Are You Part of the Problem or Part of the Solution?

If Frank will pretend that Hitler does not exist, I will pretend that Bush does not exist. Then we can carry on in the vein with which this thread appears to have been written. ;-)

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Frank,

Why are you trying to make this an issue between me and you? I left that other thread because of the very same thing. I am trying to learn something about people here and you jump in and start your attack on me again and it takes the focus off the discussion at hand.

If you have a problem with me, well, then you have a problem with me. If I had PM rights, I'd deal with you on the side with that but I don't have those rights yet. Let's not drag that into it, ok?

And, we are NOT, I REPEAT NOT, discussing religion in this scenario! Nowhere does it state that or even come close to that. Yes, call me close minded on some of my beliefs. What good is a belief system if you are so willing to change it everytime someone tells you that you are wrong? To me, that's just jumping on the old bandwagon.

So, let me put it to you this way Frank, you are in the UPN here in this thread. Those that choose to participate in it are going with that. It's just a scenario! It's about choices. It's kind of like, "America, love it or leave it!"

The rules are the rules and if you decide to be in the UPN you follow the rules. And if you don't follow the rules, you suffer the consequences. Now, if you want to get your butt out of the UPN jail, will you lighten up and just go with us here?

If not, we're going to call a cabinet meeting and vote to deport your butt! Laughing

Truce?

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Intrepid...

...unless you are brain dead....and I do not think you are...

...you have to see that MA is trying to make a point about respect here.

I am trying to establish that many of the assumptions she is making...are baloney.

Repect is not given...it is earned.

Some things...some people....some ideas...some beliefs...

...NOT ONLY DO NOT DESERVE RESPECT...

...but earn scorn.

A person who indescriminately serves up respect where scorn is due...

...dishonors him/herself.

Sorry you seem to be having so much trouble seeing that...or acknowledging it, as the case may be.

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Thank you Intrepid. No Hitler, no bush, no war, no all that controversial stuff. Our UPN is not even out of it's infancy stage yet!

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Momma Angel wrote:

Frank,

Why are you trying to make this an issue between me and you? I left that other thread because of the very same thing. I am trying to learn something about people here and you jump in and start your attack on me again and it takes the focus off the discussion at hand.

If you have a problem with me, well, then you have a problem with me. If I had PM rights, I'd deal with you on the side with that but I don't have those rights yet. Let's not drag that into it, ok?

And, we are NOT, I REPEAT NOT, discussing religion in this scenario! Nowhere does it state that or even come close to that. Yes, call me close minded on some of my beliefs. What good is a belief system if you are so willing to change it everytime someone tells you that you are wrong? To me, that's just jumping on the old bandwagon.

So, let me put it to you this way Frank, you are in the UPN here in this thread. Those that choose to participate in it are going with that. It's just a scenario! It's about choices. It's kind of like, "America, love it or leave it!"

The rules are the rules and if you decide to be in the UPN you follow the rules. And if you don't follow the rules, you suffer the consequences. Now, if you want to get your butt out of the UPN jail, will you lighten up and just go with us here?

If not, we're going to call a cabinet meeting and vote to deport your butt!

Truce?

You are being especially intolerant here, MA. But I've come to expect that from you.

I stand by everything I've said here....and to be honest, I think what I am saying makes a hell of a lot more sense than some of the crap you've raved over so far.

IF you truly want to learn, MA....start paying more attention to what I am saying.

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Frank,

Just how much respect do you think you are earning? You can't even let a few people have a discussion about a hypothetical situation and see where it goes.

And quite frankly Frank, I don't give two hoots as to whether you respect my beliefs or not. Big whoop for you! And you have the whole point of this thread wrong.

It is not about respect. It is about talking responsibility for the choices you make. You are given the rules. You are made to understand the punishment for the rules. If you choose to break the rules you serve the punishment.

We are talking about trying to find solutions to problems that arise in a society.

Now, please, one more time, will you lighten up and just let this go where it goes?

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The only thing I am becoming intolerant of is your verbal attacks on me, but since I am a citizen of the UPN and do not wish to break the laws by doing the same to you, I am hereby turning you into the authorities of the UPN.

