2
   

Denver Bans Pit Bulls

 
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Sep, 2005 09:52 pm
Setanta wrote:
Tico wrote:
You might have anecdotal evidence of a gentle pit, but I have tons of anecdotal evidence of dangerous and violent pits.


Just as you assume in the first quote that i've not read the thread, ...


Wrong again. You should stop making assumptions regarding what you think are my assumptions, because you suck at it. Whether you had previously looked through all my posts in this thread, or not, you failed to notice that I've made it clear that my opinion is based primarily on anecdotal evidence. I relayed several personal experiences of mine, involving pit bulls that have attacked human beings. I certainly did not make the assumption you hadn't read every post, but was telling you that if you had, you ought to read back to see where I was coming from, because you'd obviously fogotten. Why would I be critical of anecdotal evidence when that's what I announced I had? Your thought process in this thread is about as clear as in the thread where you accused me of lying -- although you later admitted you knew I wasn't lying -- cloudy.

Quote:
... although you have no certain knowledge of the matter, in this second quote you assume that you have more anecdotal evidence of your point of view. As if that validates anecdotal evidence--god, you crack me up.


Within the last several years I have personally prosecuted 3 dog bite cases involving pit bulls savagely attacking and injuring young children ... 2 of them involved serious injuries. You?

I'm not suggesting that my anecdotal evidence trumps yours, but I'm telling you that I have a tremendous amount that has formed my opinion. You go ahead and live in your fantasy world where you think pit bulls are cute, gentle creatures. In the meantime, back here in the real world, most people are aware that pit bulls are dangerous, and many municipalities are taking step to protect their citizens from these menaces. As they should.
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Sep, 2005 09:52 pm
I just realized. Those muzzles are really gonna piss those boy pits off .....
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Sep, 2005 09:54 pm
http://www.domesticsale.com/mainclass/photos/iiboxhxnii.jpg
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Sep, 2005 10:01 pm
http://www.cityofboston.gov/animalcontrol/images/Pit---bloody-face-2.jpg
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Sep, 2005 10:03 pm
Tico,
It appears that a poodle kicked the poop out of your pit.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Sep, 2005 10:03 pm
Ticomaya wrote:
Wrong again. You should stop making assumptions regarding what you think are my assumptions, because you suck at it.


Pot, meet kettle.

Quote:
Your thought process in this thread is about as clear as in the thread where you accused me of lying -- although you later admitted you knew I wasn't lying -- cloudy.


That's a nice little example of characterization to fit your bias. I wrote that i suspected you weren't lying, but had accused you of it to judge from your reaction. I also did not actually accuse you of lying, what i wrote was: "This is patently a lie." Which particular wording left it open to you to deny it and admit you'd been mistaken, something, however, of which you apparently are incapable. I futher wrote that thereafter you willfully lied to cover the gross error you had made in your characterization of what i'd written, an assement i stand by. Your stupid pride will never allow you to admit that you are, or even might be, wrong. You are obsessed with "winning."

Quote:
Within the last several years I have personally prosecuted 3 dog bite cases involving pit bulls savagely attacking and injuring young children ... 2 of them involved serious injuries. You?


I'm so proud of you . . . i just glow with excitement. Were size of ego to be equated with intellectual attainment, you'd dwarf Stephen Hawking.

Quote:
I'm not suggesting that my anecdotal evidence trumps yours, but I'm telling you that I have a tremendous amount that has formed my opinion.


And of course, that leads you to assume that no one else has any evidence, anecdotal or statistical, which could prove you wrong.

Quote:
You go ahead and live in your fantasy world where you think pit bulls are cute, gentle creatures.


Another idiotic assumption, the point of which is to be snide and belittling. I expect nothing less of you.

Quote:
In the meantime, back here in the real world, most people are aware that pit bulls are dangerous, and many municipalities are taking step to protect their citizens from these menaces. As they should.


