If Jesus WAS God as many believe, then God became man with all the ability to suffer hunger, thirst, pain, and death that any human can suffer. And He willingly died a dramatic and terrible death to fulfill the Old Testament legal requirements once and for all and to demonstrate that death has no hold on us. That, many of us believe, is love in its purest form.
Questioner,
I am not sure that is a good description of what you think we do. I for one, try to point out the scriptures that reinforce what I believe. That doesn't mean they will be accepted by anyone else. If I don't know an answer, I try to either find the answer or if I can't find it I just say I don't know. Yes, I will also say there are just things about God that I don't understand. I will say that because it is true.
Jesus had power to refuse His mission. He said father, take this cup from me, but then, not my will but thine be done. So, yes, He made a choice. He chose to go through with it because He knew it was His father's will and the Father loves us. So many seem to think that God had His son sacrificed for Himself. In reality, Christ was sacrificed for our sins and nothing He did for Himself.
Momma Angel wrote:Questioner,
I am not sure that is a good description of what you think we do. I for one, try to point out the scriptures that reinforce what I believe. That doesn't mean they will be accepted by anyone else. If I don't know an answer, I try to either find the answer or if I can't find it I just say I don't know. Yes, I will also say there are just things about God that I don't understand. I will say that because it is true.
I know you don't do it MA. However, Snood generalizes, I generalize.
Intrepid wrote:Terry wrote:Intrepid wrote: Terry, you seem to be saying that women are mindless robots who cannot think for themselves. Is that true?
Most of us are quite capable of thinking for ourselves, but some women fail to do so on occasion. They are not mindless robots, but perhaps they lack emotional maturity, do not have the self-control to resist impulses, are too easily persuaded to make bad choices, or under the influence of drugs or alcohol (once again a choice they make, for whatever reasons).
If they lack the emotional maturity to make a decision regarding whether to have sex then they definitely lack the emotional maturity do make a decision as important as having an abortion. IMHO
As you said, they made the choice and it was their's.
Are you suggesting that carrying a child, eating well, not smoking or drinking then giving birth and being responsible for another life for the next 16 years requires less emotional maturity than making the decision to have an abortion?
Eorl,
I know you are asking that of Intrepid, but I am not quite sure I know what you mean.
Well, Intrepid seems to be suggesting that emotionally immature people should not be making important decisions like having abortions, and would rather they dealt with the HUGE responsibilty of having a baby to keep safe and happy and well provided for?
Oh and Terry,
WOW - some wonderful work over the past few pages.
Eorl,
I can't speak for Intrepid, of course, but I am not real sure that is his point. I think the point is if someone is not emotionally stable or mature enough to make a decision about getting pregnant or avoiding it how can they then be considered emotionally stable enough to make the decision of getting an abortion? It can't be both ways. If she is not emotionally stable or mature enough to make the decision then someone must make it for her.
Eorl, 16 years seems to be a rather short time frame for responsible parenthood, but your point is right on.
Eorl wrote:Intrepid wrote:Terry wrote:Intrepid wrote: Terry, you seem to be saying that women are mindless robots who cannot think for themselves. Is that true?
Most of us are quite capable of thinking for ourselves, but some women fail to do so on occasion. They are not mindless robots, but perhaps they lack emotional maturity, do not have the self-control to resist impulses, are too easily persuaded to make bad choices, or under the influence of drugs or alcohol (once again a choice they make, for whatever reasons).
If they lack the emotional maturity to make a decision regarding whether to have sex then they definitely lack the emotional maturity do make a decision as important as having an abortion. IMHO
As you said, they made the choice and it was their's.
Are you suggesting that carrying a child, eating well, not smoking or drinking then giving birth and being responsible for another life for the next 16 years requires less emotional maturity than making the decision to have an abortion?
I am not suggesting that at all.
Eorl wrote:Well, Intrepid seems to be suggesting that emotionally immature people should not be making important decisions like having abortions, and would rather they dealt with the HUGE responsibilty of having a baby to keep safe and happy and well provided for?
You are making incorrect assumptions..again. Momma Angel seems to have understood, why can't you? Oh, and if you think that the responsibility for a child ends at 16, you are wrong.
Momma Angel wrote:With the coming of Christ there was a New Covenant. The old laws were given way to the new.
I posted a reference earlier about this. I told you what it meant to me.
The Bible lays it all out for us. You know by reading God's word.
According to the Bible, Jesus said that he was NOT here to change any of the laws. Do you think that Jesus lied, or that Matthew lied about what Jesus said, or that you might be wrong about what God wants? Do you know of anything in the Bible that says God opposes abortion, or is that another interpretation?
Quote:Matthew 5:17-19
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Terry,
You obviously do not understand that Jesus IS the law. The message has not changed. He IS the law.
snood wrote:Terry, God didn't "kill his own son". That's a twisted way of describing the sacrifice and ressurection of Jesus.
As I understand Christianity, God conceived a son solely for the purpose of having him killed as a blood sacrifice to himself so that he could forgive us for being sinful, which was necessary because it is impossible for God to accept us on our own merits. No matter how hard we try, none of us can ever be good enough for God unless we are magically cleansed by the blood of his son. Have I got that right?
Terry wrote:Momma Angel wrote:With the coming of Christ there was a New Covenant. The old laws were given way to the new.
I posted a reference earlier about this. I told you what it meant to me.
The Bible lays it all out for us. You know by reading God's word.
According to the Bible, Jesus said that he was NOT here to change any of the laws. Do you think that Jesus lied, or that Matthew lied about what Jesus said, or that you might be wrong about what God wants? Do you know of anything in the Bible that says God opposes abortion, or is that another interpretation?
Quote:Matthew 5:17-19
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Jesus said that he has not come to destroy the law, but to fulfil. He does not say that he has come to perpetuate it. To fulfil. To complete it's purpose. He was the end of the law.
Momma Angel, if Jesus is the Law and said that nothing in the Law (as given to Moses) will change as long as the earth is here, why would you believe that any of the old laws have given way to new ones, when he personally denied it? And what do you find in either the old or new testament that makes you think that God/Jesus opposes abortion?
Intrepid, do you believe what it says in Matthew? Jesus clearly said that nothing will disappear from the Law, and that anyone who breaks any of them will be in the lowest caste in heaven. He did not say that he was the "end" of the Law. It amazes me how Christians can read a simple paragraph and come up with an interpretation diametrically opposed to what it actually says.
