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Denver Bans Pit Bulls

 
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Aug, 2005 08:06 pm
I'd been wondering about that, and that's a good link, Tico.

Still, I think some present breeders breed for fighting. Others may not, but I am not familiar with the different breeders. Still, given the ancestors were fighting dogs, the inclination can still show up in any given apparent sweetheart. Even if they are not primarily fighters, the attack of a pit bull simply guarding its territory is more apt to be fatal, because of the jaw power.

I personally don't know much about the american 'pit bulls'.
I do know a little about dobermans. My business partner's sister raises dobermans, and the original sire was a highly regarded best in show winner at Westminister (or some such claim). And the sister's dogs have done well in shows. However, their fault apparently is that they are too sweet, the line having a bit of a scaredy cat temperament. Business partner's dog, which she got for free from the sister since he failed at even trying to show because of an undecended testicle, is a total sweetheart... much much more so than my beloved corgi.

So I can begin to imagine how I'd feel if dobermans were outlawed in my city, and thus I have mixed feelings.

The death by dog mauling that happened in San Francisco a couple of years ago, thus precipitating strong controversy about their being allowed... was by a dog raised by a prison fellow as a vicious fighter (I think, if I have the story right. I think he denied it, so I'll just say allegedly.) I can't type the
exact breed name this minute because I have to look it up and I can't google while I fill in the quick reply box or I'll lose the post. So, temporarily, I'll say what my mind has memorized it as, Primo canarsi. Which sounds like a town in New Jersey - I'm sure I spelled that wrong...
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ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Aug, 2005 08:19 pm
Presa Canario, that's the breed, and I see Farmerman posted on it while I was wandering around google..

here's a link on a bill re regulating breeding - http://www.sfexaminer.com/articles/2005/06/22/news/20050622_ne04_breed.txt
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husker
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Aug, 2005 08:28 pm
We used to have some neighbors that lived down the street that used to have me come play with the Rottweiler and Doberman about once a week because they wanted to have them get that type of social play on me( a little controled rough play, they were afraid. I was never bitten over the course of about 18 months and of course they knew who was boss. The Rottweiler was a cupcake of about 120lbs and the Doberman I never trusted 1oz.

A couple years later some new neighbors moved in across the street with a Pitbull - only problem with that dog was the locking jaw and I never wanted to really hurt the the dog in a mis-understanding while playing so I was always very very careful. She seemed pretty kind considering she was raised aa a part of the family, but the instinct part was pretty sucky in my opinion - I'd never own one or want my family to be around one if possible.
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husker
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Aug, 2005 08:31 pm
Next weekend I'll assist my son in caring for a Great Dane, BloodHound, and Chow, it should be a lot of fun.
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Reyn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Aug, 2005 08:43 pm
Ticomaya wrote:
Most bite reports I've read overwhelmingly involve Pits, and secondarily involve Rottweilers. Pit Bulls are a very dangerous breed, regardless of the training.

I can personally attest to this. My job as a meter reader takes my into daily contact with dogs, with this time of the year being the most dangerous. Families are home. Front doors and gates are open, etc.

In my area, the dog of choice is still the Rottweiller, although PitBulls are making a comeback. My last dog bite was last February. It was a Rottweiller, with a Pitbull following closely behind. Fortunately, the Pitbull broke off and never bite me, but the Rottweiller got me on the right arm. The location was a suspected 'pot grow'. Never had seen the dogs before. I suspect, again, that someone was at the "residence" to tend the crop.

When I see a Pitbull, no attempt is even made to enter someone's yard. With Rottweillers, it depends on their disposition, and I can clearly read them.
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Reyn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Aug, 2005 08:54 pm
Intrepid wrote:
Eye contact is a threatening gesture to a dog. ANY dog, not just pitbulls.

It may be threatening, but highly successful. It depends on the individual dog.

Some dogs will not challenge someone who appears more aggressive then they are. What is absolutely key, is that you do not turn your back and try to run away. Always face the dog, whether you have eye contact or not.

In my vast experience, most dogs are cowards. Turn your back and give them a chance to bite you, they will. What will happen, is that they will sneak up and bite once (in most cases) and run away. I'm talking about your average "mutt" here.

