Good and Bad-What is the difference?

"It was six men of Indostan
To learning much inclined,
Who went to see the Elephant
(Though all of them were blind),
That each by observation
Might satisfy his mind.


The First approached the Elephant,
And happening to fall
Against his broad and sturdy side,
At once began to bawl:
"God bless me! but the Elephant
Is very like a wall!"

The Second, feeling of the tusk
Cried, "Ho! what have we here,
So very round and smooth and sharp?
To me 'tis mighty clear
This wonder of an Elephant
Is very like a spear!"

The Third approached the animal,
And happening to take
The squirming trunk within his hands,
Thus boldly up he spake:
"I see," quoth he, "the Elephant
Is very like a snake!"

The Fourth reached out an eager hand,
And felt about the knee:
"What most this wondrous beast is like
Is mighty plain," quoth he;
"'Tis clear enough the Elephant
Is very like a tree!"

The Fifth, who chanced to touch the ear,
Said: "E'en the blindest man
Can tell what this resembles most;
Deny the fact who can,
This marvel of an Elephant
Is very like a fan!"

The Sixth no sooner had begun
About the beast to grope,
Than, seizing on the swinging tail
That fell within his scope.
"I see," quoth he, "the Elephant
Is very like a rope!"

And so these men of Indostan
Disputed loud and long,
Each in his own opinion
Exceeding stiff and strong,
Though each was partly in the right,
And all were in the wrong!

Moral:

So oft in theologic wars,
The disputants, I ween,
Rail on in utter ignorance
Of what each other mean,
And prate about an Elephant
Not one of them has seen."
.................................................................
Have a lovely day, guys haha

Piggy has never seen a neutrino... and yet he keeps talking about them as if he knows they exist. Piggy only knows about neutrinos because themscientists talk about them... and yet piggy rejects piggy.

Piggy is very confused and doesnt make any sense.

At least there is bacon (mmmmm bacon)

If you want to know about elephants talk to a zoologist. A zoologist has soent time learning about all aspects of elephants and can tell you all you eant to know.

I dont know why you would waste your time with blind touchy feely philosophers.

Although piggy appreciates the elephant story, each era has its specific mission. Then, science moves on.

So as no test as ever been performed to substantiate the claim that good is bad and bad is good ,it is only a possibility that it is true then.

So why does “eccentric” mainstream science claim that it is definitively true?

That is just “Phoney”.made up science.

Good is Good and Bad is Bad is equally relevant in both Science and Philosophy and it can also be assumed that they are different.

No experiments are required if “Phoney” science applies.

You talk total nonesense.

You are confusing "truth" with science. Science is only based on experiment. Truth is a different matter.

I cant tell you anything about truth. I can tell you about science.

We must be AWARE that the mission of crazy dog is to sabotage other’s effort. Piggy had such a regrettable experience in PHF last year.
Shouting to a crazy dog would waste our time. We must be AWARE of this point.

Yeah... Someday maybe I will learn this lesson.

Last year, in PHF, piggy encountered a crazy dog named what coffin box from what CN. When that crazy dog bit, bit and bit the pig’s *ss, piggy tried to bite back. The result was piggy dead. Horrible.
………………………………………
What’s the mission of your new era of PRESENCE and SELF? To save those ultimate stubborn “prisoner of consciousness”? Perhaps even G* is not able to do that.
After the cross - roads are two different roads extending in two different directions.

I am curious how PHF controls people like you. I believe the purpose of the site is to help serious students learn real Physics. The real Physicists there to help probably see you at least as an annoyance (and maybe as a hinderance).

I wouldn't be surprised if they banned you. If they don't do that, I am sure the guard dogs want to make sure that students know you aren't a serious Physicist.

Of course, any student with more than a semester of college Physics will know that you don't know what you are talking about when it comes to academic Physics. Maybe they could just ignore you.

The pig's *ss not brushed for quite a long time. Perhaps for a crazy dog, only the 1 off logic is applicable: good is good. haha

I am talking about real science.

The 4 off logic output possibilities is real science and is proven by sound logic.

The fact that you don’t understand it is not my problem.

You need to move on into the new era of trying to understand consciousness and how this works in science.

Remember mainstream “eccentric” science hasn’t a clue about the “hard problem” and clearly neither have you.

You are completely in the dark if you cannot see that all sciences are interconnected.

Well good for you. You've proven that dogs are cats or cats or dogs or neither cats or dogs are cats or dogs. And you have done it without any need for observation or experiment. This logic of yours is pretty cool.

You are right that this is well beyond my understanding.

I can only say it as I see it and the 4 off logic possibilities is sound.

