ABORTION.......

Frank Apisa wrote:

Child of the Light wrote:
Frank Apisa wrote:

The woman is the one with the growth in her body. If she wants the growth eleminated...it is my opinion (and the law) that she can do so.

End of story.

To suppose the guy has any say in her decision is absurd.

That's ridiculous. The child is 50% of the man's. The fact that it is in the women's body clouds people's vision, and because of this a women can use a child to monetarily drain a man, but a man can't have a loving relationship with his own child. That is completely ridiculous.

Oh, please!

The pregnancy is the woman's....and the woman's alone. The growth is not occurring in the man's body....just in the woman's body.

If the woman does not want the pregnancy to continue...she should have the right to terminate it.

Nobody else should intrude into that decision.

Given your thinking, Frank. Should the man be legally able to request his sperm back?

0 Replies

Frank,

Now who's weaseling out? Who's running with his tail tucked between his legs? I asked you a question. A valid question! It's just another one of your diversionary tactics. You either ignore valid questions or call them B.S. When someone doesn't answer your question (to your satisfaction) you accuse them of running with their tails between their legs or weaseling out.

You are being so hypocritical. You twist, bend, and distort everyone's words to attack them. Yet, you can't take the heat and answer a simple yes or no question.

Now, if you are such a strong (can't use believer here because we know better)... So, if you think your argument has so much merit, answer the question! If your wife was having a child and right before it was to be born and you and she decided (or she decided) she did not want that growth (your word, not mine), would you them terminate the pregnancy? What's so hard about answering yes or no? C'mon Frank, I dare ya.

0 Replies

I guess my questions are too difficult too. Other posts received prompt and inflammatory responses.
Rolling Eyes

0 Replies

Child of the Light wrote:

Tax breaks are the same as murder huh? That's a horrible example. The fact is that when a normal person kills a pregnant women or the fetus it is murder, but when a doctor does it it isn't. Why is that? Because she gave consent? If so that is stupid, and we should start calling hitmen Dr. Joey Fingers.

You were essentially making a claim about the law backing your assertion that the fetus is a person.

I was making assertion that other law backs my assertion that the fetus is not a person.

There is no murder involved when a doctor performs an abortion...because murder is the illegal taking of a human life. Performing an abortion is not the illegal taking of a human life.

0 Replies

Intrepid wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
Intrepid wrote:
I could have a better conversation with a six year old child.

Probably because you would be conversing with someone who thinks like you.

Actually, I was thinking that they would actually make sense and not be prone to vulgar and oppressive language.

I realized what you were thinking...but you left an opening...and I took it.

Quote:

My religion, I know, is different than a few others who have posted. I may not agree with the doctrine of their religion, but I respect their right to hold it. You have not seen anyone else curse and use profanities on this thread...why do you? Is that the only way you think you can make a valid point? People may be more prone to listen to what you say if they are not being spat upon when they do not agree with you.

I do what I do for a purpose....and I can assure you that it is very effective.

Quote:

I notice that you actually write civilly to some posters. Do you just have a dislike for some of us?

Actually, I do not dislike any of you. I do what I do for a purpose....and I can assure you that it is very effective. Stick around. You'll see.

Quote:

Petersen was charged for the death of his unborn child. How do you account for this?

The law allowed for that!

I think it is a poor law...but there are many politicians willing to suck up to their religious constituency for reasons that often are not especially admirable.

0 Replies

Intrepid wrote:

[Given your thinking, Frank. Should the man be legally able to request his sperm back?

Nope!

0 Replies

Frank,

The dictionary also defines murder as something outrageous or blameworthy, and I find intentionally taking the life of what is perceived by some to be a growth, a fetus, a someday will be a child, a child, etc., is outrageous and blameworthy.

Face it Frank, one killing another one intentionally is murder!

Now, are you going to answer my question above or not?

I see you conveniently ignored my post. I expected it. It's a simple question, Frank. Yes or no?

0 Replies

Momma Angel wrote:

Frank,

Now who's weaseling out? Who's running with his tail tucked between his legs? I asked you a question. A valid question! It's just another one of your diversionary tactics. You either ignore valid questions or call them B.S. When someone doesn't answer your question (to your satisfaction) you accuse them of running with their tails between their legs or weaseling out.

Certainly not me.

Quote:

You are being so hypocritical. You twist, bend, and distort everyone's words to attack them. Yet, you can't take the heat and answer a simple yes or no question.

That is not correct. I am not hypocritical... do not twist, bend, or distort what people say. I try to answer every question put to me.

