mesquite
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Aug, 2005 08:27 pm
Frank Apisa wrote:

Sure!

Make it sound like you are some kind of gentleman...and only landed one kick!

We both know the truth!


The way I heard it Bernie had a bit of fun too.

http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=967883#967883

Quote:
How many here have always wanted to slap Frank repeadly while yelling "Wake up...Wake up, damnit!" I got to do that last night.


I'll bet Momma Angel is sorry she missed out on that opportunity.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Aug, 2005 08:35 pm
Momma Angel would never resort to violence, not even with Frank! Laughing
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Aug, 2005 08:36 pm
quite wrong mesquite, moma angle would have preyed over his body. (pronounced him dead on the scene and closed his eyes all the while looking up to heaven)
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Aug, 2005 08:47 pm
Ah Dys,

You know me so well!

I just read this article. I thank God this child was given the opportunity to live.

RICHMOND, Virginia (AP) -- A brain-dead pregnant woman who has been kept on life support for nearly three months to give her fetus more time to develop gave birth to a baby girl Tuesday, the woman's brother-in-law said.

There were no complications during delivery and the baby "is doing well," Justin Torres wrote in an e-mail to The Associated Press.

The baby, Susan Anne Catherine Torres, weighs one pound 13 ounces and is 13 1/2 inches long, he said.

The infant was delivered via caesarean section, the hospital said.

Susan Torres, a 26-year-old researcher at the National Institutes of Health, lost consciousness from a stroke May 7 after aggressive melanoma spread to her brain.

Her husband, Jason Torres, said doctors told him his wife's brain functions had stopped.

Jason Torres quit his job to be by his wife's side, and last month her fetus passed the 24th week of development -- the earliest point at which doctors felt the baby would have a reasonable chance to survive, the brother-in-law said.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Aug, 2005 08:54 pm
Not meaing to confuse you moma angle, I regard Frank as a dear friend. I only kicked him in the face as a means to revive him.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Aug, 2005 08:59 pm
Oh I understand completely, Dys. I do have to admit that I have had a thought or two of using a baseball bat on him. Laughing

But, the side he showed today was a complete surprise to me and very welcome one!

And Dys, I still love your sense of humor.
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Aug, 2005 09:45 pm
Phoenix32890 wrote:
Whew! I thought that I had a decent command of the English language, and communicated rather well. Apparently, if some people don't agree with me, they divine some arcane postulates, as they go along.


Hi Phoenix,

If you are referring to my reply (since I was one of the few who responded directly to your post) or someone else's, why don't you simply state what they or I said that you think is "arcane" and maybe it will be explained to you. Else why mention it at all?
0 Replies
 
Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Aug, 2005 08:22 am
I wrote:
Another thought. If one looks at any backward society, one of the overriding concerns of that society is the regulation and repression of women, especially in the area of reproductive autonomy. It is the old patriarchial system, where a society literally keeps its women barefoot, pregnant, and subservient to the whims of the male.

Whether a woman is obliged to wear clothing that hides their entire body, so that a man might not be "tempted", the barbarity of clitoridectomy, the practice of "honor killings", women sold into sexual slavery, or the inability of a woman to make a choice over what she can or cannot do with her own body, even the strictures that some religions have over birth control, it is all part of the same phenomenon.

The difference is only a matter of degree.


intrepid wrote:
Am I reading this right? So the whole abortion thing is a matter of a woman's power over man? Women's repression? Is this the real reason that women have abortions?


I wrote:
Whew! I thought that I had a decent command of the English language, and communicated rather well. Apparently, if some people don't agree with me, they divine some arcane postulates, as they go along.


Real life- No, I was referring to intrepid's reply.

Women have abortions for numerous reasons. If one boils it all down to one general reason, it is:

She does not want to carry the pregnancy to term.

Whether the particular reason for the abortion is rational, logical, well thought out, or immature and frivolous, the bottom line is that it is the woman's body, and, IMO, as long as the product of the conception is not a legal person, she has a perfect right to do with it as she wishes.

I have my own opinion as to what point in the pregnancy a woman should be obliged to carry the fetus to term, but that is neither here nor there.
0 Replies
 
auroreII
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Aug, 2005 09:01 am
Abortion is a kind of genocide.

