I am seeing my mother in a new light thats not flattering

I think you're right, shewolf. I think your mother has tried everything she knows how to try, and she's honestly done the best she can do. The problem is, your brother needs more than she can give.

I also have no doubt that this is causing her extreme grief, and her "denial" is simply a coping mechanism. She's trying to restore a modicum of "normality" to her life so she can think more clearly. I bet she goes to bed every night replaying scenarios of what she would do "if only."

These kinds of situations cause grief to everyone involved on multiple levels. My heart goes out to all of you.

((((HUGS))))

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Shewolf, your brother's story is tragic and on many levels I agree with Debra. The problem of the schizophrenia compounds his situation but like many adult schizophrenics he'll fall through the cracks of the system unless he can acknowledge his disease and get clean so that he can get treatment. Even then many schizophrenics stop taking their meds because they start to feel better and decide for themselves they no longer need them. The cycle repeats over and over.

It's hard to think of an 18 year old schizophrenic as an adult and therefore beyond the reach of his family to make decisions for him. Is he still in Ohio? The only thing I can think of is to try to get in touch with him and help convince him to turn himself into a treatment center. Maybe the available services are better in Ohio than New Mexico.

As far as talking to your mom about your upbringing and her parenting, I say go ahead and talk to her. It won't change the past but it will be good for you to air your feelings. Sure you were a handful, sure you were a rebel, but you were her daughter and you were cast out. Something tells me that you will move heaven and earth to help Bean through her adolescence. She will probably send you a few curve balls, and they'll be different ones than the ones you threw your mother, but I don't see you throwing you hands up in the air and telling her to make her way in the world when she's 14.

I'm currently in the midst of my girl's adolescence with a 13 year old and a 15 year old and I can tell you that I never imagined what parenting a teenager would be like. They rip your heart out one day and fill it with joy the next, only to rip it out again later that evening. It's a roller coaster like no other but still, I wouldn't miss it for the world and can't imagine sending them out into the world to figure it out for themselves. You're entitled to your mixed up feelings about your mom. You turned out great, but it came at a tremendous cost. In retrospect she might think she made the right decision because you came around in the end, but sometimes the ends do not justify the means.

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Eva-
my mom tells me alot of the time her 'what if wishes' What if i could... what if he could.. what if I had not.. what if I had.. what if he was......"
Beacuse of that communication we share, I know more then I think I should, but am completely aware that she is heart broken, distressed and JUST TIRED. The selfish child in me says"" Mommy should do more! That is what mommies DO .. more more more more."
The adult side of me now understands that to constantly DO DO DO takes away from your self and your spirit. A depleated parent is not effective no matter how hard they try.

JB
yeah, it is hard to know how to deal with people who have mental disorders. Where DO you call it quits? Schitzophrenia is one of the hardest because the person who is suffering usually thinks they are enlightned and that there ISNT a problem with them, there is a problem with the world and they are the only ones who know it. The enabling lines are blurred there when it comes to helping or hurting. Getting my brother to admit there is a problem only happens when he is coming off of drugs. The ' coming down' I think, is amplified because of his chemical imbalance. That is his most vulnerable moment. But it never lasts long enough to convince him to do anything about it.

I WANT to talk to my mother, but I dont think that I can do it effectivly because part of my motive is to save my brother when I cant. Im scared to death for him but am helpless to do anything. And I feel that if I can verbaly punish my mom for what I feel was a wrong decision , she will perform a mommy miracle on my brother and save him in the way I cant.
I cant seperate these feelings. Until then I cant talk to her. The things I would say would be unfair and just... mean. She doesnt deserve that.
I am coming from a superior standpoint.
Meaning.. I have it in my head that I would never do that to my child there for I need to berate her for doing it to me. Who the hell do I think I am?!
I dont know how to raise a teenager. How can I approach her like that? Do you see what I mean?

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Yes.

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There is an enormous difference between a fourteen year old and an eighteen year old.

You were neglected as a child and have every right to feel outraged about that.

Your brother is an adult who is not taking his meds, not showing up for work, blowing his money on drugs and your mother is both legally and practically helpless.

You can be heartbroken about your brother, but save your outrage for the wrongs you suffered.

Hold your dominion.

