7
   

get on a train without paying the ticket

 
 
Gino120
 
Reply Wed 29 Sep, 2021 06:11 pm
hi, I would like to know if there is a way to get on a train and make the journey without paying the ticket, and not be discovered by the controllers.
can you help me?
 
maxdancona
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 29 Sep, 2021 06:17 pm
@Gino120,
Are you White (yes, it matters)?

Being White or Asian makes a big difference. Being a women would also help (to a lesser extent). If you look Black, Middle Eastern or Hispanic, you are much more likely to be confronted.

Besides that, I would make sure my hair was cut conservatively and that I was well dressed. Do that, and you are unlikely to be questioned.

Gino120
 
  0  
Reply Wed 29 Sep, 2021 06:27 pm
@maxdancona,
what if they ask me for a ticket?
maxdancona
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 29 Sep, 2021 06:32 pm
@Gino120,
If you do this, you are taking a risk.

Probably you will just be asked to leave the train if you are caught. You might be arrested (it would be a misdemeanor I think).

I think I could get away with it. I am a White professional looking man, I would just fumble around with my papers and look flustered that I couldn't find that receipt. You would have to be able to sell your story confidently.

In my experience (it has been a while), the conductors are overworked and it didn't seem it would be that difficult to slip through just by saying "it was here somewhere". Law enforcement isn't the part of their job they generally want to focus on.



0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Sep, 2021 08:49 pm
I was working as a railroad ticket agent for the NYLBRR as a young man when a very tiny conductor manhandle a very large drunken customer into my office and search him until he came up with the ticket cash from the man pockets!!!!

Then the conductor got back on his train leaving me with a very very large drunken customer and a need to try to explained to the train master over the reporting phone why that train was so late in leaving my station..
0 Replies
 
tsarstepan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Sep, 2021 09:49 pm
@Gino120,
Gino120 wrote:

what if they ask me for a ticket?

Throw yourself off the train? Just a suggestion.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  3  
Reply Thu 30 Sep, 2021 06:25 am
There's a programme about fare dodgers on the London Underground.

It's rarely a one off, some have been doing it for years, and end up going to jail.

It's theft, and it affects all of us, our fares are more as a result.
0 Replies
 
Linkat
 
  3  
Reply Thu 30 Sep, 2021 06:52 am
@Gino120,
Gino120 wrote:

hi, I would like to know if there is a way to get on a train and make the journey without paying the ticket, and not be discovered by the controllers.
can you help me?


Why would you want to do this? It is basically stealing and yes you can get arrested or fined for it. For what? To save a few bucks - just plain old dumb. Suck it up and pay the $3 or whatever.
maxdancona
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 30 Sep, 2021 06:58 am
@Linkat,
I think he is talking about Amtrak (or something equivalent). Fares on these trains can be several hundreds of dollars.

Public transportation should be free. I don't have a problem with fare evaders. Arresting someone for hopping on the subway is ridiculously bad social policy.
Linkat
 
  2  
Reply Thu 30 Sep, 2021 07:59 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

I think he is talking about Amtrak (or something equivalent). Fares on these trains can be several hundreds of dollars.

Public transportation should be free. I don't have a problem with fare evaders. Arresting someone for hopping on the subway is ridiculously bad social policy.



Either way for a couple of hundred dollars you want to possibly get arrested? Stupid. Save up money like other people and pay or take a bus - they are significantly less.

I do have a problem with fare evaders. Fare rates are high because people do this so everyone else pays for your theft. Want many places have in place instead is reduced fares or even free monthly passes for those of lower income.

Whether you believe that public transportation should be free or not is another issue - if it is currently not free -and you fare jump you are breaking the law. As an adult you know the rules - you would have to be straight out dumb not to as any subway I have been in pretty much any where in the US and in other countries - they clearly post things regarding the illegality of fare jumping and the repercussions - you know what the punishment is - so you decide if it is worth the risk for a few bucks.
maxdancona
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 30 Sep, 2021 08:24 am
@Linkat,
I am happy to break laws with which I disagree. And I am pretty sure you are too... the next time you drive your car, consider how many times you drive above the posted speed limit.

Public policy is a matter of setting laws and consequences with the understanding that people will break the laws. We used to have debtors' prisons. Not paying your debts is still against... but we as a society realized that putting people in jail for being poor is not only cruel, it is idiotic as social policy.

We made drinking alcohol legal when we realized that people drank it anyway and that the social costs of enforcing the law were too high. The same with marijuana.

I don't buy this "the law is the law" thing. Everyone breaks the law, the question is one of social policy.
maxdancona
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 30 Sep, 2021 08:28 am
Of course my personal morality has a lot to say about which laws I choose to follow.