Planned Parenthood is a big supporter of abortion rights, but don't forget Planned Parenthood's founder Martha Sanger wrote that she favored birth control and sterilization to get rid of the poor and undesirables. You can read about this in her Malthusian Population Doctrine and in the Birth Control Review- 10/1926. (The following was taken from a letter to the editor) "The next time you hear someone bragging that Sanger's Planned Parenthood provides birth control and abortion to the poor, remember this, it does so not out of any love for the poor, but because it was founded on a doctrine that holds the poor in such contempt that it hates to see them reproduce."

Many women I know who support the right to an abortion do so out of a compassion they feel towards those women whose pregnancies may present a hardship for them. I prefer not to get into arguments over that. I understand their reasoning, but I hope they can at least see beyond the euphamisms for what abortion really is. I choose life.

Rush Limbaugh said he was against abortion because it "cheapens life". He was once confronted by a pro-abortion advocate who told him that abortion was necessary to prevent a child who is terminally ill or deformed from suffering. Mr. Limbaugh told that person that life is full of suffering. Everyone suffers, we can't avoid it. If we justify abortion to avoid suffering then why should anyone bother being born at all? Life can be hard sometimes. Choosing life can mean hardship.

Designer families are possible in the U.S. With abortion people can pick and choose when to have their kids, decide on how their ages will be spaced and can rid themselves of unwanted and imperfect children by early prenatal detection of mental and physical defects. I read an article in the paper where scientists were claiming that in a few years there will be a "cure" for cystic fibrosis and other genetic diseases. This will be accomplished by the in-vitro fertilization of the egg so that the genetic make-up can be examined and any imperfect embryos can be discarded down the sink drain. Is this a "cure"? It sounds like genocide. Imperfect people would be denied the right to be born. It's a dilemma. Given the choice between having a healthy child or an unhealthy one with genetic defects how many are going to pick the unhealthy one? I'll tell you one thing for sure, this isn't a "cure" for these diseases.

Here are some more reasons pro-abortionists have said we need abortion. We need abortion to reduce the number of babies born with drug addictions and A.I.D.S.. They say we need abortion for the poor to keep the number of babies born on welfare down so that our overburdened welfare system doesn't become more strained. They feel abortion is the answer, the "cure", for these problems.

A few years ago I watched a documentary about an abortion clinic in India . India has a problem with overpopulation and poor. In India a man has greater value than a woman. It has something to do with their religion I believe. I forget exactly how many abortions were performed at that clinic- one hundred? two hundred?, yet I was shocked to hear that only one of those abortions was performed on a male fetus. Genocide. Women are expenable because they aren't valuable. If the family was poor and couldn't afford a lot of children and the child was female then it was the most apt to be aborted.

When we make exceptions for killing it puts everyone at risk. What is to prevent someone from making you or your kind an exception?
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Aug, 2005 09:10 am
auroreII wrote:
Abortion is a kind of genocide.

Planned Parenthood is a big supporter of abortion rights, but don't forget Planned Parenthood's founder Martha Sanger wrote that she favored birth control and sterilization to get rid of the poor and undesirables. You can read about this in her Malthusian Population Doctrine and in the Birth Control Review- 10/1926. (The following was taken from a letter to the editor) "The next time you hear someone bragging that Sanger's Planned Parenthood provides birth control and abortion to the poor, remember this, it does so not out of any love for the poor, but because it was founded on a doctrine that holds the poor in such contempt that it hates to see them reproduce."

Many women I know who support the right to an abortion do so out of a compassion they feel towards those women whose pregnancies may present a hardship for them. I prefer not to get into arguments over that. I understand their reasoning, but I hope they can at least see beyond the euphamisms for what abortion really is. I choose life.

Rush Limbaugh said he was against abortion because it "cheapens life".



Rush Limbaugh cheapens life.


Quote:
He was once confronted by a pro-abortion advocate who told him that abortion was necessary to prevent a child who is terminally ill or deformed from suffering. Mr. Limbaugh told that person that life is full of suffering. Everyone suffers, we can't avoid it. If we justify abortion to avoid suffering then why should anyone bother being born at all? Life can be hard sometimes. Choosing life can mean hardship.


