12
   

Monitoring Biden and other Contemporary Events

 
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Tue 23 Mar, 2021 07:54 pm
@BillW,
BillW wrote:
https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/12543393/GUN_SCATTER2.jpg
Kind of amazing! Can't remember how to resize pictures, sorry but it does kinda emphasize the overwhelming results.

Meh. Interesting trivia I guess. But really, so what?

These people would be just as dead if they were killed with knives or with some other kind of weapon.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Wed 24 Mar, 2021 07:43 am
The US has slipped 11 points in a decade in rankings of world's democracies – below Argentina and Mongolia – according the latest report by a democracy watchdog.

The US has fallen to a new low in a global ranking of political rights and civil liberties, a drop fueled by unequal treatment of minority groups, damaging influence of money in politics, and increased polarization, according to a new report by Freedom House, a democracy watchdog group.

The US earned 83 out of 100 possible points this year in Freedom House’s annual rankings of freedoms around the world, an 11-point drop from its 94 ranking a decade ago. The US’s new ranking places it on par with countries like Panama, Romania and Croatia and behind countries such as Argentina and Mongolia. It lagged far behind countries like Germany (94), the United Kingdom (93), Chile (93), Costa Rica (91), France and Slovakia (both 90).

From Crisis to Reform: A Call to Strengthen America’s Battered Democracy
(>Countries and Territories<)


Frank Apisa
 
  3  
Wed 24 Mar, 2021 08:49 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:


The US has slipped 11 points in a decade in rankings of world's democracies – below Argentina and Mongolia – according the latest report by a democracy watchdog.

The US has fallen to a new low in a global ranking of political rights and civil liberties, a drop fueled by unequal treatment of minority groups, damaging influence of money in politics, and increased polarization, according to a new report by Freedom House, a democracy watchdog group.

The US earned 83 out of 100 possible points this year in Freedom House’s annual rankings of freedoms around the world, an 11-point drop from its 94 ranking a decade ago. The US’s new ranking places it on par with countries like Panama, Romania and Croatia and behind countries such as Argentina and Mongolia. It lagged far behind countries like Germany (94), the United Kingdom (93), Chile (93), Costa Rica (91), France and Slovakia (both 90).

From Crisis to Reform: A Call to Strengthen America’s Battered Democracy
(>Countries and Territories<)


The fact that we have fallen this far...is so disheartening, it tears at my soul. I can hope that we improve, but the political reality right now is that we will probably fall even lower.

hightor
 
  1  
Wed 24 Mar, 2021 09:01 am
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:

The fact that we have fallen this far...is so disheartening, it tears at my soul.

I hear you. And yet sometimes I think the whole self image of the USA as a functional democracy is just a conceit, a story we tell ourselves based on a bowdlerized version of our history, when in reality, the ideal for which we strive is that of, as pointed out by R.H. Tawney in 1920, an acquisitive society.
Quote:
Such societies may be called Acquisitive Societies, because their whole tendency and interest and preoccupation is to promote the acquisition of wealth. The appeal of this conception must be powerful, for it has laid the whole modern world under its spell. Since England first revealed the possibilities of industrialism, it has gone from strength to strength, and as industrial civilization invades countries hitherto remote from it, as Russia and Japan and India and China are drawn into its orbit, each decade sees a fresh extension of its influence. The secret of its triumph is obvious. It is an invitation to men to use the powers with which they have been endowed by nature or society, by skill or energy or relentless egotism or mere good fortune, without inquiring whether there is any principle by which their exercise should be limited. It assumes the social organization which determines the opportunities which different classes shall in fact possess, and concentrates attention upon the right of those who possess or can acquire power to make the fullest use of it for their own self-advancement. By fixing men's minds, not upon the discharge of social obligations, which restricts their energy, because it defines the goal to which it should be directed, but upon the exercise of the right to pursue their own self-interest, it offers unlimited scope for the acquisition of riches, and therefore gives free play to one of the most powerful of human instincts. To the strong it promises unfettered freedom for the exercise of their strength; to the weak the hope that they too one day may be strong. Before the eyes of both it suspends a golden prize, which not all can attain, but for which each may strive, the enchanting vision of infinite expansion. It assures men that there are no ends other than their ends, no law other than their desires, no limit other than that which they think advisable. Thus it makes the individual the center of his own universe, and dissolves moral principles into a choice of expediences. And it immensely simplifies the problems of social life in complex communities. For it relieves them of the necessity of discriminating between different types of economic activity and different sources of wealth, between enterprise and avarice, energy and unscrupulous greed, property which is legitimate and property which is theft, the just enjoyment of the fruits of labor and the idle parasitism of birth or fortune, because it treats all economic activities as standing upon the same level, and suggests that excess or defect, waste or superfluity, require no conscious effort of the social will to avert them, but are corrected almost automatically by the mechanical play of economic forces.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Wed 24 Mar, 2021 09:09 am
@Frank Apisa,
It certainly looks bad, especially, if you lokk at the graph

Quote:
https://i.imgur.com/G2PoYsm.jpg


But the "Conclusion and recommendations" (see in above link) look promising for positive change:
• "Lower barriers to voting as part of a comprehensive effort to address racial injustice."
• "Curb the influence of money in politics by tightening campaign finance laws."
• "Reduce political polarization and extremism by establishing independent redistricting commissions."
snood
 
  1  
Wed 24 Mar, 2021 10:38 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:



But the "Conclusion and recommendations" (see in above link) look promising for positive change:
• "Lower barriers to voting as part of a comprehensive effort to address racial injustice."
• "Curb the influence of money in politics by tightening campaign finance laws."
• "Reduce political polarization and extremism by establishing independent redistricting commissions."


