ABORTION.......

Earl,
Just so you know, the English dictionary spells it fetus, and foetus is listed as an alternate spelling. I learned something new today.
Are you a native. Australia is the one foreign country that I would like to live other than the U.S.

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non,

Actually the English spelling is "foetus" and the American local spelling is "fetus".

I'm a native of Australia in the sense that I was born here (as were at least 3 generations before me) My ancestry is mostly Scots, English, Syrian, Lebanese and a few extra bits besides. I have no indigenous background although my brothers' children do. He and his family live an indigenous lifestyle on an island you would think of as a reservation.

Intrepid,

I'm not saying miscarriage justifies anything (It's about the relative value of the life of a foetus) but we've been over this ground....I've promised to try to see your view on this.

If you'll remember I've pointed out my personal opposition to abortion (which seems forgotten quite often by you folks). I just think there are worse things such as the death of teenage mothers through illegal abortions.

If you guys could for one second imagine that you could see a difference between the value of a life of a one-day-old foetus and a 6 year old child (like I do...and I think most folks - probably most pro-lifers)....do you see that everything else I have said naturally follows as right and good FROM THAT perspective?

I think you guys would find it useful to understand WHY people like me think this way, instead of thinking we are demons who run around tearing babies from wombs for laughs.

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I see your point eorl. But I disagree with your answer. I think that instead of allowing the 14 year old girl an abortion, we should set up a program that will allow her to have the baby, and provide emotional and fiscal help for both her and her family. The program could be used to help tell her parents about the pregnancy....and so on.

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Eorl,

I also see your point. I also disagree with your answer. Of course if we didn't think the fetus was a child we would probably accept your position. But, WE DO believe the fetus is a child even at one day old. We (I believe you understand the we I mean here) believe it is a child from the moment of conception.

I don't think any of us mean that YOU (you know I mean those with your views) run around performing abortions for laughs. No one is saying that.

And no, Eorl, I cannot see it as good from that perspective. Wrong is wrong and you cannot make good from it.

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Y'all are wack! Evil or Very Mad

Seriously, there is no discussing this issue. I can see that now (wonder why I couldn't before).

Have fun.....!!

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If there is a better choice, use it.

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flushd wrote:

Y'all are wack!

Seriously, there is no discussing this issue. I can see that now (wonder why I couldn't before).

Have fun.....!!

flushd,

Why so angry (you seem to be)? We just have differing views. That's the way of the world. I don't consider Eorl or anyone that is pro-choice whacked. That's just the way they believe, just as I don't think those that are anti-abortion (anti-choice, etc.) are whacked either. We just have differing views and opinions.

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Quote:

Seriously, there is no discussing this issue. I can see that now (wonder why I couldn't before).

Unless you want to argue what murder is...then your'e right.

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I look at it this way:
The potential of the person. Jesus' parents were not married at the time Mary got pregnant. They were barely teenagers. They were poor. They lived in a time when it wasn't proper to engage in sex unless you were married. Mary and Joseph were running for their lives at the time Christ was born. Not only that but where would they have been without their faith. Joseph had to trust that Mary, his girl friend, was not sleeping around, but that her pregnancy was from God. How tough would that have been? Faith will get us through anything!

The unborn child was Jesus Christ.

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Awesome reply!

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Then there's the one about the ogre that lived under the bridge, or was that a troll?

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I believe that fairytale goes that it was a troll. I think ogres live in castles or the woods.

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Oh yeah probably true, and jesus was born in a manger?

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Yes, there was no room at the inn so Joseph and Mary had to stay in the stables. Jesus was born in a manger, symbolizing His humbleness.

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Besides, everybody knows that ogres are green and live in a swamp.

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And what's wrong with ogres, anyway? I think Shrek is adorable!

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flushd wrote:

It would be impossible to statistically prove how many miscarriages take place. Most women don't talk about it. Etc. Etc. That is a private matter.
Stats are useless here.

I understand having strong feelings against abortion. I honestly do.
The part that I have trouble understanding is why some people feel it is within their right to impose their feelings, beliefs, and will upon others concerning abortion.

Why is it so hard to allow women the chance to make the decisions concerning her own child and body herself? It must take a belief that women are incapable of making intelligent, loving choices in this regard. At least that is how I see it.

Women, in general, are born with the instinct to mother. We are born with an intelligence that helps us along when we are with child. Few women wish harm upon their children. Few women are out to destroy their fetus' on a whim. Women with no feeling for a developing child or a born child are exceptions. This is what I observe.