Rush Limbaugh has made some decisions in his life that suck. I am of the opinion that Rush Limbaugh should have the right to make as many decisions that suck as he likes.

I am also of the opinion that a pregnant woman has a right to terminate her pregnancy for whatever reasons she chooses.


Quote:
Designer families are possible in the U.S. With abortion people can pick and choose when to have their kids, decide on how their ages will be spaced and can rid themselves of unwanted and imperfect children by early prenatal detection of mental and physical defects. I read an article in the paper where scientists were claiming that in a few years there will be a "cure" for cystic fibrosis and other genetic diseases. This will be accomplished by the in-vitro fertilization of the egg so that the genetic make-up can be examined and any imperfect embryos can be discarded down the sink drain. Is this a "cure"? It sounds like genocide. Imperfect people would be denied the right to be born. It's a dilemma. Given the choice between having a healthy child or an unhealthy one with genetic defects how many are going to pick the unhealthy one? I'll tell you one thing for sure, this isn't a "cure" for these diseases.

Here are some more reasons pro-abortionists have said we need abortion. We need abortion to reduce the number of babies born with drug addictions and A.I.D.S.. They say we need abortion for the poor to keep the number of babies born on welfare down so that our overburdened welfare system doesn't become more strained. They feel abortion is the answer, the "cure", for these problems.

A few years ago I watched a documentary about an abortion clinic in India . India has a problem with overpopulation and poor. In India a man has greater value than a woman. It has something to do with their religion I believe. I forget exactly how many abortions were performed at that clinic- one hundred? two hundred?, yet I was shocked to hear that only one of those abortions was performed on a male fetus. Genocide. Women are expenable because they aren't valuable. If the family was poor and couldn't afford a lot of children and the child was female then it was the most apt to be aborted.

When we make exceptions for killing it puts everyone at risk. What is to prevent someone from making you or your kind an exception?


Get a life!

If a pregnant woman wants to terminate her pregnancy...she ought to be allowed to do so without other nosy busybodies poking into it.
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Aug, 2005 09:13 am
Phoenix32890 wrote:
Women have abortions for numerous reasons. If one boils it all down to one general reason, it is:

She does not want to carry the pregnancy to term.

Whether the particular reason for the abortion is rational, logical, well thought out, or immature and frivolous, the bottom line is that it is the woman's body, and, IMO, as long as the product of the conception is not a legal person, she has a perfect right to do with it as she wishes.



Hi Phoenix,

So if abortion was illegal, and the unborn had legal protection and status as a person, what would be your position then?
0 Replies
 
Shazzer
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Aug, 2005 10:34 am
Since it is legal now, does it matter? I mean, I know we've talked about the legality aspect before; it just seems as though Phoenix believes in a woman's right, and was noting that the law supports her assertion.

Sorry, for jumping in for you, P
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Aug, 2005 10:48 am
Abortion may be legal, but Christians still believe it is wrong to do. This is one of those things that will more than likely never find a happy medium.

I view abortion as murder and contend no one has the right to commit murder. And yes, I know, Frank says it's not murder because it is not an illegal act. But once again, these are words that man has changed and laws that man has changed.

God does not and has not changed the law.
0 Replies
 
Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Aug, 2005 11:45 am
real life wrote:
So if abortion was illegal, and the unborn had legal protection and status as a person, what would be your position then?


I would fight like hell to get the law changed. I lived at a time when abortion WAS illegal, and I knew a number of people who had to go to a more enlightened country to have a pregnancy terminated. The people that I knew were middle class, and could afford to go to a clean facility for the procedure. The poor had to resort to coat hangers and back alley butchers.

I think that even attempting to grant legal status to the unborn would be a travesty. I know that there are many, especially on the Christian Right, who would be delighted if that happened.

I object to the term pro-abortion. I prefer pro-choice. No one, but the most muddleheaded, immature, and illogical, would think, "Aw, what the heck. If I get pregnant, I can always do away with it". I believe that abortion is a hard and emotional decision, and never a happy one. Personally, as a young woman, I always said that if I inadvertently became pregnant, I probably would NOT want to abort. Thankfully, that decision never had to be made. But that was MY choice, and I do not believe in foisting my beliefs on other people, which some now are attempting to do.