If people can’t see it, are unable to see it or don’t want to see it well I suppose they will always remain a “prisoner of consciousness” in UNAWARENESS.

As you know AWARENESS is the key which is experiential and not not just knowledge based.

As I have said previously if good and bad are different which is a possibility that mainstream “eccentric “ science is unable to face up to then there is a MYSTERIOUS output.

What is this difference...and how is it defined?

This difference it would appear... would be an absolute.

There will be a correlation to this in science.

Until “eccentric” mainstream science can come up with definitive proof that good and bad are the same then it CAN be assumed that they are not the same because logic says this is allowed as a choice.

Neutral has the final say because neutral has both +/- or good/bad within it on BOTH sides of the fence.

Neutral is the FULCRUM (still) state.

The “see through” space state so to speak in the new era of PRESENCE and SELF.

There is no "Good" nor "Bad" in any ultimate fundamental sense.
Good and Bad are metaphors, representations, of what an individual, a group, a culture, or the species needs according to its specific biological traits.

Goodness hints at cooperation in Game Theory when cooperation is more energy efficient then competition and benefits the individual, the group, or the species...and that of course is a deal not altruistic goodness.

As for Badness it hints at misunderstanding, confusion, clash of POV's, of experiences that do not fit with the natural modus operandi of an individual, a group, or our species.

As pure phenomenological objects good and bad can be said to exist just like dreams do or the Donald Duck is as real as cartoons go...

...which by the way brings me to the problem of Truth...everything is true of course...no experience can be said to not exist if it was experienced.
After all perceptions are REAL perceptions!


The problem of course was never about that which is true and that which is not. The problem has always been about what goes "above" or "below" more upfront or relatively backward when analysing degrees of phenomenology within our species related cognitive and perceptual boundaries.

...as for Science which preaches like Religion did for all sorts of certainty and "facts" when it comes to fund raising and ditches the Truth for Philosophers when facing inconvenient questions...well Science is made by monkeys and speaks monkeish equations framed within a conceptually bounded language within monkeish disputes for intellectual territory...

...finally let us pounder on what have we had here on A2K over the last decade:
At the top of the buffet the heavy weights have been pseudo literates in Science scorned from any integral productive actual work because they are to dumb to be left at the wheel of any fundamental major research...below them we have the sequite, the fans, the followers, who upvote and downvote what the judges hint them to and praised they be that they sustain civilization and mediocrity at its finest...at the top bottom we have the loonies, the visionaries, the dreamers, the hippies, the libertarians, always cringing for more mysteries and delusions to satisfy their dopamine kick... The outrage is not that we live in between Les Miserables of Victor Hugo and Dom Quixote de la Mancha de Cervantes...the actual outrage is that the top and the bottom debate each other...such is the entanglement of stupidity of our species in which the so called best of the best are so near the worst of the worst.

...if we were to be seen in some cosmic show, an alien zoo, we sure make good entertainment!
As some sort of an "Alien" of my own kind, as a wild card I am having a great time as usual!

One can ASSUME that good and bad are the same which might be the case or one can ASSUME that good and bad are different which might be the case as well.

Are you saying the above is not accurate?

Both ingredients should be used to bake the cake.

Eccentric mainstream science is not a very good cook I’m afraid.

Compromise is what is needed for Reasonable Science to progress.

It shouldn’t be held back by biased opinions....and it definitely needs to embrace consciousness at a personal level and then integrate this into scientific reasonings.

When you are hungry is it good or bad that you kill a cow?
When you are confused lost and betrayed by the complexity of our world is it good or bad that you raise a storm? Eh? Frustration must be shown when it is real and kindness is a group deal when everybody wins...would you be a good boy without Heaven and God or a World to be good about?
Ethics is just a way of living within our collective very specific needs...it is not relative per se I do in fact believe Ethics is Universal only because as everything else it speaks fractals...in any case although the shape is the same the Ethics above does not fit our subset of languaging! We can hint at it pointing the shape but we could never talk about it with human words!

...oh damn why am I talking to you...your gibberish is so out of the charts that you prolly didn't got a single hint of an idea in all the posts I have ever wrote.

Hey I do understand fully what you have said in all your posts and I am fascinated by everyone’s opinions.

I do get the sentiment of it all.TOTALLY.

But with all due respect the root of the issue is that main stream “eccentric” science wants theories that conflict with its religion to abide by certain rules that it is not prepared to abide by itself.

Therefore my whole point is how can anyone take “eccentric” mainstream science seriously?

Why can’t mainstream “eccentric” science assume that good and bad are different as well as assuming that they are not?