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Noddy24 wrote:

There is an enormous difference between a fourteen year old and an eighteen year old.

You were neglected as a child and have every right to feel outraged about that.

Your brother is an adult who is not taking his meds, not showing up for work, blowing his money on drugs and your mother is both legally and practically helpless.

You can be heartbroken about your brother, but save your outrage for the wrongs you suffered.

Hold your dominion.

Wow - that is very wise.

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shewolfnm wrote:

I WANT to talk to my mother, but I dont think that I can do it effectivly because part of my motive is to save my brother when I cant. Im scared to death for him but am helpless to do anything. And I feel that if I can verbaly punish my mom for what I feel was a wrong decision , she will perform a mommy miracle on my brother and save him in the way I cant.
I cant seperate these feelings. Until then I cant talk to her. The things I would say would be unfair and just... mean. She doesnt deserve that.
Quote:

wow, that is amazing insight into your own feelings. i am in awe. i really don't know what i think is good here. my brother in law was in a terrible accident about 6-7 years ago which rendered him "a little slow". now he isn't incapacitated by any means, but according to doctors his brain capacity is a little (and just a little) diminished. however, like i said before, he was stealing from his parents since the age of 14 and even pawned his parent's wedding rings. now, after his accident, he is just as bad, but blames everything on the accident even though he was doing it before hand (the drugs, stealing, etc). he guilts his parents into helping him (see earlier post) and he just continues and continues to get in trouble again and go back to jail (which kills his mom). even worse, after the accident he now has seizures which are intensified by his drug use. what to do?

his parents are the opposite of your mom...give him everything from a place to live (they rented and paid for an apartment for him), gave him a job (in the fam business), and put food on the table for him. what did he, go right back to his old ways.

unfortunately, people have to want a miracle to happen to them and help along the way. i wish there was some way either you or your mom could gain guardianship over him. and don't cry shewolf, you have some many things to be proud of (bean and the fact that you actually survived being kicked out at 14) and though you may have been tough to take back in the day, you are a wonderful, caring, beautiful person now.

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I wish I could take custody of my brother.
Hmm.. maybe I dont.. now that I think about it.
But ,in an ideal world I could and with a mentally stable brother that would be a great 'dream'.

I cant take him in for a number of reasons.
1) I live wit hubby and MIL
2) I have a youngchild I tend to 24-7. I cant chase him too
3) We can hardly afford ourselves, having to feed and clothe another person would kill us financialy.
4) i am not a stable enough human to manage his psychiatric disability.

I am , more and more, realizing that my mother has actually gone above and beyond what most people WOULD have done.
And I wasnt there.. so I dont know alot, but , it sounds like she is still willing to jump through those mommy miracle hoops for him if they make themselves available.
She cant insure him on her health plan because he is over 18 and not going to school.
So in order to get him into a psych facility, he would have to commit a crime .. a pretty serious one at that. I think my mother realizes that the things she can do have come to a complete stop.
I am upset because I forever think there is something that can be done for everything.

Fanciful indestructable shewolf.. >sigh<

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Quote:

cant take him in for a number of reasons.
1) I live wit hubby and MIL
2) I have a youngchild I tend to 24-7. I cant chase him too
3) We can hardly afford ourselves, having to feed and clothe another person would kill us financialy.
4) i am not a stable enough human to manage his psychiatric disability

Reason #5) He is an adult and responsible for his own actions and the consequences of his actions.

I've lived through the Schizophrenic Who Will Not Take Meds both directly and indirectly. Only experience will teach here.

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shewolfnm wrote:

I WANT to talk to my mother, but I dont think that I can do it effectivly because part of my motive is to save my brother when I cant. Im scared to death for him but am helpless to do anything. And I feel that if I can verbaly punish my mom for what I feel was a wrong decision , she will perform a mommy miracle on my brother and save him in the way I cant.
I cant seperate these feelings. Until then I cant talk to her. The things I would say would be unfair and just... mean. She doesnt deserve that.
I am coming from a superior standpoint.
Meaning.. I have it in my head that I would never do that to my child there for I need to berate her for doing it to me. Who the hell do I think I am?!
I dont know how to raise a teenager. How can I approach her like that? Do you see what I mean?

