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Spring Forward Early, Fall Back Late?

 
 
Reply Sat 23 Jul, 2005 07:46 am
Spring Forward Early, Fall Back Late?
Lawmakers Add Daylight Savings Extension to Energy Bill Before Congress
By Wendy Koch
USA TODAY

Rep. Edward Markey, D-Mass., co-authored the measure. Lawmakers said they hoped to complete the energy legislation next week.

(July 22) -- Good news, golfers and after-school soccer players: Congress may give you four extra weeks a year of longer days in which to play.

The prospect of more daylight time was advanced Thursday when lawmakers agreed to add a four-week extension of the practice to an energy bill.

Daylight-saving would start three weeks earlier than usual, the second Sunday of March, and end a week later, the second Sunday of November.

"Daylight-saving time is a fantastically effective spending program," says Michael Downing, author of the book Spring Forward: The Annual Madness of Daylight Saving Time.

"You give Americans an extra hour of daylight, and they go outdoors," he says. "And when they go outdoors, they spend money."

An extension costs the U.S. government little or nothing, but it creates huge economic ripple effects. In favor are retailers and recreation groups, including the Sporting Goods Manufacturing Association and the National Golf Course Owners Association, which expect a boom in business.

The American Transport Association, which represents the nation's airlines, opposes it. The group says it would cost airlines millions in lost connections and uncompetitive schedules abroad. After it objected, Congress scaled back an initial two-month extension to one month and put off implementation until 2007.

The debate over daylight-saving time is about more than money.

Anne Weselak, president of the National Parent Teacher Association, says an extension means more kids would go to school in the dark. They would have trouble crossing the street, drivers might not see them, and abductions would be easier, she says.

David Prerau, author of Seize the Daylight, says the number of accidents involving kids going to school rose after daylight-saving time was last extended, in 1986. However, he says, that was more than offset by a drop in accidents after school.

Who Could Be Affected?

Some groups have said they'd support extending daylight hours into the evening, while others have said it would hurt them.

Prerau says an extension would save energy, which is why it was added to the energy bill. He worked on a Department of Transportation study in the mid-1970s that estimated that daylight-saving time saves 1% of Americans' energy consumption.

Downing says claims of energy savings are outdated and unproved. He says that when daylight extends into the evening, Americans drive more and use more gas.

For decades, a mere one-hour shift in the nation's daylight has sparked vociferous debate, about winners and losers, costs and benefits.

Hollywood feared people would spend less time inside watching movies.

In the 1930s, movie mogul Harold Franklin, then-president of Fox-West Coast, said that daylight-saving time cut theater receipts 10%-30% and warned that it "has unlimited possibilities for evil to us."

Proponents, beginning with Benjamin Franklin, have included department store magnates, 7-Eleven, sporting groups and even candy makers, who once sent pumpkins filled with candy to senators so they would endorse daylight-saving on Halloween.

In 1986, when Congress last extended it, the barbecue industry estimated its sales in grills and charcoal would rise $150 million yearly. Drive-in movie theaters were opposed, arguing that it would cut ticket sales.

For many Americans, though, daylight-saving time is about lifestyle, not economics.

Downing, skeptical of energy savings, says he nevertheless loves his long summer evenings.

"With daylight-saving time, people really do spend less time in their homes," he says.

"Most people adapt fairly quickly" to a one-hour change, says Ann Romaker at the Sleep Disorders Center at St. Luke's Hospital in Kansas City.

But she says the minority of Americans who are "true morning people" do not - and will miss their sunshine.

Rep. Edward Markey, D-Mass., who proposed the extension, says daylight-saving time makes most people smile. "We all just feel sunnier after we set the clocks ahead," he says.
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 2,387 • Replies: 43
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JPB
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jul, 2005 10:04 am
As someone who lives on the eastern edge of our time zone, I would be less disadvantaged than someone living on the western edge of their zone. I don't like the dark early risings of mid-winter. Our latest sunrise occurs in early January at 7:20 am. The earliest date the second Sunday of March could be is March 8th when our sunrise is at 6:15. We would lose all the gain made in sunrise plus and additional 5 minutes. I'm an early riser and it's difficult to get up an out while it's dark. I look forward to the lengthening days of spring, not because of the later sunsets, but because of the earlier sunrises. The idea of making this change so that I can spend more money angers me. I guess I need to write to my Congressmen.

