British Prime Minister Shows Absurdity Of Lefty Arguments

But the Labour party is a socialist European party Laughing

And, no, it isn't Steve, but Steve knows him a lot better (and much longer) than I do.

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But a European socialist doesn't mean the same thing as an American socialist and you know it.

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Walter Hinteler wrote:

But the Labour party is a socialist European party :lol.

Oh.......you mean you are commies in disguise aligned with Chirac and Schroeder. Laughing

Would you accept Teddy Kennedy and John Kerry if we could possible get them deported? I don't know if they could or would appreciate your brand of humor or whether you could accept their looney ideas but perhaps the two would cancel each other out and you could become real buddies Laughing

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You see, Chirac is a conservative - the socialists are in opposition in France. (The Communist Party in France is, of course, in opposition as well.)

And, yes, traditionally Labour in Britain is more to the left than the German SPD.
'New Labour', however, can be considered a typical social-democratic party nowadays ... with some more left wings than other European social democratic parties, though.

Kennedy and Kerry would be fine with any European conservative party, I think.

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Walter Hinteler wrote:

You see, Chirac is a conservative - the socialists are in opposition in France. (The Communist Party in France is, of course, in opposition as well.)

And, yes, traditionally Labour in Britain is more to the left than the German SPD.
'New Labour', however, can be considered a typical social-democratic party nowadays ... with some more left wings than other European social democratic parties, though.

Kennedy and Kerry would be fine with any European conservative party, I think.

Gee, thanks but I just don't have enough pigeon holes to allow placement of all that info into the correct one. I would love to speak French and German but some people have great difficulty with just English because they don't have enough pigeon holes. There are some items in life that are not definable and I think putting neat little labels on political affiliation is one of those items.

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rayban1 wrote:

Walter Hinteler wrote:
You see, Chirac is a conservative - the socialists are in opposition in France. (The Communist Party in France is, of course, in opposition as well.)

And, yes, traditionally Labour in Britain is more to the left than the German SPD.
'New Labour', however, can be considered a typical social-democratic party nowadays ... with some more left wings than other European social democratic parties, though.

Kennedy and Kerry would be fine with any European conservative party, I think.

Gee, thanks but I just don't have enough pigeon holes to allow placement of all that info into the correct one. I would love to speak French and German but some people have great difficulty with just English because they don't have enough pigeon holes. There are some items in life that are not definable and I think putting neat little labels on political affiliation is one of those items.

But isn't that what you tried to do rayban? The point is that the liberal v conservative divided as it exists in the US is unique to the US. Outside the US the Democrats are seen as very conservative, the Republicans are reactionary and the Neocons are - well - almost unclassifiable in their desire to impose the values they cherish on the rest of the world.

In the US there is no way that a really leftist party would take government. It won't happen in Australia either. But it may happen in Europe.

Comparisons are difficult.

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GF wrote:

But isn't that what you tried to do rayban? The point is that the liberal v conservative divided as it exists in the US is unique to the US. Outside the US the Democrats are seen as very conservative, the Republicans are reactionary and the Neocons are - well - almost unclassifiable in their desire to impose the values they cherish on the rest of the world.

In the US there is no way that a really leftist party would take government. It won't happen in Australia either. But it may happen in Europe.

Comparisons are difficult.

First let's take this.....

GF wrote:

But isn't that what you tried to do rayban

In a word ..... no......I was just talking junk with Walter because he seems to think he can hang a label that everyone will recognize on every political party whether it's here or in Europe and that is impossible. Labels like Republican or Democrat, Liberal and Conservative, are totally inadequate in a complex world or any world for that matter. The only labels that seem to satisfy me are: Right wing wacko or Left wing wacko with the rest of us scattered along the middle. The wackos are what concern me on either side and these are the assholes that I aim my contempt at Another good word for these loonies is Fringophiles on both sides. Then you have the dupes of the wacko/ fringophiles........am I getting anywhere here? If not refer back to my thread on the 100 people who are screwing up America.
If you read that you will soon see who fits in what pigeon hole.

GF wrote:

In the US there is no way that a really leftist party would take government. It won't happen in Australia either. But it may happen in Europe.

I think you are a little late on Europe......the Left has already taken over Europe. Didn't you read what Walter said.......Kennedy and Kerry would be conservatives in Europe. To me they are the nearest thing we have to Left wing wackos who actually hold high office.