I see that you reject the assessment of Dog Bite Law dot com, which i posted and linked, and which, ironically is maintained by an attorney in Los Angeles. Any dog not properly cared for, and not properly contained if there is a danger of attack is a menace because of the owner, and not the inherent characteristics of the dog. This was something we recognized and dealt with on a daily basis when i routinely volunteered at an animal shelter. I finally left there because i could no longer stand the heartbreak of seeing dogs murdered every day because of negligent and stupid owners.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Sep, 2005 10:14 pm
Setanta wrote:
That's a nice little example of characterization to fit your bias. I wrote that i suspected you weren't lying, but had accused you of it to judge from your reaction. I futher wrote that thereafter you willfully lied to cover the gross error you had made in your characterization of what i'd written, and assement i stand by. Your stupid pride will never allow you to admit that you are, or even might be wrong. You are obsessed with "winning."


You accused me of lying, knowing full-well that I hadn't. Then after I explained to you why I hadn't lied, you came back and said I lied in my explanation. You never did explain that one ... just accused me of lying a second time. Bizarre.

Set wrote:
Quote:
I'm not suggesting that my anecdotal evidence trumps yours, but I'm telling you that I have a tremendous amount that has formed my opinion.


And of course, that leads you to assume that no one else has any evidence, anecdotal or statistical, which could prove you wrong.


I'm not saying that, but I am saying that your anecdote of the two non-aggressive pits didn't do the trick.

Set wrote:
Tico wrote:
You go ahead and live in your fantasy world where you think pit bulls are cute, gentle creatures.


Another idiotic assumption, the point of which is to be snide and belittling. I expect nothing less of you.


It might be snide and belittling -- and you deserve every bit that is -- but it's not inaccurate.

Set wrote:
Tico wrote:
In the meantime, back here in the real world, most people are aware that pit bulls are dangerous, and many municipalities are taking step to protect their citizens from these menaces. As they should.


I see that you reject the assessment of Dog Bite Law dot com, which i posted and linked, and which, ironically is maintained by an attorney in Los Angeles. Any dog not properly cared for, and not properly contained if there is a danger of attack is a menace because of the owner, and not the inherent characteristics of the dog. This was something we recognized and dealt with on a daily basis when i routinely volunteered at an animal shelter. I finally left there because i could no longer stand the heartbreak of seeing dogs murdered every day because of negligent and stupid owners.


No, I don't reject that assessment. I also think pit bulls are inherently dangerous dogs. Feel free to disagree.
0 Replies
 
Montana
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Sep, 2005 10:23 pm
Ticomaya wrote:
Most bite reports I've read overwhelmingly involve Pits, and secondarily involve Rottweilers. Pit Bulls are a very dangerous breed, regardless of the training.

I'll give you a case in point: An acquaintence of mine had the tip of his nose bitten off by his brother's Pit Bull. The dog was his brother's pet, and he'd known it it's entire life. They did not train the dog to be aggressive. One day he was playing around with the dog, when it lunged at him and took off his nose.


Pit Bulls might have the capacity to be lovely, but I'm convinced they have an inherent nature to attack, and when they bite they clamp down and don't let go. I've read too many bite reports, and seen too many pictures of maulings involving Pits to think otherwise.



This is my take on it as well. Last year not far from from where I live a little boy was killed by 2 pit bulls in his own yard by his fathers dogs.
I hear too many horrifying stories about this breed of dog.
A friend of mine had a pit bull mix she had to have put down after it attacked a neighbors child and a small dog.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Sep, 2005 10:24 pm
Ticomaya wrote:
You accused me of lying, knowing full-well that I hadn't. Then after I explained to you why I hadn't lied, you came back and said I lied in my explanation. You never did explain that one ... just accused me of lying a second time. Bizarre.


This is patently a lie. I did not know whether you had lied, or were simply experiencing a brain fart, so i set out to see if i could determine that. Your explanations were bootless, and did not cover the quoted material, which is why i accused you of further lies. Again, i stand by that assessment.

Quote:
I'm not saying that, but I am saying that your anecdote of the two non-aggressive pits didn't do the trick.