Quote:

Now, if you are such a strong (can't use believer here because we know better)... So, if you think your argument has so much merit, answer the question! If your wife was having a child and right before it was to be born and you and she decided (or she decided) she did not want that growth (your word, not mine), would you them terminate the pregnancy?

It is not a question...it is a rather poorly thought out and poorly contructed hypothetical. I prefer not to deal with hypotheticals...particularly something as ill-conceived as this one.

BUT....so that I don't have to listen to your hysterical bullshyt about me dodging anything you write...

...I will respond.

If she wanted to terminate the pregnancy at that moment...I would support her decision completely and without reservation.

Okay???

Quote:

What's so hard about answering yes or no? C'mon Frank, I dare ya.

The hypothetical was a joke....and I am fairly certain you are too.

Do with my answer what you will.

0 Replies

Momma Angel wrote:

Frank,

The dictionary also defines murder as something outrageous or blameworthy...

It does???

Okay...maybe I can learn something here.

What dictionary?

Quote:

I really and I find intentionally taking the life of what is perceived by some to be a growth, a fetus, a someday will be a child, a child, etc., is outrageous and blameworthy.

Well I don't...and apparently the law of the United States doesn't either. So do we simply bow to your feelings?

Quote:

Face it Frank, one killing another one intentionally is murder!

Not always. One person killing anther in war isn't...one person killing another in self-defense isn't.

Can't you be logical?

Quote:

Now, are you going to answer my question above or not?

I see you conveniently ignored my post. I expected it. It's a simple question, Frank. Yes or no?

I did not ignore your post. I do have other things to do...and I was doing them. The moment I saw that hysterical post of yours...I responded.

0 Replies

Frank,

You would support your wife's decision to kill your child? Well, now that really gives me some insight. So what about your friends Frank? You would care so little about your child (or what would in just a few seconds be your child) that you would agree to have it killed? Boy, I can see how you can state you are such a kind, decent, moral, and loyal human being. I would trust you with my life, Frank. Oh yeah, about as much as I trust you have any compassion at all.

And I don't care if you don't like my hypotheticals. I don't like your .....
Nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah. That's rather childish, don't you think.

I don't care if you don't like me, I don't care if you don't like anything or anybody. It doesn't matter to me what you think of me, it matters to me what I think of you!

And I gotta tell you, the more I find out about you, the real you (that you show with your words), I don't like what I see.

0 Replies

Merriam-Websters Dictionary.

Sorry, I assumed you were ignoring me.

No, don't have to bow to my feelings. Just recognize that I have the right to state them. Just stop telling us anti-abortionists that we are wrong about a fetus being a fetus and a child being a child. You are not God! He is the only one that can state unequivocally the answer to that. We all state "we believe" it is a child. If you don't believe it is, then say I don't believe it is. Oh, but you don't believe in anything, almost forgot that.

Oh, and as far as killing in self-defense and in wartime? Geez Frank. Get real. You know what I was talking about. I'm dense? I'm illogical?

0 Replies

Momma Angel wrote:

Frank,

You would support your wife's decision to kill your child? Well, now that really gives me some insight. So what about your friends Frank? You would care so little about your child (or what would in just a few seconds be your child) that you would agree to have it killed? Boy, I can see how you can state you are such a kind, decent, moral, and loyal human being. I would trust you with my life, Frank. Oh yeah, about as much as I trust you have any compassion at all.

You really gotta get control over this hysteria, MA. You're gonna pop your cork.

I would not support anyone's decision to kill a child. But a fetus is not a child. Get that through your head.

If the fetus is still in the body of the woman bearing it....IT IS A FETUS. And if the woman wants to abort it....she has my support.

Now...this would never come up in my life for several reasons...which was why I did not want to respond to your idiotic hypothetical.

Quote:

And I don't care if you don't like my hypotheticals. I don't like your .....
Nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah. That's rather childish, don't you think.

I think you are worse than childish...but if you want to call yourself childish, I will support you.

Quote:

I don't care if you don't like me...

Don't like you???!!! MA, I love you.

Quote:

I don't care if you don't like anything or anybody. It doesn't matter to me what you think of me, it matters to me what I think of you!

You are free to do that. Go with is. But deal with your anger. It can cause all sorts of health problems.

Quote:

And I gotta tell you, the more I find out about you, the real you (that you show with your words), I don't like what I see.

Ahhh...chances are you'd love me. Damn near everyone who knows me loves me.