In other words, IMO, each woman has the right to decide what is best for HER life. Also, IMO, the rights of a living woman trumps the rights of a fetus, every time.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Aug, 2005 11:46 am
Whether abortion is a legal issue, a moral issue, a woman's choice, or approved/disapproved by one's definition of a god are entirely different propositions than the humanity or lack of humanity of a zygote/embryo/fetus.

There are so many different permutations of the issue, this thread could go on for years; probably will. No wonder Frank posted it. Laughing

Now if we had some standard we all agreed to go by. . . :wink:
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Aug, 2005 11:51 am
Since we are all looking for concessions to be made...I suggest the Christian right acknowledge that the net result...according to their faith...is that if the fetus is a person...the person, if aborted, ends up in Heaven spending eternity with their god.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Aug, 2005 11:55 am
Exactly, Neo! If we could all agree, but alas, it seems we can't.

Frank, none of us have said that if the child was aborted, it would not go to heaven. That is not the issue. Of course the soul of the child would go to heaven.

Phoenix,

We all have the right to lobby to change the laws and once the laws are made, then we must adhere to them. But, that does not mean that because it is now a law that I will ever agree that abortion is okay.

And, I would hate to think that any woman would think, gee, if I get pregnant I can just abort. But, I am sure at least one has.

And, just where would you be today, if your mother had decided not to have you? You wouldn't be here arguing to make it okay for other children to be aborted. So, you got a chance at life, why try to take that away from others?
0 Replies
 
Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Aug, 2005 11:56 am
Quote:
God does not and has not changed the law.


MA- That is fine for people who believe. I don't. I go by the laws of the U.S. I really object to people attempting to superimpose their own personal religious beliefs on others.

I consider the attempt to have people adhere to your way of thinking the ultimate in disrespect. People talk about "love", but want others to behave on THEIR terms. That's not love. That is an attempt to create a claque of yes-men to reinforce their own beliefs.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Aug, 2005 12:06 pm
Phoenix,

I am sorry if you are offended by my beliefs. I am not trying to force them on you. We are having a discussion where you pose your views and I pose mine. I think abortion is wrong. You think abortion is okay. Now, how is that imposing my religious beliefs on you anymore than you are imposing your views on me? Is there a difference here? If there is, I do not see it.

I have stated MY beliefs, MY views, etc. You have stated YOUR beliefs, YOUR views, etc. It's merely a discussion.

The ultimate decision (IMO) is left up to God and He is the judge here; not me and not you and not anyone else.

We are just sharing opinions, etc.
0 Replies
 
Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Aug, 2005 12:06 pm
Quote:
And, just where would you be today, if your mother had decided not to have you? You wouldn't be here arguing to make it okay for other children to be aborted. So, you got a chance at life, why try to take that away from others?


MA- I would be exactly where I was before I was conceived, an egg residing in a woman's uterus. And there would be no "me" to make any difference.

Your remark about "a chance at life" is interesting. I would be curious as to what your views are on birth control. By your logic, in order to give someone a chance at life, there would be NO birth control. Each woman would produce as many kids as their bodies could manage, like they do in many third world countries.

After all, sperm that end up in a condom has denied a potential pregnancy. Birth control pills prevent the creation of life. How many children do YOU have? Even the rhythm method is doing an "end run" around preventing a pregnancy. By middle age, a woman could give life to maybe 10-12 children, or possibly more!

Think about that!
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

700 Inconsistencies in the Bible - Discussion by onevoice
Why do we deliberately fool ourselves? - Discussion by coincidence
Spirituality - Question by Miller
Oneness vs. Trinity - Discussion by Arella Mae
give you chills - Discussion by Bartikus
Evidence for Evolution! - Discussion by Bartikus
Evidence of God! - Discussion by Bartikus
One World Order?! - Discussion by Bartikus
God loves us all....!? - Discussion by Bartikus
The Preambles to Our States - Discussion by Charli
 
  1. Forums
  2. » ABORTION.......
  3. » Page 28
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.05 seconds on 10/06/2024 at 12:27:19