8
   

Republican Party Split?

 
 
Reply Mon 22 Feb, 2021 07:57 am
Quote:
An exclusive Suffolk University/USA TODAY Poll finds Trump's support largely unshaken after his second impeachment trial in the Senate, this time on a charge of inciting an insurrection in the deadly assault on the Capitol Jan. 6.

By double digits, 46%-27%, those surveyed say they would abandon the GOP and join the Trump party if the former president decided to create one. The rest are undecided.


This pretty much mirrors the split in the Democratic Party in the 40's when the Democrats rejected the "Dixiecrats" and the party split in the 1948 election and began the migration of the white nationalist group to the Republicans. So will the Republican Party also reject their white nationalist wing and split? Right now it looks like the white nationalist wing will expand its control over the party and leave traditional Republicans hanging. Can the Democrats appeal to them or will they be the new independents?
 
hightor
 
  2  
Reply Mon 22 Feb, 2021 09:44 am
@engineer,
Quote:
Can the Democrats appeal to them or will they be the new independents?

If they turn independent they might have a difficult time electing any third party candidate who shares their views. If they vote for Democrats they might have a difficult time finding any candidate who shares their views — at least on the national level.
engineer
 
  3  
Reply Mon 22 Feb, 2021 09:48 am
@hightor,
Maybe, but there are plenty of swing districts across the country. Their problem now is they face a more liberal Democrat and a more radical Republican in the final election. If they voted in the Democratic primary, they could potentially get a more moderate Democrat in the final election.
revelette3
 
  3  
Reply Mon 22 Feb, 2021 09:52 am
@hightor,
It does pose a dilemma. Right now the Democrats are going more left so the republicans who might abandon Trump's riot republicans might find themselves in no man's land. I am not sure how democrats could expand their platform to appeal to these migrant republicans without losing the more progressive democrats or even if that is desirable.
hightor
 
  2  
Reply Mon 22 Feb, 2021 09:58 am
@engineer,
Quote:
If they voted in the Democratic primary, they could potentially get a more moderate Democrat in the final election.

And the progressives put up their own candidate rather than support a moderate.
hightor
 
  2  
Reply Mon 22 Feb, 2021 10:04 am
@revelette3,
Quote:
I am not sure how democrats could expand their platform to appeal to these migrant republicans without losing the more progressive democrats or even if that is desirable.

A lot may depend on how well Biden governs. If he can achieve some successes which appeal to both the moderates and the progressives the party may get some breathing space for a while. I'd like to see the party evolve into a more progressive organization rather than being hijacked by frustrated leftists with unworkable ideas.
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  2  
Reply Mon 22 Feb, 2021 11:27 am
@hightor,
hightor wrote:

Quote:
If they voted in the Democratic primary, they could potentially get a more moderate Democrat in the final election.

And the progressives put up their own candidate rather than support a moderate.

Exactly. Right now, they are being outvoted by the extreme right and the moderate Democrats are being outvoted by the extreme left. If all the moderates ended up in one party they could win some of those primaries. There are a number of moderate Democrats in the House, a few in the Senate, that would attract such voters.
revelette3
 
  0  
Reply Mon 22 Feb, 2021 11:31 am
@engineer,
In which case I would find myself confused for the first time in adult life of which party to vote under. Mostly moderate, but some way left and even a few more right.
0 Replies
 
revelette3
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Feb, 2021 08:15 am
McConnell Plays the Long Game with Trump | Opinion

Sums up the civil war in the republican party very well. Who will win in the long term is a mystery to me.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Feb, 2021 11:03 am
The moderate Democrats are in play.

One possibility is that the Republicans swing to the center, and the Democrats succumb to the left. There are a number of traditional democrats who are being alienated by some of the nonsense coming from the left.

It is not correct to think that Americans fit perfectly into the polar extremes (as much as people on both the left and the right like to imagine). There are a lot of people who were horrified by Trump and are also put off by Ocasio-Cortez.

tsarstepan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Feb, 2021 11:13 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

The moderate Democrats are in play.