0 Replies

Frank,

You totally misunderstand me. Hysteria/hysterical? No. As a matter of fact, just the opposite. You are a child of God. You deserve the same things everyone else deserves.

I am merely calling you on your behavior Frank. And Frank, I surely did not expect you would ever be in that hypothetical situation. God forbid anyone would be in that situation.

Love me, Frank? Be honest, what you love is the fact that you feel you have a target in me. Fine, if you're attacking me then you are leaving others alone. When someone comes in these forums asking questions because they want answers because they are searching for something and you attack them, you can be extremely offensive and disrespectful. Once they say they believe in a God, any God, you turn on them. And Frank, don't deny it. I have read your posts. I have seen it, as have others.

Your refusal to take responsibility for your own actions is simply mind-boggling.

Just realize something, when you have one finger pointing at someone else, you have three pointing right back at you. And that is exactly why I take great care in the way I say things. I do try very hard not to use abusive language or call someone names. You can't even afford that courtesy to everyone. You pick and choose to whom you would spread your kindness and morality.

I can go on forever with you Frank. I have something you will never have as long as you keep that attitude. Your heart seems to be particularly hardened, and I can only imagine what has hurt you so deeply in life to make it that way. But, blaming God is not the answer.

0 Replies

Momma Angel wrote:

Merriam-Websters Dictionary.

Here is what the Merriam-Websters Dictionary has to say about the word "murder":

1 : the crime of unlawfully killing a person especially with malice aforethought

2 a : something very difficult or dangerous <the traffic was murder>
b : something outrageous or blameworthy <getting away with murder>

Are you gonna try to sell me on the idea that you oppose abortion on the basis of the two items mentioned in the second definition above?

Please. Let's try to be real!

Quote:

Sorry, I assumed you were ignoring me.

Never assume that in the future, because I will never ignore you.

Quote:

No, don't have to bow to my feelings. Just recognize that I have the right to state them.

I have no problem with that...and I have never attempted to get you to stop sharing them. (I cannot say the same for you in reciprocation, however!)

Quote:

Just stop telling us anti-abortionists that we are wrong about a fetus being a fetus and a child being a child.

There you are...doing it again. Why are you telling me that I cannot share my opinions?????

Quote:

You are not God! He is the only one that can state unequivocally the answer to that.

Really! And what if there is no God?

Quote:

We all state "we believe" it is a child. If you don't believe it is, then say I don't believe it is. Oh, but you don't believe in anything, almost forgot that.

I am saying that words have meanings. A fetus is...after all...a fetus. An embryo is an embryo.

I don't even want to use "child"...but you used the expression a living human being. A fetus is not a living human being...and neither is an embryo. An egg is not a chicken.

Quote:

Oh, and as far as killing in self-defense and in wartime? Geez Frank. Get real. You know what I was talking about. I'm dense? I'm illogical?

MA...you wrote: "Face it Frank, one killing another one intentionally is murder! "

I pointed out that is not so...and I gave examples. And now you want to make me wrong rather than simply acknowledging that you were wrong????

You get real!

0 Replies

Momma Angel wrote:

Frank,

You totally misunderstand me. Hysteria/hysterical? No. As a matter of fact, just the opposite. You are a child of God. You deserve the same things everyone else deserves.

Well, I agree witht that last sentence...not at all with the next to last...and I gotta be honest: I think you are hysterical.

Quote:

I am merely calling you on your behavior Frank. And Frank, I surely did not expect you would ever be in that hypothetical situation. God forbid anyone would be in that situation.

On two different occasions I got a woman pregnant who decided to abort the pregnancy. One was back when abortion was still illegal in the United States...and I had to accompany her to Puerto Rico...a referal from a Protestant minister who counciled women in her predicament.

We went to the office of the "doctor" in San Juan...a Dr. Angel. It was a filthy place...more like a motor vehicle agency than a doctors office...and the women in the place (probably 30 on the day we were there) were obviously terrified of what they were going to endure.

But the procedure went well...and the situation, no matter how disgusting, was infinitely better than many less well-off women faced in back alleys with washer women using coat hangers as medical instruments.

The second occurred after abortion became legal in the US...and it amounted to me furnishing the woman with the money for the procedure (she preferred that I not accompany her, although I offered)...and a fairly anticeptic, safe happening.

I've since had a vasectomy....one of the reasons I laughed at your silly hypothetical. Some might say that it was too little and too late...but to them, I say: Screw you! Live your own life.

If it turns out that there is a God...and a place to go after death...and I have to face the souls of the fetuses that were destroyed...I will do it as best I can. But that is nobody's business but mine...and I think folks like you ought to keep your goddam noses out of it.

