Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Nov, 2005 10:47 am
I have tried and tried to post a reply but it keeps giving me all this garbly-dee-gook. On another thread I posted on, it posted it quite a few times!

MODERATORS! HELP!!!!
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Nov, 2005 11:06 am
Well hopefully, the problem has been fixed and I can now post this.

Well good morning everyone!http://web4.ehost-services.com/el2ton1/biggrinsmiley.gif

Let me just inject a pleasant note first thing this morning, ok? It is a beautiful day here in Louisiana and I am watching all these fuzzy little kittens play with their toys!

From reading lots of threads and posts, you can see different facets of the posters. Just as with the Old and New Testament, you have to read more than just one part of the Bible.

We have all lost our tempers at times and we have all probably said things in our frustration and anger. Let's just try to remember that this a very heated topic but that we have been doing remarkably well IMO of keeping it civil the majority of the time.

I thought Foxfyre had started us pretty well at a fresher understanding of things yesterday.

I try to remember that just as hard as it is Anti-Abortionists (like me) to understand just how deeply we believe the fetus is a child and that our Christian beliefs are very sacred to us and we will always stand up for them, it is just as hard for Pro-Choicers to understand that it is the unborn children we are trying to protect and not doing this to take away anyone's rights.

So everyone, please, let's not let our anger get out of hand today? I'm not saying it has already, I can just see the potential for it and I would hate to see it happen again.http://web4.ehost-services.com/el2ton1/heart.gif

And if dys happens to be watching, yes, now it's time for tea and cookies!
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Nov, 2005 11:07 am
Well good morning everyone!http://web4.ehost-services.com/el2ton1/biggrinsmiley.gif

Let me just inject a pleasant note first thing this morning, ok? It is a beautiful day here in Louisiana and I am watching all these fuzzy little kittens play with their toys!

From reading lots of threads and posts, you can see different facets of the posters. Just as with the Old and New Testament, you have to read more than just one part of the Bible.

We have all lost our tempers at times and we have all probably said things in our frustration and anger. Let's just try to remember that this a very heated topic but that we have been doing remarkably well IMO of keeping it civil the majority of the time.

I thought Foxfyre had started us pretty well at a fresher understanding of things yesterday.

I try to remember that just as hard as it is Anti-Abortionists (like me) to understand just how deeply we believe the fetus is a child and that our Christian beliefs are very sacred to us and we will always stand up for them, it is just as hard for Pro-Choicers to understand that it is the unborn children we are trying to protect and not doing this to take away anyone's rights.

So everyone, please, let's not let our anger get out of hand today? I'm not saying it has already, I can just see the potential for it and I would hate to see it happen again.http://web4.ehost-services.com/el2ton1/heart.gif

And if dys happens to be watching, yes, now it's time for tea and cookies!
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Nov, 2005 12:43 am
CalamityJane wrote:


real life,

This is the definition of RICO I have
Quote:
RICO or the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act is a United States law which provides for extended penalties for criminal acts performed as part of an ongoing criminal organization. It was enacted as Title IX of the Organized Crime Control Act of 1970.


Planned Parenthood does not perform criminal acts.



You apparently do not understand my post.
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Nov, 2005 12:49 am
Questioner wrote:
real life wrote:

Really? If being a Christian is something that should be private, then why isn't the same standard applied to Planned Parenthood counsellors?

Why is it only Christians that you seem to think need to sit down and shut up? Freedom of speech for you , but not for others, right?


I think the biggest difference is that people seek out the Planned Parenthood counsellors advice.


Quote:
Planned Parenthood sells abortion services for a tidy fee. They are not quite the altruistic bunch that you may want us to believe. Just because they may con you or other counsellors into working for free doesn't mean that everybody does.


How odd. The Church ALSO collects a tidy fee, are not the altruistic bunch that you may want us to believe. They also manage to con elders and deacons into working for free while the preacher gets to drive his porche 2 blocks to his church-funded house and back.