Which is why i went looking for the data which i knew was there to back up my position. I long voluteered in the Bondville Animal Shelter, which serves Champaign County, Illinois, home to the University of Illinois. University towns are notorious for abandoned animals, and untrained dangerous animals--many college students love to have a "cool" dog or cat, but find them a burden upon graduation, and dump them--sometimes in the country, but often just in an alley on the other side of town. We dealt with those animals on a regular basis, and put down about five or six adult dogs a day--we had no choice, as we couldn't house or feed them, and the state required us to destroy any animals for whom we could not provide minimum standards of shelter and feeding. When i worked at Southern Illinois University, i lived in the country outside of town. A friend i made there used to go out along the roads with a rifle, and shoot the feral cats and dogs which abounded there, having been abandoned by the college students. It was an act of pure mercy on his part--when brought to shelters, they are typically malnourished, often starving, and almost invariably disease- and parasite-ridden.

Quote:
It might be snide and belittling -- and you deserve every bit that is -- but it's not inaccurate.


It was completely inaccurate--it was patently a lie.

Quote:
No, I don't reject that assessment. I also think pit bulls are inherently dangerous dogs. Feel free to disagree.


I do, with or without your permission.
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Sep, 2005 10:49 pm
Plato extolled a basic understanding of canine behavior when he wrote "the disposition of noble dogs is to be gentle with people they know and the opposite with those they don't know...."
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Sep, 2005 11:15 pm
I personally think Plato was an ass, but taking his remark at face value, it is obvious that owners have to be responsible for controlling their dogs.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Sep, 2005 06:23 am
Setanta wrote:
Ticomaya wrote:
You accused me of lying, knowing full-well that I hadn't. Then after I explained to you why I hadn't lied, you came back and said I lied in my explanation. You never did explain that one ... just accused me of lying a second time. Bizarre.


This is patently a lie. I did not know whether you had lied, or were simply experiencing a brain fart, so i set out to see if i could determine that. Your explanations were bootless, and did not cover the quoted material, which is why i accused you of further lies. Again, i stand by that assessment.


Another accusation of lying from Setanta. Boy this comes easy for you, doesn't it? But upon review, it is evident that it is you who is lying.

After accusing me of lying, you came back later and admitted, "I did not in fact consider that a lie." Now you say you "didn't know" whether I had lied?

Let's take a look:

[quote="On Page 30 of the "A new low...even for liberal anti-war protesters" thread, Setanta"]It's not about winning. Tico made a stupid mistake in his initial characterization of my remark. He's been backpedaling furiously since then. Unable to support the substance of his stupid error, but also unable for his pride's sake to acknowlege any error, he's simply piled on more feeble justification.

On page 24, I wrote:
Ah, the conservatives do love diversion and false analogies. Miss Healy's son died in a worthy cause in what has properly been seen since the outset as the war on terrorism--in Afghanistan. That is not the case with the son of Miss Sheehan.


This apparently rankled, because . . .

On page 28, Tico wrote:
Because we're talking about Ms. Sheehan, not Bush. But I see your point. Why, then, did you accuse me of diversion when I posted the view of a mother who lost her son in the military who did not think Sheehan spoke for her. That's precisely on point. A different grieving mother with the same "moral authority" as Sheehan telling her to put a sock in it. If you felt so inclined, you might have pointed out a distinction to be made in that the son of the mother who is the subject of the article I posted did not die in Iraq, but you instead chose to accuse me of diversion and false analogy.


I did not in fact consider that a lie, just a sloppy, gross error on his part, because he was so eager to smear me for an hypocricy which was not in fact supported by the text.[/color]

Now, embarrassed, but too proud, and too motivated by partisan contempt to admit he's made an error, he abandons his normal terse style to marshall entire regiments of words, in a failed attempt to justify his error. In the first instance, i don't in fact consider that he lied--he just stumbled badly. Since then however, all his unsuccessful attempts to change the meaning of what he wrote with long-winded justification constitutes an extended lie.

I'll not clutter the thread with this any longer, and i have lost what little respect i previously had for Tico's contribution.

This entire discussion from the time Miss Sheehan was introduced has been a typical diversion--the topic of the thread is a handful of pathetic protesters at a hospital. No one seems to remember that in their passion to attack one another. Y'all have nice lives . . .[/quote]

LINK

I've highlighted the important part for emphasis. So you accused me of lying, came back and said you never did think I was lying, and now claim you didn't know whether I was lying ... and can accuse ME of lying yet again? LOL.

