Am I (and are you) a "liberal extremist" or an 'evil progressive"?

Just read this in the New Yorker and it reminds me of someone. Can't quite put my finger on who:

"Dostoyevsky’s novels are full of characters of this sort: gamblers who are more interested in losing than in winning, men who deliberately make fools of themselves when their reputations have become too pristine. In “Notes from Underground,” the narrator mocks the idea that humans seek only what is beneficial to them; a man, he insists, may “consciously, purposely, desire what is injurious to himself, what is stupid, very stupid—simply in order to have the right to desire for himself even what is very stupid and not to be bound by any obligation to desire what is only rational.” Sometimes the absence of an advantage is the point. We suffer deliberately to prove that we are not machines."


It explains anti-vaxxers to a tee.

They never think they'll win, they just want to throw the last gesture of defiance.

I don't know about that. I'm double vaccinated, but to me, if they don't want to be vaccinated - that is up to them, and they can live with the consequences.

And yes, I understand how diseases were essentially wiped out. Coronavirus doesn't look like it will be one of those diseases, given how quickly it is mutating, and how the new method of vaccination isn't as effective as the old method (not that they could get a vaccine working through the old method for Coronavirus).

I also have no issue with governments placing restrictions on unvaccinated persons, particularly if the % of unvaccinated is high, and particularly in very crowded places with captive audiences - aircraft, cruise liners, and stadiums come to mind.

That is to say, people have an obligation to the safety of society, but if they don't want to participate, restrictions in 'places where they pose the greatest risk' are a fair consequence.

I think Vikorr's post is pretty reasonable.

However, in free democracies the power of the government is fairly limited. The US mandates masks on airplanes in the military and I think in some government agencies. We have had various local restrictions on masks in businesses. For however much some people scream, it is extremely doubtful there will ever be a widespread vaccine mandate in the US. The government isn't that powerful, and in a Democracy people have rights even when exercising those rights have consequences.

My point is that there needs to be a balance between public safety and individual rights. Going too far to either extreme will have consequences.

Kind of like a "Mark of the Beast" kinda thing.

If it were a simple matter of 'take/don't take vaccines". But it's not. Refusing to take vaxx is jamming hospitals with Covid and killing people without Covid. If one's no vaxx attitude only affected them, I'd agree. Unfortunately it doesn't.

You are quite right that it is not a simple matter.

In any democracy there isn't a blanket right for government to enforce bodily invasions on people. There never has been. There shouldn't be now. There are risks that come with maintaining that freedom from governmental invasion of your body. There should also be consequnces for the refusal - for as you point out, it is those who refuse the vaccine that increase the risk.

Obesity is also jamming hospitals and killing people who aren't obese.

More people are in the hospital right now for heart disease than for covid.

Your whataboutism only shows what a crap matador you'd make.

If only obesity was caused by a communicable viral infection, there might be a reason you keep repeating that stupid thing over and over.

I am curious how obese people kill the non obese. Overloading airplanes? Falling on people? Eating all the food? Killing HWA people for more food?

You are making the ridiculous complaint that sick people are jamming up the hospital.

I am pointing out that it is silly to whine that there are sick people in the hospital. That is where sick people are supposed to go.

The fact that heart disease is mostly preventable doesn't change the fact that there are far more people in the hospital right now for heart disease than for any other cause.

Ridiculous? Hospitals are reporting this.

[Search domain thenewstribune.com] https://www.thenewstribune.com › news › coronavirus › article256559091.html
While both agreed hospitals are overloaded, though no longer because of COVID-19, officials with the Washington State Hospital Association blame current regulations over transfer of patients who ...
Hospital Surges May Be Deadly | NIH COVID-19 Research

[Search domain covid19.nih.gov] https://covid19.nih.gov › news-and-stories › hospital-surges-may-be-deadly
The researchers analyzed data from 150,000 people with COVID-19 at 558 hospitals from March to August of 2020. More than half of these patients arrived during surges. The researchers concluded that nearly 1 in 4 COVID-19 deaths among these 150,000 patients may have occurred as a result of hospitals being strained by COVID-19.
'A surge like we've not seen before': Inside the hospitals ...

[Search domain advisory.com] https://www.advisory.com › daily-briefing › 2021 › 08 › 06 › hospital-overload
According to CDC, the number of Americans hospitalized with Covid-19 has nearly quadrupled over the past month to almost 45,000. Four states—Florida, Georgia, Louisiana, and Mississippi—account for more than 40% of those hospitalizations. Fight burnout by integrating self-care into clinician workflow
Lessons From The COVID-19 Crisis: Overcrowding Hospitals ...

