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Covid Vaccine Informal Poll and Drinking Society

 
 
edgarblythe
 
  3  
Reply Wed 5 May, 2021 03:30 pm
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:

in a biotech pop news, it was discussed that tweaking vaccines for mutational variants isnt a problem,. the real problems are in production snd distribution

Getting folks to take it is the other half of the problem. - Yogi Berra
roger
 
  2  
Reply Wed 5 May, 2021 04:15 pm
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:

It's all about supply eh. We don't make any of the vaccines so depend on when stuff arrives. Apparently enough for about 5x the population was ordered, now we need it to get here.



Latest talk is that 3 shots may be needed this year , plus annual boosters. Yuck.

I'll second the Yuck
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 May, 2021 05:29 pm
@edgarblythe,
glad to read your post eb.
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Wed 5 May, 2021 05:42 pm
@farmerman,
I've had my first shot. Pfizer. Waiting for #2.
edgarblythe
 
  3  
Reply Wed 5 May, 2021 05:43 pm
@edgarblythe,
I didn't need it since I drink bleach but the wife said I should.
glitterbag
 
  2  
Reply Thu 6 May, 2021 05:04 pm
@edgarblythe,
Can't be too careful.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  2  
Reply Fri 7 May, 2021 02:48 am
Our Pathetic Herd Immunity Failure

Quote:
Could today’s version of America have been able to win World War II? It hardly seems possible.

That victory required national cohesion, voluntary sacrifice for the common good and trust in institutions and each other. America’s response to Covid-19 suggests that we no longer have sufficient quantities of any of those things.

In 2020 Americans failed to socially distance and test for the coronavirus and suffered among the highest infection and death rates in the developed world. Millions decided that wearing a mask infringed their individual liberty.

This week my Times colleague Apoorva Mandavilli reported that experts now believe that America will not achieve herd immunity anytime soon. Instead of largely beating this disease it could linger, as a more manageable threat, for generations. A major reason is that about 30 percent of the U.S. population is reluctant to get vaccinated.

We’re not asking you to storm the beaches of Iwo Jima; we’re asking you to walk into a damn CVS.

Americans have always been an individualistic people who don’t like being told what to do. But in times of crisis, they have historically still had the capacity to form what Alexis de Tocqueville called a “social body,” a coherent community capable of collective action. During World War I, for example, millions served at home and abroad to win a faraway war, responding to recruiting posters that read “I Want You” and “Americans All.”

That basic sense of peoplehood, of belonging to a common enterprise with a shared destiny, is exactly what’s lacking today. Researchers and reporters who talk to the vaccine-hesitant find that the levels of distrust, suspicion and alienation that have marred politics are now thwarting the vaccination process. They find people who doubt the competence of the medical establishment or any establishment, who assume as a matter of course that their fellow countrymen are out to con, deceive and harm them.

This “the only person you can trust is yourself” mentality has a tendency to cause people to conceive of themselves as individuals and not as citizens. Derek Thompson of The Atlantic recently contacted more than a dozen people who were refusing to get a Covid-19 vaccine. They often used an argument you’ve probably heard, too: I’m not especially vulnerable. I may have already gotten the virus. If I get it in the future it won’t be that bad. Why should I take a risk on an experimental vaccine?

They are reasoning mostly on a personal basis. They are thinking about what’s right for them as individuals more than what’s right for the nation and the most vulnerable people in it. It’s not that they are rebuking their responsibilities as citizens; it apparently never occurs to them that they might have any. When Thompson asked them to think in broader terms, they seemed surprised and off balance.

The causes of this isolation and distrust are as plentiful as there are stars in the heavens. But there are a few things we can say. Most of the time distrust is earned distrust. Trust levels in any society tend to be reasonably accurate representations of how trustworthy that society has been. Trust is the ratio of the times someone has shown up for you versus the times somebody has betrayed you. Marginalized groups tend to be the most distrustful, for good reasons — they’ve been betrayed.

The other thing to say is that once it is established, distrust tends to accelerate. If you distrust the people around you because you think they have bad values or are out to hurt you, then you are going to be slow to reach out to solve common problems. Your problems will have a tendency to get worse, which seems to justify and then magnify your distrust. You have entered a distrust doom loop.

A lot of Americans have seceded from the cultural, political and social institutions of national life. As a result, the nation finds it hard to perform collective action. Our pathetic Covid response may not be the last or worst consequence of this condition.

How do you rebuild trust? At the local level you recruit diverse people to complete tangible tasks together, like building a park. At the national level you demonstrate to people in concrete ways that they are not forgotten, that someone is coming through for them.

Which brings us to Joe Biden. The Biden agenda would pour trillions of dollars into precisely those populations who have been left out and are most distrustful — the people who used to work in manufacturing and who might now get infrastructure jobs, or the ones who care for the elderly. This money would not only ease their financial stress, but it would also be a material display that someone sees them, that we are in this together. These measures, if passed, would be extraordinary tangible steps to reduce the sense of menace and threat that undergirds this whole psychology.