I do know what you mean, but I also think you have a perfect right to the "who the hell do I think I am?!" mindset. You know exactly who you are and you know what it took to get you there. There is no easy answer for your brother, its a very, very difficult situation. On the other hand, I still feel you are well within your rights to ask her about her decisions to let you learn from the road of hard knocks at the age of 14.

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Don't worry about confronting her as a parent about your brother.

Haul out your Inner Child, back her up with your Inner Parent, and confront her in that persona.

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J_B wrote:

I do know what you mean, but I also think you have a perfect right to the "who the hell do I think I am?!" mindset. You know exactly who you are and you know what it took to get you there. There is no easy answer for your brother, its a very, very difficult situation. On the other hand, I still feel you are well within your rights to ask her about her decisions to let you learn from the road of hard knocks at the age of 14.

And that is exactly what I want to talk to her about.
It has never bothered me so much until now.. while I watch my brother being subjected to the same parenting decisions I was.
I feel it is time that I took the time to tell her how angry I am for her decision.
But the simple fact for me here is that, until I can seperate the needs to help my brother and the other feelings I have about HIS situation, I wont be effective. I am completely responsible for what comes out of my mouth and what may come out rightnow isnt the things I FEEL ABOUT ME.. it is about him. ANd that is the idea that I dont think I have the right to. I am not his parent, I am not a psychaitrist, I dont have the complete right to judge what my mother does with her son.
I do have the right to disagree. I do have the right to suggest.. but those actions are much more gentle then what I am picturing.

Noddy24 wrote:

Haul out your Inner Child, back her up with your Inner Parent, and confront her in that persona..

My number one goal.
And until I can stand in that position I wont speak with my mom . And it is very odd that I feel incapable of that.
I am coming from the stand point of
Punish the mother like a puppy. Rub her nose in it while it is happening and then I may get the results I fantasize about.
And that is wrong and unfair.

I asked my mom last night afew things. I asked her what she would do if my brother returned home . She said, call the police.
Every hair on my neck stood up. SO I asked why.. She said that she has a restraining order against him. ( i got even madder ) but she went on to say.. " I have to keep tabs on him one way or another. If he shows up here, I can legally hand him to someone because he will be breaking the law. I cant put him in a facility unless I shell out several thousand dollars wich I just dont have. Maybe a judge will hear his psycho babble and realize he is crazy"
Hearing that helped me clarify how I was feeling a bit.
Deep down I know my mom isnt bailing on my brother. I can see alot that she does for him.She tells me alot that she does for him.
But until I can work through this imagined hate and get this idea out of my head that she is doing the opposite and ultimatly hurting my brother, I wont be clear enough to present to her what I feel I need to.
My mother has been a great friend to me as an adult. She has become a tremendous woman. I dont unserstand why I loose sight of that so easily.

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shewolfnm wrote:

But until I can work through this imagined hate and get this idea out of my head that she is doing the opposite and ultimatly hurting my brother, I wont be clear enough to present to her what I feel I need to.
My mother has been a great friend to me as an adult. She has become a tremendous woman. I dont unserstand why I loose sight of that so easily.

you are feeling helpless about your brother and it is natural to not understand what your mom has been through and how she is dealing with it. don't beat yourself up about this, the greatest thing about you right now is that you consciously realize what you are "feeling" is not necessarily what you "think". did that make any sense? most people cannot seperate out what is actually upsetting them and this tells me something i already suspected about you...you are a tremendous woman.

hugs all around-and i forgot to give chai hugs yesterday. i read your post and almost cried for you. good thoughts to everyone...

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I thinks it's understandable that you see your mother as a valued friend and a tremendous woman yet at the same time get concerned about her parenting. She's doing everything she can for your brother, but your memories of her parenting are haunting you.

The parent is different than the friend or the woman. You've come to love the later two, I think you still have justifiable issues with the former.

Maybe this current situation is not the best time to talk to her about your upbringing, but I do hope the day comes when you can ask her about it.

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I've skimmed the thread, and hope I'm not crowding anyone, but I'll give you my two cents.

First, I know that becoming a parent has made me completely re-evaluate my relationship with my parents. I can see their flaws and weaknesses much better. I'm using that perspective to make myself a better parent, and hopefully a better husband.