There have been times where I've been stuck in someone's yard and I've under-estimated the dog. Sometimes in order to show dominance (and give me a safe exit out of the yard), I have had to rush towards the dog giving chase. I've never had a situation where I've done this where it has not worked successfully, but, of course, I do this rarely and only when the situation warrants it.
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ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Aug, 2005 08:57 pm
Well, you are really on the dog frontline, Reyn, in your job, meeting them in their territorial state..
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Reyn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Aug, 2005 08:59 pm
Bella Dea wrote:
Pit bulls need to be taught who is boss or they take over the roll.

And dog owners need to taught how to be responsible for their dog, no matter what breed or kind of dog it is.

An untrained dog, is a nuisance dog. A dog owner who doesn't know, or care to know, how to train a dog is worse than useless. Mad
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Reyn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Aug, 2005 09:02 pm
ossobuco wrote:
Well, you are really on the dog frontline, Reyn, in your job, meeting them in their territorial state..

Much more so than than mail carriers. Our job frequently takes us into the fenced part of the yard.

Rural is worse than urban. Trust me on this. 68% of my routes are rural, but at least I have the protection of my company vehicle.
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Reyn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Aug, 2005 09:07 pm
Ticomaya wrote:
That's what you are likely to get if a pit bull attacks ... not a warning nip or bite, but a full-scale, potentially lethal assault.

Agreed! They scare the hell out of me. The things I've seen.

One of my fellow meter readers was bit in the stomach by a Pitbull that came out of someone's open front door (Duh!). He had had no previous contact with this animal.

What saved him from exteme injury was the fact that he backed up to a fence, it collasped, surprising the dog. In the meantime, the thick owner had come out of the house and retrieved his "pet".
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Reyn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Aug, 2005 09:13 pm
Bella Dea wrote:
I just know that poodles have been known to attack. As well as Great Danes. In fact, I've heard more stories of Great Danes attacking and killing or injuring other dogs and humans around here than I have Pit bulls. So what does that say about Great Danes?

Yes, some Poodles can be "fear biters". Usually you're fine, so long you are facing them. When they circle around, you turn with them.

My experience with Great Danes has for the most part been very positive. I've only had one in my 18 year career doing this job that has given me pause. I do find their size intimidating, and wonder to myself that if this dog wanted to be nasty, I would be toast. Shocked
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Reyn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Aug, 2005 09:15 pm
boomerang wrote:
I have Dalmations. They have a reputation for being sweet and goofy but they are fiercly protective and quite suspicious and can be very agressive to anyone outside their immediate pack.

I remember reading once that the post office ranked them as the "most likely to bite" breed and I believe it. Our dogs require a very firm hand.

EVERYBODY wants to pet them. Kids especially. (Thanks Walt Disney.) Now that my dogs are getting old and very cranky I warn people off.

Yes, very true! I'm quite wary of them, as some can be very tempermental, much like Chows.
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Reyn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Aug, 2005 09:16 pm
ossobuco wrote:
And I keep an eagle eye on Pacco the corgi..

I love Corgis. Never met a nasty one yet! Very Happy
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Reyn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Aug, 2005 09:18 pm
Bella Dea wrote:
I want an English Mastiff and will get one someday.

Oooh, Bullmastiffs, now there's another breed of dog I'm very careful with..... Shocked
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Reyn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Aug, 2005 09:23 pm
Bella Dea wrote:
You can make a German Shepard just as mean as a pit bull. They are just as dominant and strong willed as a pit bull.

Oh yeah! Just put them on a nice short chain out in the open and totally ignore the animal, except for mealtimes! Mad Evil or Very Mad I've seen dogs go berserk like that.

Some people should just not be allowed to have animals, never mind dogs. The things you see on rural properties.
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ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Aug, 2005 09:27 pm
Reyn wrote:
ossobuco wrote:
And I keep an eagle eye on Pacco the corgi..

I love Corgis. Never met a nasty one yet! Very Happy



Did you hear that, Pacco?

He growled at a child in a stroller once. That's enough for me to be wary.
Chances are it was the stroller that bothered him. Still - I am very careful.