I am happy to take my chances with a parking meter when I don't have coins in my car. I know I am breaking the law, and I am happy to take my chances.

I never park in a handicap spot. This is because of my personal belief that doing so would be immoral, it has the possibility of causing harm to someone. A while ago I was with someone who happened to have a handicapped permit (belonging to someone else). They parked in a handicapped spot... this really bothered me. Even though we had a legal sticker, it still violated my personal morality.

I rely on my personal morality much more than I rely on the letter of the law. There have been several times when the law and my personal morality have conflicted... in these cases I have no problem breaking the law.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 30 Sep, 2021 08:35 am
And specific to public transportation (sorry you got me on a rant)...

Fare evasion is a public good. Yes, it is better for you, and for society at large, for someone to hop on a bus without paying then for them to drive.

I live in Watertown, MA. There is a decent bus route that goes into town and from there I have fairly good public transportation to the Boston area. I shouldn't need to step in my car for anything.

However, it costs more for me to take public transportation than it does for me to hop in my car. Tell me how that makes sense? And... I drive partially because there is an economic incentive for me to use my car rather than public transportation.

If I snuck on the bus without paying, this would benefit society at large. Despite being against the law, this change in my behavior would be better in every way. But alas, I don't because driving is legal and driving is cheaper and so I drive.
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Sep, 2021 09:36 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

I am happy to break laws with which I disagree. And I am pretty sure you are too... the next time you drive your car, consider how many times you drive above the posted speed limit.



I did not say don't break the law - what I said it is stupid to do so in this situation for a few bucks. So if someone wants to save a few dollars and risk being fined or even arrested then do so - personally I think it is stupid. And it also results in me, paying higher fees so another reason that I do not like it.

Same as driving above the speed limit - as a driver I know the rules - I also know the rules if I get stopped that I would likely pay a fine. It is up to me as a grown adult to weigh the risk reward. My driving 5 miles over the speed limit though is not costing you more money in fares.

One other thing to add - it probably is more expensive to drive your car - when you factor everything in - car insurance, wear and tear on your car...not just gas and parking. If you did not own a car and simply bought a monthly bus pass - it probably would be cheaper (especially knowing the insurance rates as a resident of Watertown).
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Sep, 2021 09:42 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:


However, it costs more for me to take public transportation than it does for me to hop in my car. Tell me how that makes sense?



Maybe because of all the fare evaders - had to raise prices so high - if everyone paid then there would be less a need to raise fares.

Deciding to commit theft because you think something is too expensive is basically what you are promoting.

Heck food prices have been rising so high - it is cheaper to eat at McD's than to buy food at the grocery store and make my own so how does that make sense? So food at the grocery store should then be free! Similar logic - either that or I am ok with stealing from the store since it is more expensive than fast food.

Any one can make up logic that fits their own personal values (or lack thereof) - but it does not mean such logic is well "logical".
maxdancona
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 30 Sep, 2021 09:43 am
@Linkat,
Quote:
And it also results in me, paying higher fees so another reason that I do not like it.


Please explain how this results in higher fees?
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Sep, 2021 09:49 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

Quote:
And it also results in me, paying higher fees so another reason that I do not like it.


Please explain how this results in higher fees?



Because for everyone rider that jumps the gate and does not pay their share is x number of dollars less in earnings for the subway. The less they earn - the more they increase their fares in order to break even.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  -3  
Reply Thu 30 Sep, 2021 09:52 am
@Linkat,
We are cross posting....

There are three possibilities here. I am listing these in order of preference.

1. A person can pay their fare and ride the bus.
2. A person can evade their fare and ride the bus
3. A person can choose not to ride the bus.

I want more people to ride the bus. I certainly want more people to ride the bus for free if that means that they won't buy a car. Incidentally, having one more person on the bus costs basically nothing

There are also issues here of class and race. A bus fare costs $3.40... this is almost nothing to me. That is why I don't personally evade fares when I take the bus (which is rare these days, but I do take the bus on occasion to go into Boston to avoid parking costs).

I assume the people who are evading fares are less well off then I am. I have no problem subsidizing their fares. When one more person steps on the bus. In fact it is basically free to have one more person ride the bus. I want more people to ride the bus... it is good for the environment and for society at large. Why should I care if someone gets on without paying?

I want my taxes to go up to pay for free public transportation. That might be why I have no problem with fare evaders.


0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 30 Sep, 2021 09:57 am
Fare evasion is a way to combat global warming.

If you want to take serious action to address global warming, yet you are unwilling to subsidize public transportation for other people... there is a basic contradiction here.
Linkat
 
  2  
Reply Thu 30 Sep, 2021 10:05 am
@maxdancona,
I repeat :

Any one can make up logic that fits their own personal values (or lack thereof) - but it does not mean such logic is well "logical".
 

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