're all entitled. You can have private health care as well if you want to pay. It must be awful to have to worry about funding health care all the time.

If you didn't have any insurance what would happen?

He claimed that Bush ordered the Bin Laden family flown out of the US after 9-11,and before planes were allowed to start flying.
That is 100% FALSE.

Here is the truth...
http://www.bowlingfortruth.com/fahrenheit911/saudiflyaway.htm

"In May, Clarke confessed that he, and he alone made the decision to approve the flyouts. "

This is the same Richard Clarke that the left praised for his comments during the 9/11 commission hearings,the one that attacked Bush.
Now it comes out that HE ALONE made the decision,without consulting Bush in any way.

If they could come up with lawsuits like that, wouldn't the Enquirer have been shut down by now? Besides, I like watching Moore's movies, I like hearing all sides of the story, no matter how out there they may seem.

No, he didn't claim that Bush ordered the Bin Laden family flown out -- here is what was actually said for those who have never seen the movie and remain pathetically ignorant:

FAHRENHEIT 9/11: "The White House approved planes to pick up the bin Ladens and numerous other Saudis."

Fearing reprisals against Saudi nationals, the Saudi government asked for help in getting some of its citizens out of the country. National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States, Threats and Responses in 2001, Staff Statement No. 10, The Saudi Flights, p. 12; http://www.9-11commission.gov/hearings/
hearing10/staff_statement_10.pdf
"Now, what I recall is that I asked for flight manifests of everyone on board and all of those names need to be directly and individually vetted by the FBI before they were allowed to leave the country. And I also wanted the FBI to sign off even on the concept of Saudis being allowed to leave the country. And as I recall, all of that was done. It is true that members of the Bin Laden family were among those who left. We knew that at the time. I can't say much more in open session, but it was a conscious decision with complete review at the highest levels of the State Department and the FBI and the White House." Testimony of Richard Clarke, Former Counterterrorism Chief, National Security Council, before The Senate Judiciary Committee, September 3, 2003.
"I was making or coordinating a lot of decisions on 9/11 and the days immediately after. And I would love to be able to tell you who did it, who brought this proposal to me, but I don't know. Since you pressed me, the two possibilities that are most likely are either the Department of State, or the White House Chief of Staff's Office. But I don't know." Testimony of Richard A. Clarke before the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States, March 24, 2004.
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: "At least six private jets and nearly two dozen commercial planes carried the Saudis and the bin Ladens out of the U.S. after September 13th. In all, 142 Saudis, including 24 members of the bin Laden family, were allowed to leave the country."

NOTE: It should be noted that even though the film does not make the allegation, strong evidence has recently come to light that at least one private plane flew to pick up Saudi nationals while private flights were still grounded. Moreover, for nearly three years, the White House has denied that this flight existed. This was reported in the June 9, 2004 St. Petersburg Times article cited below.

After the airspace reopened, six chartered flights with 142 people,mostly Saudi Arabian nationals, departed from the United States between September 14 and 24. One flight, the so-called Bin Ladin flight, departed the United States on September 20 with 26 passengers, most of them relatives of Usama Bin Ladin. National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States, Threats and Responses in 2001, Staff Statement No. 10, The Saudi Flights, p. 12; http://www.9-11commission.gov/hearings/
hearing10/staff_statement_10.pdf
It should be noted that the US Customs and Border Protection document released by the Department of Homeland Security under the FOIA, Feb 24, 2004 lists 162 Saudi Nationals who flew out of the country between 9/11/2001 and 9/15/2001, departing from New York's Kennedy airport, Washington's Dulles, and Dallas Fort Worth. http://www.judicialwatch.org/archive/
2004/homelandsecurity.pdf.
For an official list of Saudi Passport holders (names redacted) who flew out of the country between 9.11.2001 - 9.15.2001, see US Customs and Border Protection document released by the Department of Homeland Security under the FOIA, Feb 24, 2004; http://www.judicialwatch.org/archive/
2004/homelandsecurity.pdf.
TheSt. Petersburg Times reported on Jun 9, 2004:
o "Two days after the Sept. 11 attacks, with most of the nation's air traffic still grounded, a small jet landed at Tampa International Airport, picked up three young Saudi men and left. The men, one of them thought to be a member of the Saudi royal family, were accompanied by a former FBI agent and a former Tampa police officer on the flight to Lexington, Ky. The Saudis then took another flight out of the country."

o Moreover: "For nearly three years, White House, aviation and law enforcement officials have insisted the flight never took place and have denied published reports and widespread Internet speculation about its purpose… The terrorism panel, better known as the 9/11 Commission, said in April that it knew of six chartered flights with 142 people aboard, mostly Saudis, that left the United States between Sept. 14 and 24, 2001. But it has said nothing about the Tampa flight… The 9/11 Commission, which has said the flights out of the United States were handled appropriately by the FBI, appears concerned with the handling of the Tampa flight.