Quote:
Lots of money is in this business, CalamityJane and we all know that.

Lots of money in the church business isn't there?

Quote:
Planned Parenthood is a multi million dollar organization (much of it tax money).


And church is a multi billion dollar organization, all of it tax free.

Quote:
They have a vested financial interest in keeping abortions happening. Let's tell it how it is, CJ. It's a business.


The church has a vested financial interest in convering more and more people so that it may continue to fill it's coffers.

Tell it how it is, indeed. You're more similar than you know.


So are you saying that Planned Parenthood is a church, and the pro-abortion position is a religion? This certainly seems to be the comparison you are trying to draw. Is it because you are a member of that faith?
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Nov, 2005 12:54 am
Questioner wrote:
real life wrote:

Really? If being a Christian is something that should be private, then why isn't the same standard applied to Planned Parenthood counsellors?

Why is it only Christians that you seem to think need to sit down and shut up? Freedom of speech for you , but not for others, right?


I think the biggest difference is that people seek out the Planned Parenthood counsellors advice.


What difference does it make if a minor "seeks out" PP or not?

In many public schools, a student cannot get an aspirin without parental permission.

Why is it that Planned Parenthood can perform major surgery without parental permission (or even parental notification) in many localities?
0 Replies
 
Eorl
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Nov, 2005 04:14 am
real life....

One reason is to prevent them trying to find a way of doing it without the parents finding out.

...wait...haven't I already said this once...or twice...or...bugger, I lost count.
0 Replies
 
Questioner
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Nov, 2005 08:36 am
real life wrote:

So are you saying that Planned Parenthood is a church, and the pro-abortion position is a religion? This certainly seems to be the comparison you are trying to draw. Is it because you are a member of that faith?


Ok, well that was apparently posted during the bug session yesterday. I went back to check it and it hadn't posted, so I figured it wasn't going to. Otherwise I would have deleted it.

I was Ill, and not making sense.
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Nov, 2005 08:53 am
Too bad that a pregnant woman who makes a decision because she is not feeling well cannot go back and delete that decision.
0 Replies
 
Questioner
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Nov, 2005 09:09 am
Intrepid wrote:
Too bad that a pregnant woman who makes a decision because she is not feeling well cannot go back and delete that decision.


You really have no self respect, do you?
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Nov, 2005 09:12 am
Intrepid wrote:
Too bad that a pregnant woman who makes a decision because she is not feeling well cannot go back and delete that decision.


Do you actually know someone who had an abortion because she was not feeling well, Intrepid? And, I don't mean know of someone or a hypothetical someone, I mean personally know someone who did this?
0 Replies
 
CalamityJane
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Nov, 2005 09:58 am
Intrepid, you give me more and more the impression
that you don't respect women the way they deserve to be
respected.

It is one thing to be anti-abortion and pro-christian, but
it is another to use such derogative terms towards women
and pregnancy.

I don't think we can change anyone's feeling about abortion,
as everyone has a strong stand on it, and that's perfectly
acceptable, at least to me, but please don't assume women
take decisions like this lightly.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Nov, 2005 10:21 am
National Right to Life stats:
Why Do Women Have Abortions?

- a statistical breakdown*
Responses listed as primary reason %

Social Reasons (given as primary reason)
- Feels unready for responsibility 21%
- Feels she can't afford baby 21%
- Concern for how baby would change her life 16%
- Relationship problem 12%
- Feels she isn't mature enough 11%
- Has all the children she wants 8%
- Other reasons 4-5%

TOTAL: 93%

"Hard Cases" (given as primary reason)
- Mother's Health 3%
- Baby may have health problem 3%
- Rape or Incest 1%


TOTAL:

7%


Poll Fact: A June 1999 Wirthlin poll found that 62% of Americans support legal abortion in only three or fewer circumstances: when the pregnancy results from rape or incest or when it threatens the life of the mother.
http://www.nrlc.org/abortion/facts/reasonsabortions.html