Quote:

Love me, Frank? Be honest, what you love is the fact that you feel you have a target in me.

I love that too. But I also love you, MA.

Just accept that...don't fight it. You won't win that fight either.

Quote:

Fine, if you're attacking me then you are leaving others alone.

How noble. Reminds me of St. Paul saying he would give up salvation of his immortal soul in order to save the soul of someone else. (A self-serving crock of shyt if ever there was such a thing.)

Quote:

When someone comes in these forums asking questions because they want answers because they are searching for something and you attack them, you can be extremely offensive and disrespectful.

Yup...and I can also be pleasant and engaging....and most of all, informative.

Depends on many things.

Quote:

Once they say they believe in a God, any God, you turn on them. And Frank, don't deny it. I have read your posts. I have seen it, as have others.

Well...I do deny it.

I despise religion...and I will combat it with all my energy. But you are grossly distorting what goes on with me.

Quote:

Your refusal to take responsibility for your own actions is simply mind-boggling.

Your denial boggles my mind. I guess we both have to deal with that.

Quote:

Just realize something, when you have one finger pointing at someone else, you have three pointing right back at you. And that is exactly why I take great care in the way I say things. I do try very hard not to use abusive language or call someone names. You can't even afford that courtesy to everyone. You pick and choose to whom you would spread your kindness and morality.

In other words..."be more like me, Frank!"

You really have a lot of nerve.

Quote:

I can go on forever with you Frank.

Good. I'm gonna be here for you, MA.

Quote:

I have something you will never have as long as you keep that attitude. Your heart seems to be particularly hardened, and I can only imagine what has hurt you so deeply in life to make it that way.

You really have to hook up with me some time, MA. The people who do meet me...(lots of them here in A2K) know that I am one of the happiest, most content people in the world. I am incredibly lucky, MA. I enjoy so many things...and am happy with life in ways that actually rub off on others. Check with the people who have been with me. You'll see.

Quote:

But, blaming God is not the answer.

God????

I would never blame God.

And of course, I would never blame that cartoon god of the Bible either.

(???? Blame it for what???)

0 Replies

Frank Apisa wrote:

Momma Angel wrote:
Merriam-Websters Dictionary.

Here is what the Merriam-Websters Dictionary has to say about the word "murder":

1 : the crime of unlawfully killing a person especially with malice aforethought

2 a : something very difficult or dangerous <the traffic was murder>
b : something outrageous or blameworthy <getting away with murder>

Are you gonna try to sell me on the idea that you oppose abortion on the basis of the two items mentioned in the second definition above?

Please. Let's try to be real!

Quote:
Sorry, I assumed you were ignoring me.

Never assume that in the future, because I will never ignore you.

Quote:
No, don't have to bow to my feelings. Just recognize that I have the right to state them.

I have no problem with that...and I have never attempted to get you to stop sharing them. (I cannot say the same for you in reciprocation, however!)

Quote:
Just stop telling us anti-abortionists that we are wrong about a fetus being a fetus and a child being a child.

There you are...doing it again. Why are you telling me that I cannot share my opinions?????

Quote:
You are not God! He is the only one that can state unequivocally the answer to that.

Really! And what if there is no God?

Quote:
We all state "we believe" it is a child. If you don't believe it is, then say I don't believe it is. Oh, but you don't believe in anything, almost forgot that.

I am saying that words have meanings. A fetus is...after all...a fetus. An embryo is an embryo.

I don't even want to use "child"...but you used the expression a living human being. A fetus is not a living human being...and neither is an embryo. An egg is not a chicken.

Quote:
Oh, and as far as killing in self-defense and in wartime? Geez Frank. Get real. You know what I was talking about. I'm dense? I'm illogical?

MA...you wrote: "Face it Frank, one killing another one intentionally is murder! "

I pointed out that is not so...and I gave examples. And now you want to make me wrong rather than simply acknowledging that you were wrong????

You get real!

Oh Frank, you must include entertaining in your repetoire of personal characteristics!

No. I am not trying to tell you I base my position of abortion on the definitions in the dictionary. I merely stated the dictionary also defines murder as.....

I don't want you to say I am wrong or right. I want you to have the common courtesy to say "you think, you feel, you whatever,". Telling me if I want to learn something then I need to start paying attention to you (a different thread) is telling me I am wrong and you are right! No matter how you cut it.

And that "a fetus is a fetus is a fetus" thing is getting pretty old, just as I am sure "a child is a child, is a human being" is getting old to you. It is your opinion. Agree to disagree and leave it alone.

