Are You Part of the Problem or Part of the Solution?

It is not surprising that a particular poster on this forum disagrees with even giving rule #2 a chance. Since rules 1 through 6 of the TOS are consistently ignored as well. If one is going to use profanities, they should have the balls to type the word instead of disguising it. That is an admission that it is not acceptable in the first place. Some people just do not know how to act in a respectable society.

Give rule #2 all the "chance" you want. It doesn't work...because it doesn't work. It is, in fact, counterproductive to any kind of society.

Nobody in this thread is truly interested in following rule #2...and if you were...you would soon see that it is inherently self-contradictory.

But one needs a brain to see that and the integrity to acknowledge it....something obviously in short supply in you, Intrepid.

And if you think I am "disguising" anything...or that I do not "have the balls" to do something...you are as sadly mistaken as you are petty.

In any case, I am sorry you do not know how to act in a respectful society. Try to work on that.

No wonder Christianity is such a cesspool...with people like you defending it.

Frank,

I totally do not get you. In one thread you seem to be making an effort to be more polite and compromising. Then, I turn around and in another thread you flat out become that RKK again! (RKK is the term we are using in the UPN for those that try to bash others and their beliefs.)

Frank, you keep saying Law Number 2 will not work. Well, you want to know why Law Number 2 will not work? And you want it without sugar, do you? Ok, fella. It won't work because those who absolutely refuse to put aside their egotistical natures and consider what is good for the common good. It won't work because there are those who absolutely refuse to follow the rules just so they can cause dissention and controversy. It won't work because there are those that refuse to offer helpful suggestions to change the Law so it will work.

Then there are those that refuse to even try to understand the rules. There are those that believe rules are meant to be broken, bent, twisted, and distorted for someone's ego.

As Di stated, IT'S A GAME! IT'S A GAME! IT'S A GAME! When you play cards, monopoly, backgammon, etc., there are rules to play the game! Do you try to change the rules in those games too?

I am going to put this straight out there to you, Frank. I am a middle-aged woman who happens to want to be able to accomplish something good in my life. I feel that if I can help anyone, someone, see that there are solutions out there if we find them together than I have done something! I ask the questions I ask because I want to know things. I thought up this "very simple" little Nation to see if a small group of people can make it grow and solve some of the pitfalls that we all encounter in this world.

I am not looking for Utopia. I know that there will be changes to these three laws that I will personally probably not like. But, I am trying to keep to the Principles before personalities law.

Now, if you don't like our Game, then don't play. Go make your own game. If you decide to stay in our game, then abide by the rules.

Now, I suggest that we have all gotten a bit off the purpose of this thread and have seemingly broken law number two in our small or large way, let's start over.

There is the UPN. There are three laws. The punishment for breaking the law is life in imprison. Period. Now, can we get on with the game with the rules as stated?

And Frank, if you will notice, not once did I call you a name. Not once did I call your ideas or beliefs a name. Angry? You bet! I get angry at those that refuse to follow the rules and try to cause problems for those that are trying to follow them.

So, do you want to play or not?

What a cool game. Who's winning?

LMAO! Who's winning?

We haven't even gotten to roll the dice yet!

Good to see you Kickycan!

The prisons in the UPN must be getting very crowded. How many now are sitting in death row?

just me and frank so far. perhaps we will get a trial before being executed (but I doubt it) which rule applies to this situation?

Finally!

I just couldn't imagine why no one questioned the punishment for breaking the laws! The laws provided only one form of punishment no matter how small the crime! The laws did not provide for the fact that we are all human. The laws assumed you had to be perfect or you are banished to prison. Thank you, Sunlover!

Now, we can really get somewhere. So, how do you propose we change this? What is a solution? Do we amend the law? Do we change the punishment?

Way to go Sunlover!

Kisses,

Momma Angel

All right! Dyslexia, perhaps you could get with Frank and with Sunlover and suggest a change or amendment to the laws?

I realized the UPN asking anyone to take an oath to obey the laws and their punishment was an either or thing. Just black and white. So, we had to decide if we would at least be willing to try. Which, I take participation in our scenario as a willingness here.