Now, to the citizens of the UPN here, I propose that Frank is breaking Law Number 2 and Law Number 3. As citizens of the UPN, we have a choice to make. Do we let one person continue to break our laws and cause dissention or do we hold court and try the case? This is our problem, what is our solution?

See Frank, I knew you'd be instrumental here!

Kisses,

Momma Angel

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What is the UPN??? I am still sticking with the problem is that there is no solution!! Maybe the problem is the people making the rules... You guys lost me back at page 2 I think.....hmm... ok, carry on

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In the beginning of the thread a scenario was presented. The United People's Nation is the UPN. It only has three laws. If you will go back to the beginning you can get filled in. It's just all for the purpose of finding solutions to problems.

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Nancy and I are leaving for a day at the beach. You folks aren't looking for solutions...or answers. You are looking to have your nonsense prevail.

But what the hell....I won't even think about it while basking in the sun.

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littlek wrote:

Nope, I would be sent to prison during any given commute.

Oh me too!! We must be the only people on the road who can drive!!

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I really hope those of you who have participated so far in this scenario will continue to do so.

I was really enjoying all the differing views. And, I apologize for getting sidetracked there for a few!

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I think we can see how the UPN would not work given the human nature of the inhabitants. Already, momma's believes have been compromised by Frank who has broken the rules and has caused momma and perhaps me to fall into the trap of breaking them too. When you consider that 3 or 4 people would have a hard time agreeing on a meal if everyone had to eat the same thing, how will society ever learn to get along and tolerate each other. Everybody has believes, ideals and either tolerance or intolerance of certain things. In some cases, these are easy to overlook in others and in other cases they are not. I think the whole thing comes down to tolerance. The best that we can hope for is that we do not kill each other in the process. The UPN would now be the inmates running the jail.

Have a nice day at the beach Frank... and try not to kick sand in some old lady's face.

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Intrepid,

I totally understand your take on this. But, I would still like to go with it for a bit. My point to the whole thing is to see if people today are still willing to stand up for what is right and not fall into the trap of jumping on the bandwagon instead of holding steadfast. I know the UPN could never be a perfect nation. I don't expect that. I was enjoying those that had issues with the three rules discussing what those issues were and asked them to provide amendments to the rules, etc.

I believe that great good can be accomplished by mankind still. And dang, I was really trying hard not to break the law! I guess I did let the personalities law get in there didn't I?

Frank definitely has issues with me and he most assuredly has issues with Christians. A lot of people do.

I was just hoping that more would jump in there and just say, "Hey, Frank. You're breaking the law here." It was just a scenario. None of it was real. I don't understand why Frank felt he had to jump in there and wreak havoc. Well, I have my opinions about it though.

I really do hope that you will consider continuing with this thread. From all of the posts I have read, I think you could be really helpful in this scenario. And, I knew we would have some that would balk at some of this. I like the ones that are seeing the humor in it. And, I think it's pretty cool that even though some say they wouldn't take the oath, they are still abiding by the laws.

So, how about it everyone? Can we please try to pick up where we left off before the RKK (Resident King Kong - I just love that phrase!) jumped in? And I don't mean that in any disrespectful way at all. That is what we call the criminals in the UPN! Laughing

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Momma Angel wrote:

I don't understand why Frank felt he had to jump in there and wreak havoc.

All I did was to give an opinion. My opinion is that your second law is absurd...unworkable...and counterproductive to a decent society.

You immediately jumped on me about my opinion.

What is your problem....besides being extremely illogical?

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Frank,

As I have stated in other threads and will do so in every thread of yours from now on, I am not going to address you any further.

You gain far too much pleasure from rebuking others and putting down their beliefs when they do not agree with you.

You interrupted our civil discussion intentionally with your "opinion" to cause trouble.

You stated in another thread that this is what you live for. You, yourself, told me you have been tossed out of A2K twice. I wonder why that is?

This is my last post to you in this thread.