He is actually good with kids and dogs he knows. I just worry about the toddler wandering in from down the street.*

I don't really mean that, precisely - that comment is a reference to some of the thinking behind pool safe fencing, which has been subject to regulation more for the baby on the road than for the kids in the house, from my longtime observation re regulations in cities where I've designed pools.

I think corgis are lightweights for aggression compared to pit bulls, and various websites corroborate that, but I don't discount them. And neither does Princess Anne, I bet.
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Reyn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Aug, 2005 09:28 pm
Bella Dea wrote:
I think he was looking specifically for a Corgi. I just did a quick look at they are aroun $700 from a good breeder.

If you don't mind, I would like to warn all who are thinking of buying from breeders.

Always, and I mean always, see the conditions that the dogs are raised in. Any reputable breeder won't mind at all, as they have nothing to hide. I have seen some kennels on some properties that make you sick to your stomach. The conditions that the poor animals are kept in. Absolutely disgusting.

I've made a few calls in my time....
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Reyn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Aug, 2005 09:34 pm
dragon49 wrote:
now i am not some hard core peta person (i wouldn't throw paint on someone with a fur coat), but i do believe that it is inhumane what some people do to their animals and they get a slap on the wrist with a $200 fine. i mean last night on tv they had someone who just left their puppy in their car (in summertime with no food or water) for over 48 hours until humane society showed up and removed it and they cant even prosecute because they cant prove the person knew the puppy was in the car...wtf? yet it had tags on with the puppy's owners info-and it was a puppy so it wasn't like it go out of the house and into the car on its own without the owner noticing...

The sad part about it is that these horrible things are not just happening to dogs, but other animals like horses, etc. The conditions some are kept in are just ridiculous! I could list offences, but I want you to keep your suppers down....
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ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Aug, 2005 09:34 pm
I have a friend in Texas who bought a corgi in Montana, but flew up there and checked out the kennel first..
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CowDoc
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Aug, 2005 11:23 pm
The problem here is simple - any breed of dog is capable of biting. While "pit bulls" are considerably less likely to bite than several other breeds (including Chows, Poodle, and Cocker Spaniels), they are much more likely to cause serious injury when they do. The single meanest dog I ever saw was a Rat Terrier that lived to be nearly sixteen years old, and was still damned dangerous, at least in my eyes, when she was deaf, blind, and toothless. Her owner had almost solid scar tissue from the wrist to the elbow on both arms, and still adored that hellion! I had to go to her house to put the dog down about twenty years ago, and had to sneak up behind it and throw a blanket over it to subdue it enough to eventually euthanize it, and even that came after a none-too-short wrestling match on the floor.
The moral of the story is that bad-ass dogs come in all shapes and sizes, and some acquire their attitudes through training, or lack thereof, but I will always contend that the "Father Flanagan syndrome", as I used to call it, is a crock. There are such things as bad boys, and there are such things as bad dogs. In my humble opinion, the biggest problem that the pet population of this country faces is that people are bound and determined to own a particular breed of dog, rather than simply seeking out a well-tempered individual. Because of this desire, breeders are encouraged to breed anything and everything for which there is a demand, because they know damned well some idiot will buy it, regardless of how big a jerk it happens to be. Meanwhile, mutts in animal shelters across the country are put down because nobody wants them.
In central Idaho, we have very few dog breeders, and the great majority of our shelter dogs are adopted. I put down those that aren't, and I can tell you with absolute confidence that at least seventy-five percent of those really shouldn't be adopted due to their age, attitude, or lack of intelligence. My own dog came from there, and we refer to her as a Saveway Box Terrier, because she came from a box of puppies that some kids had in front of the local grocery store until the local Humane Society paid the kids five bucks apiece for them and took them to the shelter, where the entire litter was adopted. Since we had no particular genetic guidance for her actions, she plays ball, brings in the newspaper every morning (after standing up to take it out of the mailbox), guards the house, and works cattle with me. Essentially, she will do anything she thinks pleases the wife and me. Y'all can debate the merits of differing breeds all you want, but give me a smart, kind, caring mutt any day of the week!
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