These stats are supported internationally by family plannng centers at the Guttmacher Institute:

Woman is concerned about how having a baby could change her life 16%
Woman can't afford baby now 21%
Woman has problems with relationship or wants to avoid single parenthood 12%
Woman is unready for responsibility 21%
Woman doesn't want others to know she has had sex or is pregnant 1%
Woman is not mature enough, or is too young to have a child 11%
Woman has all the children she wanted, or has all grown-up children 8%
Husband or partner wants woman to have an abortion 1%
Fetus has possible health problem 3%
Woman has health problem 3%
Woman's parents want her to have abortion <1%
Woman was victim of rape or incest 1%
Other 3%

(Totals do not add to 100% because of rounding.)
http://www.agi-usa.org/pubs/journals/2411798.html
http://www.pregnantpause.org/numbers/whyabort.htm

and by
92% of Women Cite "Social" or "Other" Reasons
New Study Examines Reasons Women Have Abortions
By Randall K. O'Bannon, Ph.D.

http://www.nrlc.org/news/2005/NRL10/NewStudy.html

And from women's issues:

Abortion Statistics - World
In 54 countries (61% of the world population) abortions are legal.
In 97 countries (39% of the world population) abortions are illegal.
There are approximately 46 million abortions conducted eacy year, 20 million of them obtained illegally.
There are approximately 126,000 abortions conducted each day.

Abortion Statistics - U.S.
Approximately 1,370,000 abortions occur annually in the U.S. according to the Alan Guttmacher Institute. Click here to see the approximate number of abortions in the U.S. per year from 1973-1996. In 2001, 1.31 million abortions took place.
88% of abortions occur during the first 6 to 12 weeks of pregnancy.
60% of abortions are performed on women who already have one or more children.
47% of abortions are performed on women who have already had one or more abortions.
43% of women will have had at least one abortion by the time they are 45 years old (this statistic includes miscarriages in the term "abortion").


Abortion Statistics - Decisions to Have an Abortion (U.S.)
25.5% of women deciding to have an abortion want to postpone childbearing.
21.3% of women cannot afford a baby.
14.1% of women have a relationship issue or their partner does not want a child.
12.2% of women are too young (their parents or others object to the pregnancy.)
10.8% of women feel a child will disrupt their education or career.
7.9% of women want no (more) children.
3.3% of women have an abortion due to a risk to fetal health.
2.8% of women have an abortion due to a risk to maternal health.
http://womensissues.about.com/cs/abortionstats/a/aaabortionstats.htm
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Nov, 2005 10:32 am
Good info, Fox.

Intrepid, I don't see 'because she doesn't feel good' on any of those lists. Your sarcastic inuendo does your cause no benefit.
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Nov, 2005 10:38 am
Foxfyre wrote:
National Right to Life stats:
Why Do Women Have Abortions?

- a statistical breakdown*
Responses listed as primary reason %

Social Reasons (given as primary reason)
- Feels unready for responsibility 21%
- Feels she can't afford baby 21%
- Concern for how baby would change her life 16%
- Relationship problem 12%
- Feels she isn't mature enough 11%
- Has all the children she wants 8%
- Other reasons 4-5%

TOTAL: 93%

"Hard Cases" (given as primary reason)
- Mother's Health 3%
- Baby may have health problem 3%
- Rape or Incest 1%


TOTAL:

7%


Poll Fact: A June 1999 Wirthlin poll found that 62% of Americans support legal abortion in only three or fewer circumstances: when the pregnancy results from rape or incest or when it threatens the life of the mother.
http://www.nrlc.org/abortion/facts/reasonsabortions.html

These stats are supported internationally by family plannng centers at the Guttmacher Institute:

Woman is concerned about how having a baby could change her life 16%
Woman can't afford baby now 21%
Woman has problems with relationship or wants to avoid single parenthood 12%
Woman is unready for responsibility 21%
Woman doesn't want others to know she has had sex or is pregnant 1%
Woman is not mature enough, or is too young to have a child 11%
Woman has all the children she wanted, or has all grown-up children 8%
Husband or partner wants woman to have an abortion 1%
Fetus has possible health problem 3%
Woman has health problem 3%
Woman's parents want her to have abortion <1%
Woman was victim of rape or incest 1%
Other 3%

(Totals do not add to 100% because of rounding.)
http://www.agi-usa.org/pubs/journals/2411798.html
http://www.pregnantpause.org/numbers/whyabort.htm

and by
92% of Women Cite "Social" or "Other" Reasons
New Study Examines Reasons Women Have Abortions
By Randall K. O'Bannon, Ph.D.

http://www.nrlc.org/news/2005/NRL10/NewStudy.html

And from women's issues:

Abortion Statistics - World
In 54 countries (61% of the world population) abortions are legal.
In 97 countries (39% of the world population) abortions are illegal.
There are approximately 46 million abortions conducted eacy year, 20 million of them obtained illegally.
There are approximately 126,000 abortions conducted each day.

Abortion Statistics - U.S.
Approximately 1,370,000 abortions occur annually in the U.S. according to the Alan Guttmacher Institute. Click here to see the approximate number of abortions in the U.S. per year from 1973-1996. In 2001, 1.31 million abortions took place.
88% of abortions occur during the first 6 to 12 weeks of pregnancy.
60% of abortions are performed on women who already have one or more children.
47% of abortions are performed on women who have already had one or more abortions.
43% of women will have had at least one abortion by the time they are 45 years old (this statistic includes miscarriages in the term "abortion").


Abortion Statistics - Decisions to Have an Abortion (U.S.)
25.5% of women deciding to have an abortion want to postpone childbearing.
21.3% of women cannot afford a baby.
14.1% of women have a relationship issue or their partner does not want a child.
12.2% of women are too young (their parents or others object to the pregnancy.)
10.8% of women feel a child will disrupt their education or career.
7.9% of women want no (more) children.
3.3% of women have an abortion due to a risk to fetal health.
2.8% of women have an abortion due to a risk to maternal health.
http://womensissues.about.com/cs/abortionstats/a/aaabortionstats.htm


Hi Foxfyre,

Excellent research. It has been clear for years that over 90% of abortions are done for convenience.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Nov, 2005 10:49 am
In Intrepid's defense, I in fact do know two women who testified (at a NOW rally) they had aboritons because 'they didn't feel good'. When they first got pregnant, they were neutral on the subject, but when they experienced the first morning sickness and began to feel a bit larger around the middle, they decided 'hey, I don't want to do this' and Planned Parenthood arranged them both abortions.
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Nov, 2005 10:58 am
Just curious, Fox. Were these women still in their first trimester?
0 Replies
 
Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Nov, 2005 11:01 am
The point is, the pregnant woman did not want to carry the pregnancy to term. Period. It is really none of our business why.




Quote:
Feels unready for responsibility 21%
- Feels she can't afford baby 21%
- Concern for how baby would change her life 16%
- Relationship problem 12%
- Feels she isn't mature enough 11%
- Has all the children she wants 8%


Personally, I think that the above are damn good reasons to abort. If a woman is unable, unwilling, or too immature to raise a child properly, I think that the best thing is to stop the process before it goes too far.

I really become very angry with people who attempt to tell other people how to run their lives.
0 Replies
 
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Nov, 2005 11:07 am
bottom line, women should be allowed to get abortions
0 Replies
 
Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Nov, 2005 11:09 am
djjd62 wrote:
bottom line, women should be allowed to get abortions


Bottom line, women are allowed, by law to get abortions. The problem are those people who would stick their noses into another person's business, and attempt to change the laws due to their own particular beliefs.
0 Replies
 
 

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