Does the availability of legal abortion increase the rate of neglectful, abusive mothering? I think not. I think that is simply not true.

If I am correct: the end goal is supposedly the safety and well-being of children and developing children (fetus'). With rational and intelligent understanding, I see no reason why that goal should not be met. Humans have managed to raise children waaay before abortion was a relative safe and medical procedure.

Hi flushd,

Not sure if I have asked you this or not (I've asked others and it's a long thread) .

It seems to me that women are largely kept in the dark as to the medical facts of pregnancy by pro -abortion organizations which don't like to talk about the unborn's heartbeat, brainwaves, etc.

It would seem to me that the full medical facts, including an ultrasound so the mother can see the unborn should be required of any medical practitioner who proposes any type of medical procedure that would affect the unborn.

Informed consent should be mandatory IMO . Do you agree that it should be a requirement that these mother's should be shown:

--the heartbeat , and

--the brainwaves , and

--an ultrasound showing the unborn moving around, sucking the thumb in utero, etc beforehand?

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hi real life.
Yeah, I think we may have spoken about that before: you and I.

I completely agree with that. It should be mandatory to present all the facts and information.

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I just wanted to add:
Here in Manitoba (Winnipeg to be specific) women have two options if she is considering an abortion.

One is to get one through one of the few hospitals which offer it free of cost. First; she must be referred to the hospital through a woman's clinic or doctor. In order to do this, you are required to speak to several health representives (a councillor, a nurseor doctor, and in some cases a pyschologist). You are presented with all the options: raising the child yourself, adoption, abortion. You are required to sit through readings and to show you understand all the information and risks. You are required to wait a specific amount of time before making your final decision. You are shown safe-sex information to help educate against further unwanted pregnancies.

The second option is the private clinic. The only requirement is that you have the money to pay and are within the time spectrum to have a safe abortion.

I used to work as a volunteer at one of the women's resource centers here. It is my personal experience that women having a better chance at protecting their own health and safety; and making healthy choices concerning their child (or developing child in her body) when she is educated and has a safe place to turn to be educated.

Educational efforts and resources deserve more attention.

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flushd wrote:

real life wrote:
flushd wrote:
It would be impossible to statistically prove how many miscarriages take place. Most women don't talk about it. Etc. Etc. That is a private matter.
Stats are useless here.

I understand having strong feelings against abortion. I honestly do.
The part that I have trouble understanding is why some people feel it is within their right to impose their feelings, beliefs, and will upon others concerning abortion.

Why is it so hard to allow women the chance to make the decisions concerning her own child and body herself? It must take a belief that women are incapable of making intelligent, loving choices in this regard. At least that is how I see it.

Women, in general, are born with the instinct to mother. We are born with an intelligence that helps us along when we are with child. Few women wish harm upon their children. Few women are out to destroy their fetus' on a whim. Women with no feeling for a developing child or a born child are exceptions. This is what I observe.

Does the availability of legal abortion increase the rate of neglectful, abusive mothering? I think not. I think that is simply not true.

If I am correct: the end goal is supposedly the safety and well-being of children and developing children (fetus'). With rational and intelligent understanding, I see no reason why that goal should not be met. Humans have managed to raise children waaay before abortion was a relative safe and medical procedure.

Hi flushd,

Not sure if I have asked you this or not (I've asked others and it's a long thread) .

It seems to me that women are largely kept in the dark as to the medical facts of pregnancy by pro -abortion organizations which don't like to talk about the unborn's heartbeat, brainwaves, etc.

It would seem to me that the full medical facts, including an ultrasound so the mother can see the unborn should be required of any medical practitioner who proposes any type of medical procedure that would affect the unborn.

Informed consent should be mandatory IMO . Do you agree that it should be a requirement that these mother's should be shown:

--the heartbeat , and

--the brainwaves , and

--an ultrasound showing the unborn moving around, sucking the thumb in utero, etc beforehand?

hi real life.
Yeah, I think we may have spoken about that before: you and I.

I completely agree with that. It should be mandatory to present all the facts and information.

Thanks flushd. I thought we might have discussed it, but didn't want to go back 200 pages to find out.

I would be very interested to hear what others who still support abortion and have hung on in this thread such as Phoenix, Dyslexia, Eorl, Questioner, and others think about this and why they would or would not support mandatory disclosure and display of heartbeat, brainwaves and ultrasound by any medical practitioner who proposes any procedure which would affect the unborn.

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