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Denver Bans Pit Bulls

 
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Sep, 2005 08:31 pm
Reyn wrote:
Also, didn't Ontario just pass that new law to ban Pitbulls? Has it gone into effect?


Dogs are not banned per se. Owners of pitbulls must have their dog leashed, fixed and muzzled if out in public.

The new law took effect August 25th. Some cities had their own bans much earlier than this. My city was one of them.

A law suit is being mounted as, apparently, the wording and the dog breeds included are being deemed against the human rights of the owners.
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Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Sep, 2005 08:32 pm
Oh, and I wouldn't want to be the by-law enforcement officer that had to check to see if doggy was fixed. Laughing
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Sep, 2005 08:36 pm
Ticomaya wrote:
These dogs will be put down. Dangerous breed, I tell you.


No, Intrepid is right about dangerous owner. Any owner who does not train and socialize their dogs is the danger. A friend i've known for more than fifteen years had an American Pit Bull Terrier/Boxer cross, who was a good friend of mine for many years, until we were sadly obliged to bury him in April, 2000. He now has a full-bred Pit Bull Terrier bitch. Neither of these dogs has ever been a problem. Both have been well-disciplined and trained all their lives, and both are gentle, fun-loving, outgoing dogs. Brutus, the now departed dog, lived quietly in a house full of cats, where there were often litters (they once bred Siamese for sale), and patiently endured being a "jungle gym" for kittens. He would tolerate no aggression from other dogs, toward himself or any other dog, but he never attacked any dog unprovoked, and never persisted beyond the retreat of a dog. Twice cited, he was twice acquitted as a dangerous dog. Even after three consecutive debilitating strokes, he remained friendly and gentle, and recognized all of his friends, both two and four legged.

His successor, Muffin (woman's choice of name, Rolling Eyes), the pure-bred Bull Terrier, will sit quietly and patiently, and gently take pieces of hamburger from my fingertips. She never lunges, she never pushes, she is never overbearing. My friend has been diagnosed with MS, and can no longer play the rough games of tug of war that she loves. When i come over, she will rush for her rope, and then wait patiently for a break in the conversation, at which point she will come over and drop the rope in front of me, and look at me hopefully. She hasn't a mean or aggresive bone in her body.

If you meet a bad dog, they are the product of a bad or negligent human companion.
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Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Sep, 2005 08:39 pm
If you want to know the character of a man....look at his dog.
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Sep, 2005 08:44 pm
The more I see of men, the more I respect my dogs.

-- Frederick the Great
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Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Sep, 2005 08:48 pm
I loathe people who keep dogs. They are cowards who haven't got the guts to bite people themselves.

-- August Strindberg
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Sep, 2005 08:51 pm
Heaven goes by favour. If it went by merit, you would stay out and your dog would go in.

-- Samuel Langhorne Clemens
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Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Sep, 2005 08:51 pm
I disagree completely, Set. If you read this whole thread, I recount a story of a pit raised as a pet from a puppy. He was not trained to be aggressive. He later took off the nose of someone he knew very well who was playing with him. This person was the brother of the owner, and had played with him for years ... since he was a puppy.

No, pit bulls are dangerous by their nature. You might get lucky and have one that hasn't bitten, whether that's because of good training or not, but that doesn't make the dog "not dangerous." Much in the same way you might get a lion that doesn't attack, but that doesn't make the lion less dangerous. There is always the chance it will snap.

You might have anecdotal evidence of a gentle pit, but I have tons of anecdotal evidence of dangerous and violent pits. Every time I have to look at the pictures of yet another young child that's been mauled by a pit bull, it has reinforced this.



We are considering banning the breed here. I'll do what I can in support of that effort.
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Sep, 2005 08:53 pm
If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you; that is the principal difference between a dog and a man.

-- Samuel Langhorne Clemens
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Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Sep, 2005 08:55 pm
Tico,
That type of thing has happened with numerous breeds. It usually happens to someone "who was playing with him".

It is usually someone who does not understand the nature of dogs and unknowingly provokes the animal with a gesture, eye contact or some other irritation that the dog reads as a dog reads things.

This, of course, does not excuse a bite. I do, however, think it should be kept in perspective.

Have you never acted like a pitbull in the political forum? Laughing
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Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Sep, 2005 08:57 pm
Setanta wrote:
If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you; that is the principal difference between a dog and a man.

-- Samuel Langhorne Clemens


I see that you googled the same site as I did. Except for the first one, of course. That was mine. Laughing
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Sep, 2005 08:58 pm
No, i "googled" Twain, he had a lot to say about dogs. He's the origin of the "it's not the dog in the fight, it's the fight in the dog" expression which has become so popular.
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Sep, 2005 09:07 pm
From DogBiteLaw-dot-com:

Quote:
A clear distinction needs to be made between canine homicides (i.e., incidents in which dogs kill people) and the dog bite epidemic. The attention given to the homicides has put the spotlight on pit bulls and Rottweilers. Without a doubt, these two dogs are usually the number one and number two canine killers of humans. (See below, The dogs most likely to kill.) It therefore is correct to single out those two breeds when talking about canine homicides, because those two breeds cause half or more of the deaths.

