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How does one PROVE that SELF is an illusion?

 
 
Jasper10
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jun, 2021 05:49 am
@htam9876,
CONSCIOUSNESS (psychology)
Imagine a matchstick man with a round head.
The matchstick man has been FORCED to try and understand how his computer brain operates as his has crashed. He is trying to get back on line.
He divides his head into two.
In both sides of his head he imagines a computer screen/ keyboard/mouse and chair. The term AUTOPILOT appears on both screens.
He notices that both computer terminals are connected together and that there is NOBODY sitting in either chair operating the computers.
One day he realises for the very first time that he has the CONSCIOUS ability to bring his focus into the moment whenever he likes. He calls this new consciousness state MANUAL. He likes this newfound consciousness state but finds that he can’t sustain it for long periods but constantly slides back into a SUB-CONSCIOUS state that he now recognises as AUTOPILOT.
What strikes him as odd is that the computer screen on the right side of his head now says MANUAL and there is someone sitting at the chair working away. The computer screen on the left side however, still says AUTOPILOT and remains unoccupied.
In the following months he practices bringing himself into the moment more and more, he notices that for some reason both computer screen inscriptions keep alternating between AUTOPILOT and MANUAL. One minute the person working at the computer is on the right and then the next he is on the left. Whichever terminal he is working at only ever has MANUAL appearing on the screen. It looks as if the person is communicating with the other computer.
He wonders what is being communicated. He can’t work it out but knows that he feels conflict within himself and is suffering with anxieties.
With all the practicing, the matchstick man gradually becomes AWARE that the reason he keeps sliding backwards and forwards from AUTOPILOT to MANUAL is directly related to thoughts. The sliding occurs only when he ENGAGES/DISENGAGES with them.
He concludes that he will never think again as that will stop the sliding. He knows that this a silly notion however.
What strikes him as really odd is that the unoccupied screen now reads STILL THOUGHTS rather than AUTOPILOT. The person on the other screen is still busily working away, the screen still reads MANUAL. Once again, over time, he notices that the screen instructions and the person sitting at the screen keep swapping places.
He thinks to himself, how can I stop thinking? He then notices himself come back into MANUAL automatically. He didn’t have to put any effort in.
One day he decides to try and test the silly theory. He tries to stop his thoughts. He has recently learnt a technique for staying in touch with himself, he calls this technique putting on his body. He has already mastered this technique. He knows the importance of wearing his body always and that he needs to stay in touch with his five senses.

He meditates daily on staying in touch with his five senses and then as part of this process he then turns his attention to his head.
He becomes more and more persuaded that the backward and forward communications that go on between his left and right computers are directly related to his ENGAGING/DISENGAGING with thoughts.
He learns to stop ENGAGING/DISENGAGING with these thoughts rather he learns to remain STILL and observe /listen instead.
When they both do this, they notice that both computer screens are now reading MANUAL and that both seats are occupied with persons busily working away.
What surprises them most however is that the matchstick man is still able to think in this newly found STILL consciousness state.
He calls this new STILL consciousness state NEUTRAL.
Jasper10
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jun, 2021 06:08 am
@Jasper10,
All sciences are INTERCONNECTED.
0 Replies
 
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jun, 2021 08:31 am
And everything else too
Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jun, 2021 10:19 pm
@Leadfoot,
It is funny that you believe everything is interconnected and still can believe in a classical sense of self which is not a form of a persistent delusion. A REAL illusion mind you...the classical sense of "self" implies a clear Apartheid between self and the world...one which I don't buy precisely because indeed the cliché that everything is interconnected is the kind of sentence that many utter but most don't actually understand.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Jun, 2021 06:55 am
@Albuquerque,
It's because I've experienced 'other'/not me as well.
Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Jun, 2021 10:11 am
@Leadfoot,
What "other"? What "self"?
"You" just experiences!...
"You" belong to the Absolute.
Leadfoot
 
  2  
Reply Wed 30 Jun, 2021 11:53 am
@Albuquerque,
I do like the thought of belonging to him.
0 Replies
 
htam9876
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Jun, 2021 06:01 pm
@Jasper10,
As piggy said ahead ““piggy always feels that in pure philosophy people concern more about “subjective consciousness””.
As you said ahead “let the mind process things”.

Your story of matchstick man (AUTOPILOT-MANUAL) seems a bit complicated and awkward. Piggy’s story of pork seems a bit simple and smooth.

“He learns to stop ENGAGING/DISENGAGING with these thoughts rather he learns to remain STILL and observe /listen instead.”
The correlation in science is “when we research the PRESENCE and SELF, we need not to take specific physical environment such as movement or gravity into consideration” as piggy said once upon a time in another thread.

“He calls this new STILL consciousness state NEUTRAL.”
The correlation in science of the “STILL consciousness state NEUTRAL” is “without specific physical environment”. That’s to research the PRESENCE and SELF.