Glad to hear that you believe Lefties will never take of Australia.....keep patrolling your beaches for sharks and laggards who want your good life and your beautiful chicks and you won't have our problem. We can't keep em out from north or south......vigilante days are here again. Bronson and Death wish one through four......he is my hero.

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rayban1 wrote:

I was just talking junk with Walter because he seems to think he can hang a label that everyone will recognize on every political party whether it's here or in Europe and that is impossible. Labels like Republican or Democrat, Liberal and Conservative, are totally inadequate in a complex world or any world for that matter.

Like most others outsite the USA (and outsite systems, where you just have two parties), that exactly this is the only possibilty.

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Quote:

The only labels that seem to satisfy me are: Right wing wacko or Left wing wacko with the rest of us scattered along the middle. The wackos are what concern me on either side and these are the **** that I aim my contempt at Another good word for these loonies is Fringophiles on both sides.

Extremes move about. It's good to have extremes because then there are moderates. But what to do when the right wing whackos actually get in power as they have in in the White House and the Congress?

Quote:

I think you are a little late on Europe......the Left has already taken over Europe. Didn't you read what Walter said.......Kennedy and Kerry would be conservatives in Europe. To me they are the nearest thing we have to Left wing wackos who actually hold high office.

Which bits of Europe? Germany has what might be described as social democrat coalition (okay so the Greens are in coalition); Italy has a conservative government; France has a conservative government; Spain has a progressive government; Greece has a conservative government; the Netherlands has a social democrat government etc etc. All different.
Kenney and Kerry are conservative for sure. It's just that with the whacko rightists in power in the US those conservatives actually look to be on the left when they clearly aren't.

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goodfielder wrote:

the Netherlands has a social democrat government etc etc.

The present Netherland government is led by the cabinet Balkenende II, one of the most right-wing cabinets the Netherlands have ever had. :wink:

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Thank you Walter, I stand corrected. I will pay more attention to the Radio Netherlands programme on my local radio station this weekend Very Happy

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rayban1 wrote:

GF wrote:
But isn't that what you tried to do rayban

In a word ..... no......I was just talking junk with Walter because he seems to think he can hang a label that everyone will recognize on every political party whether it's here or in Europe and that is impossible. Labels like Republican or Democrat, Liberal and Conservative, are totally inadequate in a complex world or any world for that matter. The only labels that seem to satisfy me are: Right wing wacko or Left wing wacko with the rest of us scattered along the middle. The wackos are what concern me on either side and these are the **** that I aim my contempt at Another good word for these loonies is Fringophiles on both sides. Then you have the dupes of the wacko/ fringophiles........am I getting anywhere here? If not refer back to my thread on the 100 people who are screwing up America.
If you read that you will soon see who fits in what pigeon hole.

Have you actually read what you type? You say no, you aren't pigeon-holing and labelling. Yet even in your 100 people who are screwing up America, you are doing just that.

Even in this post you are doing just that.

Look down here...

Quote:

GF wrote:
In the US there is no way that a really leftist party would take government. It won't happen in Australia either. But it may happen in Europe.

I think you are a little late on Europe......the Left has already taken over Europe. Didn't you read what Walter said.......Kennedy and Kerry would be conservatives in Europe. To me they are the nearest thing we have to Left wing wackos who actually hold high office.

See? You're calling all these people left wing wackos. The only real left wing wackos would be Communists and no Communist is in power in Europe.

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Wolf wrote:

Have you actually read what you type? You say no, you aren't pigeon-holing and labelling. Yet even in your 100 people who are screwing up America, you are doing just that.

Wolf
Your entire tone is one of exasperation......cool down.....I don't want you in the hospital.

I didn't say that I wouldn't use labels, it's just that the predominate labels used in all our discussions are are no longer valid or accurate. Republican has morphed into conservative or neo-conservative and Democrat has morphed into Liberal/idealist/ pinko. Pragmatist for conservative, and idealist for Liberal doesn't seem to work either. So what do we wind up with.....the political spectrum with right wing wackos on one end and left wing wackos on the other end. Now these are fairly large groups but no one will claim to belong to either group. So what you finish with are fanatics on each end who are actually irrelevant and a very large group in the middle with some on end who gravitate back and forth and on SOME ISSUES actually become fanatics. On abortion which is just one issue some moderates become fanatics. On the environment and global warming, some moderates become fanatics, and so on. Now the general public laughes at all fanatics until reality smacks them in the face with an issue very close to home such as a planned development or at the national level, terrorism, taxes, social security etc.