However, an incorrect impression is given when talk shifts casually from the canine homicide issue to the dog bite epidemic. These are separate problems, not to be confused with each other. While killings definitely are news, and while pit bulls and Rottweilers are definitely over-represented when considering human deaths, there must be a line drawn between the homicides, for which two breeds are largely responsible, and the dog bite epidemic, which involves many different breeds.

Canine inflicted homicides have remained at the same general level (15 to 20 annually), which cannot be said for the number of dog bites, which is too high (5 million annually) and appears to be growing higher (see statistics, above). Considering the fact that there are 65 million dogs in the United States (see above), the homicide problem is minuscule. This is not to denigrate it, but to point out that eliminating it entirely would save only 15 to 20 people, out of the 5 million who are bitten by dogs.

The confusion caused by discussing the homicides and the dog bites in the same breath has its most important ramification in the area of prevention. Some are advocating the banning of pit bulls and possibly other breeds, for reasons that range from their alleged dangerousness to the fact that they are very often treated inhumanely. Those who hear about the homicides often support breed bans. (See Breed Specific Laws, Regulations and Bans.)

However, while banning the pit bull might lower the number of human deaths, such a ban would probably not reduce dog bites in any significant manner. After the United Kingdom banned pit bulls in the 1990s, a study showed that the number of dog bites remained the same even though the number of pit bulls had steeply declined. (Study cited in B. Heady and P. Krause, "Health Benefits and Potential Public Savings Due to Pets: Australian and German Survey Results," Australian Social Monitor, Vol.2, No.2, May 1999.)

As a practical matter, the current tide of public outrage should be focused on the enactment of measures that would deal effectively with the broader problem, not the more narrow one. It would be unwise to enact all kinds of controls on one breed alone, not necessarily because it would be unfair, but because it would be ineffective. The war against crime isn't a war against just the bank robbers, but against all criminals; the war against drugs isn't a war against just the Colombian drug lords, but all drug lords. For the same reason, the dog bite epidemic must not focus on just one breed and stop there.

We should be careful to distinguish between these two problems, because it would be a pity to miss what might be an opportunity to take a real bite out of the dog bite epidemic.


The author goes on to note:

Quote:
In all fairness, therefore, it must be noted that:

Any dog, treated harshly or trained to attack, may bite a person. Any dog can be turned into a dangerous dog. The owner most often is responsible -- not the breed, and not the dog.

An irresponsible owner or dog handler might create a situation that places another person in danger by a dog, without the dog itself being dangerous, as in the case of the Pomeranian that killed the infant (see above).

Any individual dog may be a good, loving pet, even though its breed is considered to be likely to bite. A responsible owner can win the love and respect of a dog, no matter its breed. One cannot look at an individual dog, recognize its breed, and then state whether or not it is going to attack. (emphasis added)


So much for snotty references to anecdotal evidence, by those who have only deployed anecdotal evidence themselves.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Sep, 2005 09:31 pm
Setanta wrote:
So much for snotty references to anecdotal evidence, by those who have only deployed anecdotal evidence themselves.


Snotty? Not at all. If you'd bother to look through my posts in this thread, you'd see that I've made it perfectly clear that my opinion is based primarily on anecdotal evidence. You are obviously a poor judge of snotty.
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Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Sep, 2005 09:31 pm
Intrepid wrote:
Have you never acted like a pitbull in the political forum? Laughing


Sure, and I'm dangerous when I do. Laughing
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Sep, 2005 09:37 pm
Ticomaya wrote:
Snotty? Not at all. If you'd bother to look through my posts in this thread, you'd see that I've made it perfectly clear that my opinion is based primarily on anecdotal evidence. You are obviously a poor judge of snotty.


Not at all, i know it when i see it.

You wrote:
You might have anecdotal evidence of a gentle pit, but I have tons of anecdotal evidence of dangerous and violent pits.


Just as you assume in the first quote that i've not read the thread, although you have no certain knowledge of the matter, in this second quote you assume that you have more anecdotal evidence of your point of view. As if that validates anecdotal evidence--god, you crack me up.
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KiwiChic
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Sep, 2005 09:43 pm
here in NZ they are not banned but there was a call for it, but nothing has been put in place so far...and there are a lot of cross breeds around I see, I myself have a Rotty and hes only 2 yrs old and hes a huge gentle giant, its my little foxy that runs the show she bosses him about and hangs off his lip, shes a little b*tch with him at times, but he just takes it, he so good with kids, but I make sure that Im always around him when children come to visit my place even though he gets put on a chain (much to his disgust)....one just never knows, better to be safe than sorry.
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LionTamerX
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Sep, 2005 09:43 pm
Gentlemen...

Those who can should retire to neutral corners and commence licking their bits....
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Sep, 2005 09:48 pm
Which bits, the dangly bits?

I ain't no dog, you know . . . oh, wait a minute . . .
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LionTamerX
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Sep, 2005 09:50 pm
I'm just sayin'....
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