Well, let's see, what if there is no God? Well, guess that leaves the position open and you can apply for the job. You have a right to believe there is no God or think it or feel it or whatever you want to call it.

I believe, have faith, know in my heart, in my life there is God; therefore I feel blessed.

Yes, Frank, words have meanings. And those meanings are interpreted by each individual. So?

Frank, share your opinions. I welcome opinions. I just don't welcome being told I am insane, a joke, a moron, or that my beliefs are idiotic, insane, illogical, etc. If it's your opinion, state "In my opinion." Simply stating you are a joke, God is a scumbag, etc. is judgmental, and you rail against those you think are judging you. Offer the same courtesy!

Be a man Frank! A man does not have to use his braun.

0 Replies

Frank Apisa wrote:

Child of the Light wrote:
Tax breaks are the same as murder huh? That's a horrible example. The fact is that when a normal person kills a pregnant women or the fetus it is murder, but when a doctor does it it isn't. Why is that? Because she gave consent? If so that is stupid, and we should start calling hitmen Dr. Joey Fingers.

You were essentially making a claim about the law backing your assertion that the fetus is a person.

I was making assertion that other law backs my assertion that the fetus is not a person.

There is no murder involved when a doctor performs an abortion...because murder is the illegal taking of a human life. Performing an abortion is not the illegal taking of a human life.

Come on man, it isn't that at all. I wasn't using law to back my assertion, I was using 2 parallel effects caused by 2 parallel actions. In both cases a fetus is killed, one is murder, one isn't. Your example was in no way parallel to the subject at hand, that was the problem with it.

0 Replies

You're right COL.

The life of the unborn doesn't switch on and off due to whether it is wanted or not.

Which is why abortion is murder. State sanctioned--yes. Legal--yes. But, it's time people admit it.

If Scott Peterson killed his unborn child and was duly convicted of it's murder--the same applies o all who intentionally kill unborn babies.

(Really, whether Peterson's jury found it or not--every parent who has loved an unborn child--talked to it--made a place for it--named it--cried when they thought it was in danger--knows.)

0 Replies

Child of the Light wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
Child of the Light wrote:
Tax breaks are the same as murder huh? That's a horrible example. The fact is that when a normal person kills a pregnant women or the fetus it is murder, but when a doctor does it it isn't. Why is that? Because she gave consent? If so that is stupid, and we should start calling hitmen Dr. Joey Fingers.

You were essentially making a claim about the law backing your assertion that the fetus is a person.

I was making assertion that other law backs my assertion that the fetus is not a person.

There is no murder involved when a doctor performs an abortion...because murder is the illegal taking of a human life. Performing an abortion is not the illegal taking of a human life.

Come on man, it isn't that at all. I wasn't using law to back my assertion, I was using 2 parallel effects caused by 2 parallel actions. In both cases a fetus is killed, one is murder, one isn't. Your example was in no way parallel to the subject at hand, that was the problem with it.

You are saying that the law indicates...in some instances...that it considers killing a fetus...to be a person...and for the killing of the fetus to be murder.

I was merely showing that other laws show the fetus NOT to be a person.

Get over it.

If a woman wants to abort a pregnancy...she should be able to do it legally.

Live with that.

And...if you objections to abortion have anything to do with your religious beliefs...tell me what you suppose happens to the soul of this fetus that you suppose to be a complete human?

0 Replies

Lash wrote:

You're right COL.

No she's not. But she is wrong. So you almost got it right.

Quote:

The life of the unborn doesn't switch on and off due to whether it is wanted or not.

Which is why abortion is murder. State sanctioned--yes. Legal--yes. But, it's time people admit it.

There is no such thing as "legal" murder. Murder is defined as an illegal killing of a human being.

Try to come to grips with that.

If you want to call it gruesome, ghastly, barbaric, or disgusting...go for it.

But it isn't murder.

Quote:

If Scott Peterson killed his unborn child and was duly convicted of it's murder--the same applies o all who intentionally kill unborn babies.

Really!

Well..let's see you try to get a District Attorney to prosecute some of those cases...and we will see.

I say you won't get the prosecution...because the prosecutors understand that it is not murder.

Boy...you folks are really stone headed on this.

Quote:

(Really, whether Peterson's jury found it or not--every parent who has loved an unborn child--talked to it--made a place for it--named it--cried when they thought it was in danger--knows.)

Arguments from emotion.

Claptrap!

0 Replies

ABORTION.......

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know