[Search domain gpb.org] https://www.gpb.org › news › shots-health-news › 2021 › 03 › 18 › lessons-the-covid-19-crisis-overcrowding-hospitals-cost-lives
Lessons From The COVID-19 Crisis: Overcrowding Hospitals Cost Lives Many hospitals, including Harbor-UCLA Medical Center in Torrance, Calif., reported reaching capacity in their ICUs during the winter surge in COVID-19 hospitalizations. These conditions, according to research, may have led to more deaths.
Hospitals Still Struggling With Covid Overload | Kaiser ...

[Search domain khn.org] https://khn.org › morning-breakout › hospitals-still-struggling-with-covid-overload
Hospitals Still Struggling With Covid Overload Colorado and other mountain states are still dealing with overwhelmed hospitals due to the high number of covid cases there. Amd California prepares...
Covid Overload: U.S. Hospitals Are Running Out of Beds for ...

[Search domain nytimes.com] https://www.nytimes.com › 2020 › 11 › 27 › health › covid-hospitals-overload.html
Nov 27, 2020Covid Overload: U.S. Hospitals Are Running Out of Beds for Patients As the coronavirus pandemic surges across the country, hospitals are facing a crisis-level shortage of beds and staff to provide...
Crowded conditions, overloaded services mark 'dire' COVID ...

[Search domain mlive.com] https://www.mlive.com › news › ann-arbor › 2021 › 12 › crowded-conditions-overloaded-services-mark-dire-covid-19-situation-at-michigan-medicine.html
Crowded conditions, overloaded services mark 'dire' COVID-19 situation at Michigan Medicine. Updated: Dec. 08, ... This is stretching the hospital way past normal bed capacity, said Dr. John ...
Covid-19 patients at this hospital are dying 'at a rate we ...

[Search domain cnn.com] https://www.cnn.com › 2021 › 12 › 09 › us › hospital-covid-19-deaths-michigan › index.html
5 days agoCovid-19 patients at this hospital are dying 'at a rate we've never seen die before' -- and it's taking a toll on health care workers. By Miguel Marquez and Holly Yan, CNN.
'Dire situation' with COVID-19: Topeka hospital overloaded ...

[Search domain msn.com] https://www.msn.com › en-us › news › us › dire-situation-with-covid-19-topeka-hospital-overloaded-diverting-ambulances › ar-AANEPpe
Israel's Bennett seeks US 'reset' in first White House visit Aug. 24—As COVID-19 continues to tear through Kansas, the leader of one Topeka hospital is describing the situation as "dire" with its...
COVID-19: Hospitals | Wisconsin Department of Health Services

[Search domain dhs.wisconsin.gov] https://www.dhs.wisconsin.gov › covid-19 › hosp-data.htm
The hospital capacity dashboard shows hospital-reported trends in the number of COVID-19 inpatients, including those who are in intensive care units (ICU). It also displays the use versus availability of hospital beds, ICU beds, and ventilators. Understanding and maintaining some availability of these key resources is critical at any time, but ...

I think we agree on the facts.

1. There are lots of people in the hospital who are sick with covid. Covid is a mostly preventable disease.

2. There are even more people in the hospital who are sick with heart disease. Heart disease is a mostly preventable disease.

Do you agree with both of these statements?

I'm not wasting my time responding to your non-responsive responses.

What about the starving children in Biafra?

Actially... you apparently are. I dont don't know why people post responses to a post to say they aren't going to respond. It's funny I guess.

The point is that your outrage isn't consistent.

If your anger was really about people in the hospital for preventable diseases, then obese people with heart disease would be the place to start.

1. What are some common or effective ways of preventing Covid?

2. What are some common or effective ways of preventing heart disease?

1. Vaccines, masking, social distancing, losing weight.

2. Exercise, losing weight, a low fat diet, preventative pharmaceuticals.

(Edit: obesity is a huge risk factor in covid, being skinny lowers your risk of death from covid by about 80%)

It's the anti vaxxers who are killing people. There are the infections and fatalities as a result.

Now theyhave ratcheted it up area, German police have arrested antivaxxers planning to murder the president of Saxony.

OMG! They are killling people! It is an OUTRAGE. Fast food restaurants. Sugary Soda. Non- Sugary Soda. Fertilizer. They are all KILLING PEOPLE!!!!

This is such an absurd exaggeration.

Just do not know how to do metaphors at all, do you? Fat people don't force you to eat sweets. Non vaxxers force you to be in the range of their filth.

If fucked metaphors is the best you can do, maybe you out to get back on Breitbart.

Everything is killing people.

- Climate Change is killing people.
- Modern Agriculture is killing people.
- Plastics are killing people.
- Republican Abortion laws are killing people.
- Dave Chappell using gendered pronouns is killing people.

It is absurd when every political issue is killing people. And yet people keep on living.