As difficult as it is for me, I can't imagine how difficult it would be if I lived on the western edge of the time zone.
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jul, 2005 10:16 am
J_B wrote:
As someone who lives on the eastern edge of our time zone, I would be less disadvantaged than someone living on the western edge of their zone. I don't like the dark early risings of mid-winter. Our latest sunrise occurs in early January at 7:20 am. The earliest date the second Sunday of March could be is March 8th when our sunrise is at 6:15. We would lose all the gain made in sunrise plus and additional 5 minutes. I'm an early riser and it's difficult to get up an out while it's dark. I look forward to the lengthening days of spring, not because of the later sunsets, but because of the earlier sunrises. The idea of making this change so that I can spend more money angers me. I guess I need to write to my Congressmen.

As difficult as it is for me, I can't imagine how difficult it would be if I lived on the western edge of the time zone.
I was reading about this the other day when they were thinking of making it a 2 month change rather than 1. It said that cattle farmers were not in agreement because too much daylight interferred with the breeding process of the cattle. Shocked This was the first that I became aware of cattle conforming to time zones. I can't believe that they would write this kind of thing. I guess they do not realize that the number of hours of daylight remains the same....only our clocks are different.
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jul, 2005 10:27 am
Intrepid
Intrepid wrote: "I guess they do not realize that the number of hours of daylight remains the same....only our clocks are different."

Only the cows are not stupid. Laughing

BBB
0 Replies
 
Reyn
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jul, 2005 10:32 am
There's a debate whether or not Canada will follow the U.S. example. I suspect we will, for various reasons.

Personally, it doesn't bother me the extension. What bugs me is the switching back and forth. Especially, when you "lose" that hour.
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jul, 2005 10:40 am
Reyn
Reyn wrote:
There's a debate whether or not Canada will follow the U.S. example. I suspect we will, for various reasons.

Personally, it doesn't bother me the extension. What bugs me is the switching back and forth. Especially, when you "lose" that hour.


Reyn, would you complain about losing an hour of sleep if that hour was spent partying? At least you wouldn't have a hangover. Laughing

BBB
0 Replies
 
Reyn
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Jul, 2005 06:22 pm
Re: Reyn
BumbleBeeBoogie wrote:
Reyn, would you complain about losing an hour of sleep if that hour was spent partying? At least you wouldn't have a hangover. Laughing

BBB

Reyn doesn't party....period.....and I certainly don't drink.
0 Replies
 
Reyn
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Jul, 2005 06:26 pm
Here are letters posted by Canadians on CBC arguing for and against the 2 extra months of DST. Me, I'm in the camp that hates changing the time back and forth, and would prefer, if we must have DST, to have it all year round.

The concept of Daylight Savings Time is archaic and no longer serves the purpose for which it was intended.

Back at the beginning of the century, it was reasonable to expect that more daylight in the evening would reduce the amount of artificial lighting, and lower power consumption.

In the modern age, however, there are other factors to take into account than artificial lights. Air conditioning, for example, uses far more power than lights; the increase in air conditioning alone will more than offset the savings from reduced lighting.

For people without air conditioning, an extra hour of daylight in the evening means another hour until it has cooled enough outside to be able to open the windows and cool the house.

As we make efforts to reduce energy consumption, Canada should be abolishing DST, and not take the American lead of extending it.

Levi Myers | Saskatoon, SK


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I think extending daylight savings is a fantastic idea. Why would we not follow suit with our closest neigbour and largest trade partner?

Greg Machan


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I would prefer to see DST extended to all twelve months. During December it would hardly matter if the sun rose at 9:30 or 10:30, but the added hour of light at the end of the day would be a great help for clearing snow or other outside chores when one gets home after work.