I'll have to discuss my views of your mother at a later time. I'm so incredibly appalled by her behavior that I'm afraid it will turn into a rant.

Regarding your brother's illnesses: the first step any reputable counselor will do is insist that he get off the illicit drugs. Only then will other treatments be effective. Any way you cut it, your brother has a tough road ahead. He cannot depend on support from your mother. And your responsibility is to your family; you are obligated to only offer those resources that will not negatively impact your baby. That includes, IMO, not bringing a drug user into your household.

You are not your brother's mother. Attempting to act as a mother toward him may just alienate him. As others have stated, he's an adult however ill-prepared he was for facing the world. My advice is protect your child, protect your marriage, and offer what support you can.

I would also like to offer my admiration for having survived your adolescence so well.

As I said, that's my $.02. As much as I can have a $.02 when you're the one living it. As Noddy says, hold your dominion.

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it is ok if it turns into a rant. ;-)
that is what half of my posts are.
I am bouncing between never wanting to talk to my mother again because of her choices , to wanting to jump in and help her stand her ground.

My brothers disease has made him combative and dangerous. The drugs dont help any. But he is almost too far gone to just simply talk to him. When you do, he begins thinking about the " People who want what is in his mind" . He thinks they are flying over the house, putting things in the water, inhis food, etc. He thinks he is being watched, followed etc.
He is really not there.
In my mothers defence, he has threatned her, hurt her, broken windows in attempts to get out of the house instead of using the door ( paranoid. )
She has gotten him into half way houses wich he runs from and comes to my mom threatning her.
Stolen her car, credit cards, money , etc. Has allowed friends to do the same so they can pawn it.
She has lsot her freedom, her safety and security because of his choices. She has to draw the line somewhere to maintain her ability to live and work and provide what ever help she can.
If he stays around and steals her car, money, etc.. that could impare her ability to work, damage her credit, make it impossible to insure her home.. etc.. etc..

NOT in my mothers defence-
he cant control his behaviors, he isnt mentally capable of learning from too many mistakes at this point. Kicking him out is a bit extreme.

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funny thing i just noticed..

my defence of her is longer then my accusation phrase. hmm Confused

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but do feel free to rant .
i enjoy hearing others opinions and thoughts.
that is why i opened a thread about it.
Dont owrry. I wont be offended and I wont ever be rude to you for what you want to say.
I want to hear it all.
My dilemma is clear, but how to fix it isnt.
Ranting, siding, defending, or just babbling will help me work this out.

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My rant has more to do with her treatment of you than her current treatment of your brother. What kind of parent tosses her hands up at a 14 year-old? And lets them go out on the streets?!?!?!? She can't deal in reality... how much did she know about the abuse? Rage, I tell you, rage that someone would treat a kid that way. Rage that other parents are letting stuff like that go on right now.

A drug-using paranoid schizophrenic is definitely not a safe person to have around. I understand your mother's need to protect herself at this point... but I'm certain that her treatment of your brother was similar to her treatment of you. Schizophrenia has been linked to environment as well as genetics. Why the switch flips on some and not others is an ongoing question.

Give the Bean an extra kiss. Give her a stable environment.

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I will strive to give Bean everything I can to help her become a satisfied, whole, happy person

My mom knew nothing of the abuse until I finally told her 5 years after it started.
That very day she came home from work, threw the man out and we filed a report with the police.
That afternoon , she hired a lawyer and we went in and gave our statments, went to an obgyn.
No hesitation on her part. She never questioned me, never doubted anything. Im not even sure she told her boyfriend WHY has being thrown out to begin with.
After the hearing ( 1+ years later ) her boyfriend filed for custody of my brother.. his son.
With in 24 hours of learning that, she packed us up and we threw everything in a Uhaul and moved at 1 am.
I think that she was truly devistated beyond understanding and never really snapped out of it. She went into a real numb denial stage and to this day hasnt truly came out of that shell.
That is probally what made her make that decision. She numbed herself to the pain so much that she wasnt aware of me feeling it anymore. She wasnt aware of much of anything.
Understandable to a certain extent..
but not 100% excuseable either.

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I am seeing my mother in a new light thats not flattering

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