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Frank Apisa wrote:

KiwiChic wrote:
geeez chill Apisa and read the thread properly

If you have something to point out to me, Kiwi...point it out.

I read the thread...and I've read it properly.

My comments and questions hold.

well I can see you would not last long in this 'Pretend' nation???
it appears your only brain process is visual, as shown in this case any use of thought expansion as in reading between the lines and obvious lack of imagination is nil in your world......how dull.
Got my point now? :wink:

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Kiwi,

Well, you can see where I am with my above post.

I am hoping that the others will still want to participate in this discussion. I feel we were on our way to something.

I think the problems of today may seem rather insurmountable to some. I was hoping by starting fresh and brand new, we could see where changes can be made. I chose those three rules because they are pretty basic and don't involve huge legal and political issues.

I really hope that you will continue in this thread with me and encourage the others to continue also.

Perhaps if others can see that by making small changes in things they can then effect larger ones.

I believe people want things better. I believe people want to do what is basically moral. All too often it seems we are faced with bashing our heads up against a brick wall and eventually it starts to hurt enough you stop.

But, everyone, please, hang in there. This can not only be a learning experience but it can be fun. Think of it! We have our own country and we are in charge here. We can make the laws, amend the laws, or totally change the laws.

So, let's hear from some of you!

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Momma Angel wrote:

Frank,

As I have stated in other threads and will do so in every thread of yours from now on, I am not going to address you any further.

You gain far too much pleasure from rebuking others and putting down their beliefs when they do not agree with you.

You interrupted our civil discussion intentionally with your "opinion" to cause trouble.

You stated in another thread that this is what you live for. You, yourself, told me you have been tossed out of A2K twice. I wonder why that is?

This is my last post to you in this thread.

I honestly am not sure if I am more put off by your hypocrisy....your inability to think logically...or the fact that you are such a crybaby.

If I ever decide, I'll be sure to let you know.

In any case...your law #2 not only will not work in your pretend scenario...it is almost death for any real life situation in which it plays a part.

Respect for others views is all bullshyt. You most assuredly do not respect mine...and I do not respect yours.

I would hope we both would not respect the views of people like Hitler, Stalin, Hussein, Amin and the like.

My views on Christianity are these:

I consider religion in general...and Christianity in particular to be a blight...a cancer on the planet.

I consider the relgion...and the god...to be laughable when not lamentable.

HOW THE HELL CAN I SHARE THAT and do it respectfully?

I am willing to debate this issue with anyone...which brings me to the challenge you chose to duck.

Using the Bible...I will provide a passage showing the god of the Bible in action...on the scene...doing and saying...

...where the god is showing jealousy, revenge, and other low-life emotions...and where the god is either threatening someone, punishing someone, killing someone....or ordering followers to kill other.

All you have to do is to furnish a passage each time that shows the god of the Bible on the scene where the thrust of his presence is not in the direction I've just indicated...or where the god is showing love, consideration, understanding, compassion.

You will not take that challenge...and neither will any of the others...because with the minor exception of one instance in Genesis....EVERY TIME THE GOD OF THE BIBLE is on the scene...all or most of the things I mentioned are happening.

The first five books of the Bible describe a murderous, barbaric god....and the remainder of the Bible is devoted to people telling us what a loving, kind, compassion god it is.

Abject fear...and denial that is palpable.

You want to reject my views...even though I am able to back them up...and you want to castigate me for telling the truth....and then you have the nerve to lecture me on being respectful.

Your views are a joke.

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KiwiChic wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
KiwiChic wrote:
geeez chill Apisa and read the thread properly

If you have something to point out to me, Kiwi...point it out.

I read the thread...and I've read it properly.

My comments and questions hold.

well I can see you would not last long in this 'Pretend' nation???
it appears your only brain process is visual, as shown in this case any use of thought expansion as in reading between the lines and obvious lack of imagination is nil in your world......how dull.
Got my point now? :wink:

IF you cannot compose a paragraph that makes more sense than this one...I fail to see how you can expect anyone to "get your point."

No, I do not get your point.

Get some help...and explain it to me.

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Are You Part of the Problem or Part of the Solution?

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