R. Nelson | Grande Prairie, AB
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What I find disturbing about this is that the knee-jerk reactions of our provincial governments seem to be questioning how quickly we can implement American policy, simply because it exists, as opposed to weighing the pros and cons of such policies in a country with very different climatic and geographic conditions.

Businesses and travellers deal with time zone differences just working between provinces. It doesn't seem to have had catastrophic consequences so far. I am sure we will think of strategies to deal with these new time differences as well.

Are there discussions in Australia, Russia, the EU, and other regions with daylight savings time as to how quickly they can copy America, too?

Is anyone worried about the headache it will cause if we move further out of sync with the rest of the industrialized world just so that we can prove that we really are "that state north of Montana"?

Candce Young | Calgary, AB


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Why can't the business community just change their business hours to accommodate the U.S. time change?

The majority of Canadians are not part of the 'Big Business' world, so why should we all change for the convenience of the wealthy minority: suddenly they're a special interest group.

The majority of Canadians, the average-joes who make up the fabric of society, don't need to accomodate this.

For once in their big business lives, they can experience some hardship for the good of their neighbours; it's their turn.

Andrea Siemens | Vancouver, BC


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I am fine with it. Let's just adopt what the U.S. has done. If it will save energy then why not?

But how much will this change really save? Does anyone have some figures on this?

Miriam Marshall | BC
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I think we should stop messing around with the confusing Daylight Savings Time and just stay on the Daylight Time all the year round.

First dairy cattle and the farmers don't need the time changes and also computers are not set up for the new American changes.

Let's be one step of the Americans and stay on daylight savings 12 months of the year.

Jon Pridie | Calmar, AB


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Time changes are a thing of the past. Let's just end it now and stop the farce. Let's follow Saskatchewan's lead and just say "No".

Most modern office buildings have their lights on during working hours anyway, regardless of whether it is light or dark outside.

Tinkering with "daylight savings" is a useless proposition. Let's have Canada do the smart thing and cancel the whole exercise.

Marc D | Nanaimo, BC


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People who write in saying "we shouldn't change, we are used to dealing with people in different time zones already" simply don't get it.

They don't understand the full implications of not changing the clocks at the same time as the U.S.

If we didn't change, it would mean that we would be in synch most of the year, except in March and November. For two months of the year, we would have to make a mental adjustment, and to make matters worse, the adjustment would be different in March than in November.

Let's save ourselves the hassle and keep it simple: Keep things in synch!

Stephen Cooper | Ottawa, ON


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This is the most stupid idea I have heard in ages. The use of lights that we would be "saving" in the evening, would be used in the morning instead, not to mention the additional heat we would use warming the house up for that hour of getting ready.

And even worse we would be getting up in the dark for an additional two months!

I think that we should look at Saskatchewan as an example and just leave the clocks on Standard time all year.

We could probably save more energy that way as we wouldn't use too much AC on a summer evening, because the sun would go down sooner and it would cool off earlier.

It is so frustrating how Canada is always at the mercy of American ideas. Can't we have our own ideas?

Tara | Guelph, ON


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I seriously doubt it will make ANY significant impact on energy savings. The effect will be massive in many other ways though.

Consider for example, the number of computer programs that would now have to be changed (or disabled if not editable) to account for the different date of the clocks being changed.

I find it repulsive that the Americans can walk all over this planet casting rules and changes whenever they feel like it regardless of international effects and opinions.

Last week it was the control of the planet's Internet root servers, now it's the very aspect of time itself! Where does it end with them? When do they have a limit?

I say we keep our clocks as is.

Paul Dobbs | Oshawa, ON


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Energy consumption and a two month period of being "out of sync" with the States is the least of our worries in our country.

Our children need the mornings to be light to ensure their safety going to school. The black ice is yet another factor to consider for drivers as well, which could very well risk children's safety on their way to school.

Let the States be out of sync with everyone else. They will soon realize what a ridiculous idea they had.