One possibility is that the Republicans swing to the center,

Wrong. Alleged moderate Republicans (outside of the likes of Mitt Romney) are running away from their moderate positions near the center for the far-right hills. Especially those who are sticking to their Trump guns.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Feb, 2021 11:25 am
@tsarstepan,
And where are alleged moderate Democrats running?
tsarstepan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Feb, 2021 11:29 am
@maxdancona,
They seem to be staying put. They happen to like Biden, who's a centrist Democrat and not a particularly progressive leaner.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Feb, 2021 12:19 pm
@tsarstepan,
I don't know if anyone really likes Biden. He is defined by what he is not.

He is not Trump (which is why he was elected). He is also not progressive, not visionary, not truly moderate, not inspiring... . Every time I see him I just feel like I am watching an old man who doesn't really belong there. We elected Biden because we wanted to get rid of Trump. He is a placeholder. He will do the right thing on Covid, punt on immigration (hopefully without making things worse) and then fade away.

My concern is what happens to the Democratic party in two years and four years.


tsarstepan
 
  2  
Reply Tue 23 Feb, 2021 12:24 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

I don't know if anyone really likes Biden. He is defined by what he is not.

He is not Trump (which is why he was elected). He is also not progressive, not visionary, not truly moderate, not inspiring... . Every time I see him I just feel like I am watching an old man who doesn't really belong there. We elected Biden because we wanted to get rid of Trump. He is a placeholder. He will do the right thing on Covid, punt on immigration (hopefully without making things worse) and then fade away.

My concern is what happens to the Democratic party in two years and four years.

None of this contradicts anything I have ever written on a2k, Facebook, Twitter, etc....

Why don't you ... 1. stay on topic for this thread. 2. create a second topic discussing these concerns about the Democratic Party? Are you capable of doing that?
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Feb, 2021 12:36 pm
@tsarstepan,
You brought up Biden. Now you are whining because I responded to your off topic post? Geez!

We have a two-party system. The system works (and evolves) because both parties are after voters. The Republican party will do what it has to do to survive, and the Democratic party will respond. You can't talk about changes to one party without understanding how the other party is responding.

One possibility is that the Republican party swings to the center. I see the Democratic party becoming more extreme, partially because after Trump there is some slack for them to move to the far left. They counted on an anti-Trump vote that they may not be able to depend upon in future elections.

Trump upset the system. I suggesting that what we might see is overreaction, adjustment and then resettling on both sides.

tsarstepan
 
  2  
Reply Tue 23 Feb, 2021 12:42 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

You brought up Biden. Now you are whining because I responded to your off topic post? Geez!


#FFS!
maxdancona wrote:

And where are alleged moderate Democrats running?


Check your damned time stamps. Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  4  
Reply Tue 23 Feb, 2021 01:01 pm
@hightor,
hightor wrote:

If they turn independent they might have a difficult time electing any third party candidate who shares their views. If they vote for Democrats they might have a difficult time finding any candidate who shares their views — at least on the national level.

I think I missed this when posted earlier. The Democrats have nominated Clinton, Gore, Kerry, Obama, Clinton and Biden. Those are all pretty centrist Democrats. While more strident progressives have made inroads in certain districts, the Democratic party is still pretty moderate, much more than progressives like. Sanders is not the face of the Democratic Party.
hightor
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Feb, 2021 01:19 pm
@engineer,
Quote:
The Democrats have nominated Clinton, Gore, Kerry, Obama, Clinton and Biden.

'92, '00, '04, 08, '16, '20...over nearly three decades, the progressives in the party have grown in number, and many of them sat out the '16 election. Even Biden has been pushed left — to the extent that he might be considered too progressive for many moderate Republicans. In '24, what might then be considered a "moderate" Democrat may be too progressive for them. That's what I was saying. It really depends on how successful Biden is at keeping the progressives relatively happy while not completely ceding them control.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Feb, 2021 01:20 pm
@engineer,
Hillary Clinton was not a politically moderate candidate. I make a bit of a distinction here between politics and policy. When it comes to electoral politics what matters is what voters see a candidate as standing for (not what said candidate will actually do). That's how elections work. Hillary alienated a lot of people in the center left who should have been solidly in her camp (and some of us voted for her anyway)

Obama governed from the center, but he ran undoubtedly from the left. Obama also (for whatever reason) governed over the period of time when the present political rift widened dramatically.

I would agree that Bill Clinton, Gore and Kerry were moderates in every sense of the word... but politics were much different back then.




0 Replies
 
 

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