o "Most of the aircraft allowed to fly in U.S. airspace on Sept. 13 were empty airliners being ferried from the airports where they made quick landings on Sept. 11. The reopening of the airspace included paid charter flights, but not private, nonrevenue flights." Jean Heller, "TIA now verifies flight of Saudis; The government has long denied that two days after the 9/11 attacks, the three were allowed to fly." St. Petersburg Times, June 9, 2004

The National Enquirer has been sued by those who believe they could win (there's absolutely no evidence that an event took place and they don't fear that some of the allegations might prove true).

It wouldn't be prudent to drag someone into court if, in fact, it would reveal the truth, now would it?

Better to let the wild anarchy of the internet blogs to take care of it, at least for those who are prone to emulating a bird in Australia.

Thanks for posting that up Lightwizard.

If there really are people out there who still haven't read Moores books, I urge you to do so.

Start with Stupid White Men.

Scary, I know. But the alternative is to remain ignorant.

I think "Dude, Where's My Country?" is his best book. Here in the UK, there are plenty of folks who envy the US their Mike Moore, a patriot willing to stand up for the people and reputation of a country he so obviously loves.

Or try "Will They Ever trust Us Again?" - Letters From The War Zone.
That one I could talk about for hours.
Not on this thread, though.

Peace,
Endy

Thanks LW.

I haven't been able to read any of his books yet. College life has my head stuck in anatomy books, but once that's done, I'll definitely be reading them!

I absolutely do not believe in all of Moore's tactics or some his editorializing within a documentary but that's his style. It's certainly better than the crap the opposition comes up with which is lies biled (sic) on lies to distort the end message. Dubya is in some serious political trouble right now and I doubt he's able to make it through his second term without being exposed and punished, one way or another. A dry drunk is a dry drunk and one-stepping by becoming a "born again Christian" is not going to cure his problem. I do pity him as he's a sick man but I do not condone those around him for facilitating his insidiousness. He's not a kind man, he's a blind man.

I only hope something can be done about the problems before this country gets into more hot water than we already are. North Korea is ready to talk, hopefully we're willing to talk and not attack.

It's so funny how the right wingers react to Michael Moore ever since he went after their beloved monkey president.

He could shoot film exposing the evils of necrophilia, and you just know that some of these idiots would argue that corpse-f*ckers are actually good for the economy.

LOL

I don't think I'd want to see that movie.

Now that would be an engrossing flick. Perhaps Bush might have a wardrobe malfunction with his cowboy drag and his left nut will be exposed. We'll finally know he has an exploding nut.

OK now I definitely don't want to see that LW. LOL Then again, maybe they would start getting off Clinton's back....

That would cause a stir if it weren't for the fact that he has really has no balls. He's all prick.

I think that the HMOs suck, but I wish that someone besides Moore was doing the film. I am not a fan of someone who editorializes in a documentary. As Sgt. Friday has said, "Just the facts, Ma'am! :wink:

Name a documentary where there isn't an opinion interjected into the presentation of basic facts. Try Cosmos, for instance. Carl Sagan offers a plethora of opinion. I can't think of anything more boring than a documentary with commentary that has no profile of opinion. Just the facts is for Joe Friday on Dragnet.

LW- It is just that Moore has such an obvious agenda. If there are opinions stated, they should be balanced, pro and con. If not, it is simply a propaganda film.

I think that overall, HMOs are awful. I have friends who love them. I would bet my last buck that Moore will have nothing positive to say about the HMOs, and there ARE positives.

Name what is "propaganda" in the films. If Moore were running for a government office, I could agree. I don't get this over-sensitivity to Moore, Al Franken and other pundits. The conservative pundits are now locked in argument over the very person Moore has satirized...George W. Bush. What is this namby-pamby "equally balanced" bullshit. If that were actually initiated, we'd have nothing but bores on film, on TV and in the rest of the media. The nightly major network news anchors are all bores.

In every argument, there are THREE sides; he said, she said, and the truth.

I don't look to the news for entertainment. I want hard facts, only. I don't want propaganda masquerading as hard news. It is up to me to hear the facts, and then interpret them to the best of my ability. Unfortunately, we don't get much unbiased news nowadays in the media. Everything is spin and slant, one way or the other.

Not true -- often what he said or what she said is actually the truth. Facts, by the way, sometimes to add up to the truth. We all have the right to our own conclusions. Moore has repeatedly stated that these are his conclusions and that he may be right or he may be wrong. It's the freedom to draw our own conclusions that's important. The end result, for me, is the Bush is an inept, warped and dangerous man.