So from a politicians point of view, IMAGE, of where you stand on the political spectrum is all important. It is political suicide to get too close to one end or the other. So, you have Hillary, making every effort to position herself in the center where she can shift just slightly one way or the other to appeal to one group or the other.

John Kerry's long, long voting record placed him very close to the left wing wacko end so he decided to campaign as a war hero which was an insult to anyone who had served in Vietnam or even knew anyone who served there. This guy thought his debating technique and his golden voice would coupled with hatred for Bush of a very large segment of the electorate would propel him into the WH. It very nearly did had it not been for the real heros of Vietnam.......the Swift Boat Veterans.

So what do you have at the electorate level.......a large clump of hard core Left wingers(intellectuals, academia, news media, etc.) who never cross over to right of center on ANY ISSUE and the same on the other side with a hard core group of Right wingers who never cross over to the left of center on any issue. These would be the Left wing moderates and the right wing moderates. Then you have the true centrists. Two come to mind......John McCain just slightly right and Joe Lieberman just slightly left of center.

Does what I said make any sense? Left wing wackos, leftwing moderates, centrists, right wing moderates, and right wing wackos. Would anyone agree with me? I think these labels are more accurate

No one should think that I'm too serious about all this.......I just like to talk junk sometimes and I don't want to put anyone in the hospital.....Wolf
:wink:

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Quote:

This guy thought his debating technique and his golden voice would coupled with hatred for Bush of a very large segment of the electorate would propel him into the WH. It very nearly did had it not been for the real heros of Vietnam.......the Swift Boat Veterans.

That cracked me up. That mob of Texan bullshit artists are so far up Bush's backside they could just about count every spinal node.

Good try, no cigar :wink:

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goodfielder wrote:

Quote:
This guy thought his debating technique and his golden voice would coupled with hatred for Bush of a very large segment of the electorate would propel him into the WH. It very nearly did had it not been for the real heros of Vietnam.......the Swift Boat Veterans.

That cracked me up. That mob of Texan bullshit artists are so far up Bush's backside they could just about count every spinal node.

Good try, no cigar :wink:

GF.....you're neither a Vietnam Vet nor an American so it would be safe ot say that you nothing about American Politics nor the Swift Boat Vets. You sound a little bit "Wacko". :wink:

Try commenting on somethig about which you have a vague idea.....like perhaps "How to beat the heat in the outback".....or...."How to avoid a Great white while swmming off one of your beautiful beaches.

I promise never to make a comment about Aussie Politics.

PS....Unusual description of a brown noser ......... Laughing

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You really don't want me to launch into a detailed dissection of the lies of the Swift Boat veterans, do you, Rayban? A larger bunch of hacks and liars is hard to imagine outside of the Republican Caucus.

Cycloptichorn

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Being both said vet and an American, i say Goodfielder has that one pegged dead to rights. And it is more than a little puerile to suggest he needs to be either to comment. I can't design and manufacture an automobile, but i know a lemon if i drive one.

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rayban1 wrote:

GF.....you're neither a Vietnam Vet nor an American so it would be safe ot say that you nothing about American Politics nor the Swift Boat Vets. You sound a little bit "Wacko". :wink:

Try commenting on somethig about which you have a vague idea.....like perhaps "How to beat the heat in the outback".....or...."How to avoid a Great white while swmming off one of your beautiful beaches.

I promise never to make a comment about Aussie Politics.

PS....Unusual description of a brown noser .........

Ehem, but you know a lot about Europe and European politics.

Using your logic, you must by a citizen of one of the 41 European countries (The United Kingdom most likely) and - well, although you denied it - a member of the Labour Party.

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Walter wrote:

Using your logic, you must by a citizen of one of the 41 European countries (The United Kingdom most likely) and - well, although you denied it - a member of the Labour Party.

Walter.....it seems you have mis-interpreted every thing I have said...........I just have a great admiration for Tony Blair. Everything else was meant to throw you off track. Maybe you should face facts ...... your labels just don't work anymore

How do you like my labels? If I interpret what you say correctly, most people in Europe would fall into my Left wing moderate group and the rest in the Left wing Wacko group?

Correction: There is of course the right wing wacko group....the fascists.

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You might be correct with your personal labels.

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British Prime Minister Shows Absurdity Of Lefty Arguments

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