You use one general word in philosophy, while piggy has to use several words in different situation.
Actually the word “neutral” means non – charged in physics. The case of oscillation of neutrino means it can oscillate among three states: positive – charged, neutral and negative – charged. It’s the PRESENCE and SELF changes. Not “consciousness” (specific physical environment). Even in this case, the rule of “when we research the PRESENCE and SELF, we need not to take specific physical environment into consideration” remains applicable.

Just meditate in pure philosophical imagination, you will confuse more and more. Piggy is afraid.
Merely toggle toggle NEUTRAL NEUTRAL can not solve the problems in science.
…………………………………………………………..
View the world from the angle of “consciousness” level, more or less piggy feels confusing, but piggy knows that it’s “reasonable” in the category of “consciousness”. View the world from the higher perspective of “PRESENCE and SELF” (the deeper level), piggy feels more explicit.

There is a new example in a new thread “It is said that reason is something that Guides us to truer knowledge and better decisions”. View from the angle of the era of “consciousness”, it’s not wrong. The “reason” was “there might be many “inappropriate” methods of description in science”. So, piggy decided to touch the elephant from the higher perspective of “PRESENCE and SELF” and the “PRESENCE and SELF” to “Guides us to truer knowledge”.
But view from the era of the “PRESENCE and SELF”, pursuing “truer knowledge” is just its “mission” (SELF) associated with this new era, no matter those “inappropriate” methods of description appeared in history or not (“reason” exists or not).

Those “prisoner of consciousness” never can be AWARE of what’s in control / decision.
So, they are destined to be LEFT behind.
Jasper10
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Jul, 2021 03:55 am
@htam9876,
My story of the matchstick man is used to try and demonstrate the "closed loop" system or the "hamsters wheel" system or "prisoner of consciousness" system and is directly related to psychology.

The "toggling" consciousness states have correlations with the logic output possibilities of 0,0...0,1...1,0...1,1.A "0" is representative of AUTOPILOT and a "1" is representative of MANUAL.

The matchstick man principle can be directly TESTED and PROVEN by the individual EXPERIENTIALLY....if the individual is sufficiently AWARE and has understood that they need to take CONTROL.

Your statement…..Merely toggle toggle NEUTRAL NEUTRAL can not solve the problems in science...……is a very interesting statement.

I agree that both NEUTRALS can have a + or - bias because both NEUTRALS have the "toggling" effect within them.

My theory as you already know, is that BOTH neutrals are balanced systems.






htam9876
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Jul, 2021 07:08 pm
@Jasper10,
Your theory did push science into a new era. But the key could be that “eccentric” rabbit Dandan knows your theory, I think. Otherwise, he never knows rabbit meat contains 90 percent of protein, good is good. Haha.

(What piggy can do is waiting to die in what CN. Piggy really doesn’t know when the First Order would decide to shout “execute”, and then piggy will entirely disappear in this cosmos.
Piggy can’t be controlled by the First Order. If piggy surrenders to them again, perhaps it would be another method of death. That means piggy die hard in what CN. It’s very simple logic. Piggy thinks that such philosopher as you is capable to know it.)
htam9876
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Jul, 2021 07:14 pm
The chirality of the spiral spring would not change following movement in different velocities. Left - handed is left- handed, right - handed is right- handed.

The result of integration of the wave function of electric interaction in piggy’s unit charge model would not change following different values of momentum p (movement in different velocities). Positive is positive, negative is negative.

Charge would not change following movement in different velocities in classical electromagnetism. Positive is positive, negative is negative.

Coincidence again?
Or “All sciences are INTERCONNECTED.”? SELF is not controlled by “consciousness”?

View from the new era of the “PRESENCE and SELF”, pursuing “truer knowledge” is just its “mission” (SELF) associated with it.

Liqiang Chen
July 3 , 2021
给他江门地方黑恶势力钟永康集团及新会一中九一四班谁谁一个超文革赛阎王光荣称号快快全世界全宇宙打靶啦。当今时代,全世界没有什么人能够值得如此殊荣。呵呵
0 Replies
 
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Jul, 2021 08:54 am
@htam9876,
Quote:
If piggy surrenders to them again, perhaps it would be another method of death.

Live free or die piggy. Don't let the bastards grind you down.
Jasper10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Jul, 2021 12:17 am
@htam9876,
So we are looking at a STILL neutron (FULCRUM) with neutrons within it which have “toggling” +/- charges within them.The whole overall system being balanced.

A “see-saw” system.