Theresa | Ontario


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I agree with the comments that we should extend our DST to all year. What is the purpose of having only three months of non-DST time. The American "energy plan" is so stupid. It doesn't deal with the true problems of the environment.

U.S. policies toward the environment and energy make no sense.

Walid Sharif | Toronto, ON


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What about VCRs, computers, PDAs, and other gadgets that set themselves automatically to daylight savings time and back again?

The VCRs especially will be useless as this feature is hardwired in the circuitry, and the time of year that daylight savings occurs can't be reprogrammed.

Mike Fellhauer | Toronto, ON

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If the issue is to save money, there are other factors to consider.

I come from a place where the snow doesn't usually melt until late April/early May, if we're lucky, and where overnight temperatures don't usually rise above freezing until after that.

The issue of early morning ice and frost on the roads is an important one, as the extra hour of darkness in the mornings, when people are travelling to work and school, could bring about other financial costs in the form of increased accidents.

Car insurance is a government-run affair here, and that extra hour of darkness could end up costing both the government and car-owners far more than the energy saved by extending daylight savings time (DST).

Plus, like someone else said, I turn the lights on when it gets dark. That won't change, even if DST does.

Nicole La Rue | Winnipeg, MB


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Whether the U.S. is right or wrong in this change, let's not make things any more complicated.

Let's not look at it as blindly following the Americans but as being able to come home from work during the winter and being able to enjoy the outdoors with families with daylight, rather than darkness. Joe Croteau | Edmonton, AB


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When are we going to stop following what the U.S. does? We have been making business for years with provinces and states that are on a different time zone!

I don't like the winter/summer time adjustment. It's against nature and we should stick to the natural sun time.

Philippe Nicolitch | Montreal, PQ


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My husband and I would love to see the DST all year long, but if extending it from March 1 to Nov. 30 is the best they can do for us, then we would be happy to see it.

When the time changes at the end of October our energy levels drop right along with it. Once it changes again at the beginning of April, we notice a change again, only this time for the better.

Not only does the time change affect our energy levels and moods, it is very difficult to get back on track for a good night's sleep.

Let's go with the change - and now!

J. McLeod | Sackville, NB


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I'm an amateur astronomer, and like the earlier darkening of the winter months. But I could adapt.

More energy savings would be possible without tinkering with DST, by instituting some common-sense light pollution reduction steps (more efficient lighting, downward-directed lighting, lights turned off when notneeded, etc).

That would help reduce energy consumption AND benefit anyone trying to look at the night sky.

Tony Miller | Columbus, OH


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I would like to have DST all year.

In Canada winter days are short enough without wasting an hour in the morning. I would like to have that hour in the evening.

Can you imagine the confusion in March and November if we do not follow suit. It surprises me there is even a discussion about it.

D. French | Halifax, NS


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Business should not supercede the responsibility we have to our citizens. Let the U.S. do their thing, we will do ours.

If they really want to "save on energy consumption" then the Kyoto accord would help them.

Adjusting the sun is a stupid short term solution to a growing environmental catastrophe.

Neil Thompson | Moncton, NB


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What I have always failed to understand about daylight savings time is why we don't change back and forth at the same time relative to the equinox.

The Spring equinox is around March 21, and we change in April. The fall equinox is in September but we switch back in October.

If we were to go ahead in mid-February we would experience the same daylight conditions we now see in October, or if we went backwards in August.

Neil Graham | NB
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Could one of the "benefits" be a psychological effort to extend the workday? Most of us are required to be at work for a particular time in the morning so the start of the workday is set.

Under this plan, for a few months, darkness would come an hour later and thus, people would unconsciously extend their working hours.

Greg Hayhurst | Paris, ON


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I turn on the lights when it gets dark, not because the clock says I should.

Does Bush think he can change the movement of the heavens and stars?

BR | London, ON


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Who thought of this dumb idea. I agree with BR of London, Ontario.

The use of artificial light is not dictated by the clock, but the human eye.