Which is it, Setanta? Were you lying then, or are you lying now?

Set wrote:
Quote:
I'm not saying that, but I am saying that your anecdote of the two non-aggressive pits didn't do the trick.


Which is why i went looking for the data which i knew was there to back up my position. I long voluteered in the Bondville Animal Shelter, which serves Champaign County, Illinois, home to the University of Illinois. University towns are notorious for abandoned animals, and untrained dangerous animals--many college students love to have a "cool" dog or cat, but find them a burden upon graduation, and dump them--sometimes in the country, but often just in an alley on the other side of town. We dealt with those animals on a regular basis, and put down about five or six adult dogs a day--we had no choice, as we couldn't house or feed them, and the state required us to destroy any animals for whom we could not provide minimum standards of shelter and feeding. When i worked at Southern Illinois University, i lived in the country outside of town. A friend i made there used to go out along the roads with a rifle, and shoot the feral cats and dogs which abounded there, having been abandoned by the college students. It was an act of pure mercy on his part--when brought to shelters, they are typically malnourished, often starving, and almost invariably disease- and parasite-ridden.


What the hell does your volunteering at an animal shelter have to do with the issue of whether pit bulls are dangerous dogs?

Set wrote:
Quote:
It might be snide and belittling -- and you deserve every bit that is -- but it's not inaccurate.


It was completely inaccurate--it was patently a lie.


Another accusation of lying from Set the liar, to be given the consideration it deserves. Your credibility is in the toilet at this stage.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Sep, 2005 10:55 am
Thanks for the bylaw info, Intrepid. It's helpful. The vet who is treating Buddy has informed Bylaw Enforcement of the incident. Another neighbour and I are writing down the info on the incidents involving our dogs - to go with that notification.


<why does it feel like Set and tico have dragged an old fight over here? I'm not liking either of them much right now. Not that it matters.>


Thanks again, Intrepid.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Sep, 2005 10:57 am
As my credibility is allegedly now in the toilet, one can only wonder at the energy expended by Tico to rant and shout his allegations.

Miss Girl, i am happy to desist.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Sep, 2005 10:57 am
ehBeth wrote:
<why does it feel like Set and tico have dragged an old fight over here? I'm not liking either of them much right now. Not that it matters.>


The fight was drug over to me, Beth. Sorry it derailed the thread.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Sep, 2005 11:00 am
Another patent lie . . . refer to your post 1547003. I intend to desist, but not to countance being unjustly slurred. You imported your petty resentments from the other thread.
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Sep, 2005 11:30 am
ehBeth wrote:
Thanks for the bylaw info, Intrepid. It's helpful. The vet who is treating Buddy has informed Bylaw Enforcement of the incident. Another neighbour and I are writing down the info on the incidents involving our dogs - to go with that notification.


<why does it feel like Set and tico have dragged an old fight over here? I'm not liking either of them much right now. Not that it matters.>


Thanks again, Intrepid.


You are welcome, ehbeth. Good luck with your "fight"

As for Tico and Set..... I guess they are in the right arena. Pit Bulls..both of 'em Laughing

I have had run ins with both, but like them both nonetheless.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Sep, 2005 11:45 am
Setanta wrote:
Another patent lie . . . refer to your post 1547003. I intend to desist, but not to countance being unjustly slurred. You imported your petty resentments from the other thread.


Another accusation .... with your credibility already suffering?

You showed up in this thread, and promptly disagreed with me. No problem there. I told you I disagreed with your opinion, and I told you why. You then expressed your low opinion of my opinion, and I reciprocated. It is at that point that you elevated your rhetoric, and I responded.

I refer to your posts 1546871, 1546914, and 1546972. It appears to me you were spoiling for a fight. It is obvious that your petty resentment was heldover when you entered this thread. You brought the fight to me.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Sep, 2005 02:32 pm
Intrepid has offered excellent animal control information for Ontario, and i strongly urge those with an interest in this subject who reside in the United States to checkout Dog Bite Law dot com, which has excellent information and advice.
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Sep, 2005 11:58 am
Ah, the thread is now unlocked with missing posts. Maybe the pitbull issue can resume. The doggy kind. :-)
0 Replies
 
 

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