High five!!
0 Replies
 
htam9876
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Jul, 2021 06:28 pm
@Leadfoot,
No bad a comment.
Piggy is contemplating to dig a hole under the fence and flee to America, live free.
It’s said that there are many wild ducks in the farms of America. Even with bad shooting skill, a man can get good harvest. There might be wild pigs too? As well as wild rabbits, very big? Haha
htam9876
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Jul, 2021 06:32 pm
Actually piggy has been “grinded” by the local dark lords of the Jiangmen city(江门地方黑恶势力钟永康集团) and the who who of the Class 914 of the No.1 Middle School of Xinhui (新会一中九一四班谁谁) for so many years. “Down” again and again. Piggy’s life has been shortened at least ten plus years. Piggy’s pulse could stop at any time. Piggy now is in very bad mental situation and bad health.
So, piggy is not qualified to accept their definition / standard as a drudge or a half – self payment watchman. Die hard. Bounce…

There was an old story decades ago in the era of the so called Great Revolution of Culture (文化大革命), abbreviated as “文革”. It’s said that a local student achieved excellent score in middle school and was enrolled by a university. But unfortunately some local “bastards” didn’t allow him to go to university. To make a living, that excellent student became a teacher. He was once piggy’s teacher of physics: Huang Sir (黄老师) in the local Yaxi Middle School (崖西中学).

Memorialize the late Huang Sir (黄老师) hereby.
0 Replies
 
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Jul, 2021 03:10 pm
@htam9876,
Quote:
It’s said that there are many wild ducks in the farms of America. Even with bad shooting skill, a man can get good harvest. There might be wild pigs too? As well as wild rabbits, very big? Haha

There are deer and wild turkeys parading down my runway every morning, enough to feed the neighborhood all winter. My neighbor isn’t too happy with them. Had to repair his plane after colliding with a doe earlier this year. The deer was fine. Now we always do a low pass to clear it before landing.

Good luck piggy, Look me up if you make it under the fence.
htam9876
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Jul, 2021 09:33 am
@Leadfoot,
Perhaps that rabbit Dandan can emerge in two holes
You and your neighborh would love it very much.
0 Replies
 
htam9876
 
  0  
Reply Thu 8 Jul, 2021 01:43 am
How did a “prisoner of consciousness” generate? Touchy and feely:

Set out from the PRESENCE of spherical electromagnetic wave (simplified physical model as the “circle kind standing wave”) and the SELF of the mass – space integrity which reflected by the mass – space equation “r ∝1/ M” or “L ∝1/ M”;

Let it carry the effect of specific physical environment of movement: L’ ∝1/ M;
We can resort to a specific proportionate constant k, it will be a “whole” formula: L’ = k / M

Because the rest mass M0 and the mean length L are constants, let k = M0L;
Then: L’ = M0L / M;
So, ML’ = M0L;

Play math game:
L’ = L /γ (relativistic space) Here γ is the Gama factor in SR;
M = γM0 (relativistic mass) Here γ is the Gama factor in SR;

Philosophical analysis:

“Consciousness” “claimed a limitation” for people so that those people became “prisoner of consciousness”. Those “prisoner of consciousness” consider that “consciousness” is in CONTROL.
Namely, those “prisoner of consciousness” “sure enough” that space / length contraction is caused by velocity. So, their “consciousness” made a false impression for their thought that space / length contraction is just in the direction of movement.

But for those people who are AWARE and have entered into the new era of PRESENCE and SELF, consider that PRESENCE and SELF is in CONTROL.
Namely, they consider that the space / length contraction is caused by mass – space integrity (L ∝1 / M). Because mass is a scalar without direction, they understand that space / length contraction is in all directions.


0 Replies
 
htam9876
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Jul, 2021 02:24 pm
The trouble of the so called what “transverse and longitudinal mass” also came from those “prisoner of consciousness” “sure enough” velocity in CONTROL.

Below is abstract from Vanhees71’s post in a physics site:
“Einstein abandoned quite quickly the idea of relativistic masses. If you want to introduce this very confusing idea that the mass depends on the velocity of a particle, then you must introduce not only one such quantity but at least two, i.e., "transverse and longitudinal mass". This is utmost confusing and thus not done anymore by physicists using the special or general theory of relativity in contemporary research,…”

Piggy’s humble opinion is that what “confusing” is just their “consciousness”. If they are willing to enter the new era of PRESENCE and SELF, such “very confusing idea” automatically disappears. (The dynamic internal energy equation E = mc². The internal energy E is a SELF in CONTROL. E is a scalar without direction. So, the dynamic / relativistic mass m is also without direction.)
According to the mass – space equation (L ∝1 / M), if space can be relativistic, then mass should be relativistic too.

The mutual action between mass – space (mass – space integrity) is a fundamental natural relation.

The fun thing is that those “prisoner of consciousness” has to abandon something true and fundamental in physics just due to “confusing”of their “consciousness”.
Those “prisoner of consciousness” never can be AWARE of the FULCRUM over their head.



Jasper10
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Jul, 2021 11:53 pm
@htam9876,
Consciousness doesn’t CONTROL consciousness, SELF does or rather SELF can if AWARE rather than being UNAWARE.

I am not consciousness,I know that I am not because I can SHIFT my consciousness state from not in the moment (autopilot) to in the moment (manual) any time I like.

SELF is separate from consciousness and has authority over it.

Does SELF exercise that authority is the question? or is SELF content to remain a prisoner of it.
 

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