Let's say that this does happen, the work day would start earlier in those two months. People would start their day earlier, hence start consuming energy earlier.

Ed | Vancouver, BC


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I am frankly quite sick about all the fuss over changing the clocks. The need for daylight savings itself is very archaic and outdated.

We as Canadians should not allow ourselves to be pushed around by our southern neighbour simply to alleviate some confusion over when the next episode of the OC will be on.

I think I'll start making plans to move to Saskatchewan.

Dave Heppenstall | Guelph, ON
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It is so refreshing to know there is a possibility DST may be extended in the U.S., albeit even for only two additional months.

I have always felt the current period has been much too short in Canada. Here in Victoria, Spring is in bloom in March and our beautiful Autumns extend well beyond October.

A two-month extension would be just fine.

Should the change occur in the U.S., Canada should by all means follow suit.

Our two countries need to maintain their current time patterns for many reasons including economics, travel, continental time uniformity, our innumerable similarities and progressive thinking.

In fact I wish we were on DST all year round.

Gerry Bromley | Victoria, B.C.


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This change would mean that the U.S. would be on so-called "standard" time for only three months of the year.

Well what's the point? Just leave clocks where they are for those three months, and stay on "daylight savings" time for the full year.

People in large northern cities such as Edmonton have no problem waking up in the dark and getting to work and school before the sun comes up, so why should the rest of the country have any problem?

Colin Szasz | Calgary, AB

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0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Jul, 2005 07:10 pm
Start school later.

There are all kinds of studies about how it's too early already. Especially for teenagers, but I think all kids.

The extra daylight savings time would mean the actual daylight hours out of school would be the same, if school started an hour later for example.
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Jul, 2005 04:02 am
The funny thing is, if they did change it to March through November we would only have 3 months on standard time. ???? Where is the rationality?
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Aug, 2005 10:57 am
It looks like it's about to be signed into law.

I hereby vow not to spend any money during the month of March or first week of November after 5:00 pm.

Kids will be standing at the busstops in the dark for an extra month so that we will shop more after work, ugh. Count me out.
0 Replies
 
Reyn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Aug, 2005 08:27 pm
Intrepid wrote:
The funny thing is, if they did change it to March through November we would only have 3 months on standard time. ???? Where is the rationality?

Agreed! I would be very much in favor of keping in one time or the other all year around.

Has there been any news if we will follow suit here in Canada?
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Feb, 2007 09:17 am
bumping this up because I'm renewing my vow not to spend money between the hours of 4:00pm and 6:00 pm from March 11 through April 5th.
0 Replies
 
Noddy24
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Feb, 2007 09:30 am
Quote:
It said that cattle farmers were not in agreement because too much daylight interferred with the breeding process of the cattle. This was the first that I became aware of cattle conforming to time zones.


Intrepid--

You've never been a nursing mother. Shifting milking times for dairy cows by one hour requires at least two weeks for the cows to adjust to the new schedule.

Cattle breeding these days is scientific and mostly accomplished through artificial insemination. Calves and their mamas are not necessarily confined in the same pen. Why would ranchers complain unless they had a reason to complain?
0 Replies
 
squinney
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Feb, 2007 09:56 am
Since it is mostly "artificial" now days... The ranchers preferred the cover of dark for this?

So, when do we Spring forward?
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Feb, 2007 10:11 am
March 11
0 Replies
 
squinney
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Feb, 2007 10:15 am
Cripes.

(That actually is pretty funny that people would think they actually get more daylight. I, for one, if in need of more daylight in order to function or get a job done, would simply set my alarm accordingly.)
0 Replies
 
littlek
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Feb, 2007 10:20 am
What reason is there NOT to shift into DLS time all year around. I could use the extra time at sunset in mid december.
0 Replies
 
Piffka
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Feb, 2007 10:21 am
I like the idea of having Daylight Savings Time all year and CALLING it Standard time.
0 Replies
 
Reyn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Feb, 2007 10:21 am
I've not heard anything if the extended daylight savings time hours will be extended to Canada yet.
0 Replies
 
 

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