Now, remember, the UPN is a brand new country with only three laws and as the UPN grows, the laws will have to grow also.

Believe me, I love hearing from the dissenters as well as from those that agree. It is going to take all of us to make the UPN grow. It's not going to be a paradise or utopia. It's going to be what we as citizens make of it. So, let's hear some ideas on how to amend, change, abolish, etc., what it is you think we need to do!

Thank you for your input!

First you need a constitution. Remember, the 3 laws you propose was the extent of "the law" in "Old Europe" prior to 1700's. Pickpockets and petty thieves were hanged for the public's entertainment right along with the murderers and-the-like with same punishment for those in the wrong religion, or even opinion.

Let's form a collective and get moving on this.

ruel 1. don't hit
rule 2. play nice
rule 3. share your toys
violation of any of thee above results in the guilty (after a trial) always wearing polyester leisure suits while in public.

Now you're talking Sunlover! An excellent idea. But, keep in mind that until the laws are amended, changed, abolished, etc., they must be adhered to. So, definitely, let's form a collective and get moving on this!

So, let's write our constitution. Everyone that is participating, can you come up with something you would like to have in the constitution? For a start, let's all just pick one thing. I think if we get going with a vast amount of suggestions from each of us, we can get bogged down. Remember, we are a brand new nation. We are building the foundation for our nation. And, for the sake of this thread, let's leave religion out of our scenario. Once our nation grows, I am sure if there seems to be a need for religion, we can introduce it. This is not a scenario for showing anything other than the possibility (I prefer to think it can be done) that each of us can develop solutions to problems. So, the only laws there are right now in the UPN are the UPN Three. But, there is no law to prevent us from changing the laws or their punishment.

Sunlover, you are taking the lead here, good job. So, what do you say citizens of the UPN? What one thing would you like to be in our constitution? Once we get a few ideas to this, we can discuss, and then vote.

I greatly appreciate anyone who is willing to participate.

Kisses,

Momma Angel

MA,
I go back to page 2 where the new citizens must take an oath to enter and live in the UPN. I have seen at least 2 who have opted out without taking the oath. I suppose that it is implied that the rest of us took the oath. Is this a requirement for admittance?

The first item in the constitution would have to be something to get everybody out of jail so that there will be somebody to write it. ;-)

LMAO, Intrepid!

Ok, everyone in jail is granted a pardon! The jails are empty! Clean slate for everyone! Amnesty for all!

If you take the oath, to become a citizen, you have the right to vote. If you do not take the oath, you have the right to be in the United People's Nation, but you do not have the right to vote. You must adhere to the law even if you are not a citizen (just as in any country). So, even if you don't like the laws, you can still take the oath as long as you agree to follow them. You can take the oath knowing you don't like the laws as they are written and have every intention of lobbying to amend, change, or abolish them. You just have to agree to abide by them. So, you really lose nothing by agreeing to the UPN Three. It is a matter of choice.

Okay, so, here is the oath for becoming a citizen of the United People's Nation.

I wish to become a citizen of the United People's Nation. I agree to abide by the United People's Nation's Three Laws. I understand the punishment for breaking these laws is, if after being found guilty by a trial by jury, life imprisonment. By agreeing to this, I am given the right to vote, the right to lobby to amend, abolish, or change the laws. I agree that I will abide by these laws even as I am lobbying to amend, change, or abolish them.
This I swear.

And remember, no one person has any more power than another in the UPN. We all start at the same position.

Now, as you can see, you are given some leeway here. Now, all who agree to the oath, please state Yes. All those who do not agree to the oath, please state No.

Momma Angel states, "Yes."

Yes

XPRMNTR states "yes" (on the condition that we can appoint Dys the Court Jester; the UPN needs comic relief).

We will definitely need comic relief!

But, as a brand new nation with no constitution, we can't appoint anybody anything yet! But, I will still assume you state yes?

Sure! Soon as we have our first Continental Congress , I'll re-propose my idea.

Ok, you got it! We need to round up some more citizens!

There'll probably be lots of immigrants when they see how much fun the UPN is with Dys' perennial party-spirit (oops, that wasn't meant as a double-entendre! )