The New Deal was an act of social solidarity that created the national cohesion we needed to win World War II. I am not in the habit of supporting massive federal spending proposals. But in this specific context — in the midst of a distrust doom loop — this is our best shot of reversing the decline.

nyt/brooks
ehBeth
 
  0  
Reply Fri 7 May, 2021 04:54 pm
@farmerman,
I'm down to a few hours of internet a week. Keeps me somewhat saner . Sticking mostly with Dr Juni for info when I can catch him on the news/radio. science guy[url]
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 May, 2021 04:56 pm
@hightor,
That 30% is a familiar kinda number. Can't imagine why. Cool
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 May, 2021 05:08 pm
@hightor,
I hate this kind of crap. It isn't even factually correct.

The claim is that the United State has "among the highest infection and death rates in the develop world" is simply false. We are in the middle of the pack all

- Italy
- Belgium
- The United Kingdom
- Poland

All have higher rates than the US and any of these countries are in the developed world by any reckoning. Countries like Hungary, Moldova, Slovenia, Peru... also have higher rates.

This "America is doomed" narrative is getting tiresome.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 May, 2021 05:12 pm
Human beings are human beings the world around. I challenge anyone to suggest that their citizens are any less "pathetic" than Americans... name a country and we will look at the statistics.

1. Public health needs to take into account that human beings aren't robots. You can't just give someone a program and expect 100% compliance. That isn't how human beings work.

2. The public health messaging about the covid virus has been wretched. The CDC (and the WHO for that matter) keeps giving contradictory messaging.

If you want people to comply, you can start by talking with us clearly and directly.

It is the public health authorities that have failed.
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Fri 7 May, 2021 05:21 pm
@ehBeth,
Ive mostly given up on A2k and am more involved with my plein -air painting and reconnecting with family after almost a year of all kinds of craziness. Im glad to see that my cousins and in laws and neighbors have NOT lost their senses of humor. Still have trouble getting into Canada without special reasons other than just "Visiting friends" . Maybe thatll change soon. A fe of us want to get up to Cape Blomidan NS to complete the wishes of a colleague /friend who died from covid and his ashes we plan to commend to the Bay where he did much of his writing.
hightor
 
  5  
Reply Sat 8 May, 2021 06:01 am
@maxdancona,
Quote:
It isn't even factually correct.

Actually, it is. We have way more cases than any other country, and it's only the improving quality of treatment which has kept deaths/100K at a moderate level. Infection rate and death rate measure two different things.
Quote:

This "America is doomed" narrative is getting tiresome.

Where does the author say that?

You know what's really getting tiresome? – your inability to read an article or a post without misinterpreting the content and putting words into people's mouths.
snood
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 May, 2021 06:15 am
@hightor,
Word
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  -4  
Reply Sat 8 May, 2021 10:27 am
@hightor,
You are full of crap Hightor. (And I am glad snood agrees with you again, you seem to be the latest A2K couple.).

1. I have no problem accepting where you are factually correct. The US with 328 million people has more covid cases and deaths than the UK with 66 million people (or Italy or Hungary).

2. Are you able to accept the fact that many countries, including the UK and Hungary, and Belgium and Italy have a higher death rate (i.e. deaths per 100,000 people) from covid than the US.

The problem with your absolutist political position is that you twist the facts to fit your narrative, and reject any facts that question it.

The original claim was that the US has a higher rate of death, and that is factually incorrect.
0 Replies
 
jespah
 
  4  
Reply Sat 8 May, 2021 10:51 am
Please fight elsewhere, folks.

Many thanks.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  3  
Reply Sat 8 May, 2021 11:41 am
@farmerman,
Quote:
A fe of us want to get up to Cape Blomidan NS to complete the wishes of a colleague /friend who died from covid and his ashes we plan to commend to the Bay where he did much of his writing.

Didn't NS have one of the lowest rates of infection in Canada? How unfortunate for your friend.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 19 May, 2021 10:38 pm
@snood,
snood wrote:
Hey Hightor,
How did you get the shots that early?

I'm now willing to reveal what I did to get all of my elderly friends and relatives January appointments.

One of the health departments in my area had a system where they had a secret website for signing up for appointments.

They had a waiting list, and they only let a few people at a time know the link to this signup website.

I managed to figure out the link to their secret signup page. So I simply signed up all of my elderly friends and relatives without them needing to wait their turn on the waiting list.

This is also why, once my own age group became eligible, I got my shot during my very first week of eligibility. I too didn't bother with the waiting list.
snood
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 May, 2021 05:50 am
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:

snood wrote:
Hey Hightor,
How did you get the shots that early?

I'm now willing to reveal what I did to get all of my elderly friends and relatives January appointments.

One of the health departments in my area had a system where they had a secret website for signing up for appointments.

They had a waiting list, and they only let a few people at a time know the link to this signup website.

I managed to figure out the link to their secret signup page. So I
simply signed up all of my elderly friends and relatives without them needing to wait their turn on the waiting list.

This is also why, once my own age group became eligible, I got my shot during my very first week of eligibility. I too didn't bother with the waiting list.


Wow. That might even be interesting if anyone had been curious about, or asked you about your vaccines.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Thu 20 May, 2021 07:04 pm
@maxdancona,
Quote:
1. Public health needs to take into account that human beings aren't robots. You can't just give someone a program and expect 100% compliance. That isn't how human beings work.


Well it would tend to get rid of the stupid ones at least.
0 Replies
 
 

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