Promising? Have you gotten some kind of indication that our government can change their behavior to being productive and healthy? I must’ve missed that.
MontereyJack
 
  2  
Wed 24 Mar, 2021 04:46 pm
@snood,
WELL WE DO HAVE SOMEONE SANE IN THE WHITE HOUSE AFTER A FOUR YEAR HIATUS. one can always hpe/
snood
 
  1  
Wed 24 Mar, 2021 05:09 pm
@MontereyJack,
MontereyJack wrote:

WELL WE DO HAVE SOMEONE SANE IN THE WHITE HOUSE AFTER A FOUR YEAR HIATUS. one can always hpe/


And I do hold out a little hope that Biden’s administration can get some meaningful work done.

But Walter was saying that maybe the government (these congresspeople and senators - these) might learn lessons that make them better.
I don’t think those individuals learn that way. They’re more concerned with what keeps them in the good graces of their donors.

If we see improvement, it will be something that’s forced on them.
BillW
 
  1  
Wed 24 Mar, 2021 08:04 pm
@snood,
snood wrote:

I don’t think those individuals learn that way. They’re more concerned with what keeps them in the good graces of their donors.

If we see improvement, it will be something that’s forced on them.

Unfortunately, yes!
0 Replies
 
MontereyJack
 
  1  
Wed 24 Mar, 2021 08:28 pm
@oralloy,
oralloy blathers:
Quote:
t hese people would be just as dead if they were killed with knives o


When you come up with a semi-automatic kinife with a 30 knife magazine feed that can point and stab from ten feet awy from the victim at a dafe distance from him for yoou. and work it with a mere flick of the finger, and it becomes the most purchased weapon in the country, then you MIGHT have a case. Until then, you've got bupkus
Borat Sister
 
  2  
Wed 24 Mar, 2021 08:43 pm
@MontereyJack,
With a knife you still have to get up close, as well, unless you have an automatic knife thrower
oralloy
 
  0  
Wed 24 Mar, 2021 10:09 pm
@Borat Sister,
Well, true. But what does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

It's interesting trivia I guess. But people who are murdered with knives are still just as dead as people who are murdered with guns.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Wed 24 Mar, 2021 10:12 pm
@MontereyJack,
MontereyJack wrote:
When you come up with a semi-automatic kinife with a 30 knife magazine feed that can point and stab from ten feet awy from the victim at a dafe distance from him for yoou. and work it with a mere flick of the finger, and it becomes the most purchased weapon in the country, then you MIGHT have a case.

I have a case right now.


MontereyJack wrote:
Until then, you've got bupkus

Wrong. I have the fact that people who are murdered with knives are just as dead as people who are murdered with guns.
oralloy
 
  0  
Wed 24 Mar, 2021 10:42 pm
@Borat Sister,
By the way, MJ already knows this about my arguments because he tangles with me about freedom issues on a daily basis, but since you haven't been active in discussing this, I should probably make clear that my reference to knives really means all other weapons.

They'd be just as dead if they were bludgeoned to death with a baseball bat.

They'd be just as dead if they were deliberately run over with a truck.

They'd be just as dead if they were smothered with a pillow.

They'd be just as dead if poison were slipped into their drinking water.

They'd be just as dead if they were blown up with a stick of dynamite.

Etcetera.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Thu 25 Mar, 2021 12:52 am
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:

MontereyJack wrote:
When you come up with a semi-automatic kinife with a 30 knife magazine feed that can point and stab from ten feet awy from the victim at a dafe distance from him for yoou. and work it with a mere flick of the finger, and it becomes the most purchased weapon in the country, then you MIGHT have a case.

I have a case right now.


MontereyJack wrote:
Until then, you've got bupkus

Wrong. I have the fact that people who are murdered with knives are just as dead as people who are murdered with guns.




You know you can’t make the argument that knives are just as effective as high-powered rifles with large capacity magazines because you know that’s ludicrous, so you just keep repeating a stabbed person is just as dead as a shot person.

This is why it’s stupid to try to reason with you. You don’t make good faith arguments and you drag every discussion down to the brain-dead **** show you like.
Builder
 
  0  
Thu 25 Mar, 2021 12:58 am
@MontereyJack,
Quote:
WELL WE DO HAVE SOMEONE SANE IN THE WHITE HOUSE AFTER A FOUR YEAR HIATUS


Dude, he can't even read an auto-prompt without forgetting what the **** he's talking about. His "party" won't let him speak to the public, or answer questions that aren't scripted with the "press".

MontereyJack
 
  1  
Thu 25 Mar, 2021 01:03 am
@Builder,
got brain fever again, have you?
Builder
 
  0  
Thu 25 Mar, 2021 01:13 am
@MontereyJack,
Please explain why "your" president hasn't done diddly squat in public since the bogus inauguration "ceremony" they filmed in a studio, for fear of the public reaction to the bogus "election" results.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Thu 25 Mar, 2021 02:10 am
@Builder,
Builder wrote:

Quote:
WELL WE DO HAVE SOMEONE SANE IN THE WHITE HOUSE AFTER A FOUR YEAR HIATUS


Dude, he can't even read an auto-prompt without forgetting what the **** he's talking about. His "party" won't let him speak to the public, or answer questions that aren't scripted with the "press".




I would say let’s revisit this after his press conference today and assess how well he did, but we know you will ignore it if he does well and jump on any stutter or mistake.

Trump was a rambling, babbling idiot who lied every time he spoke.

You were fine with four years of that.
oralloy
 
  1  
Thu 25 Mar, 2021 02:25 am
@snood,
snood wrote:
You know you can't make the argument that knives are just as effective as high-powered rifles with large capacity magazines because you know that's ludicrous, so you just keep repeating a stabbed person is just as dead as a shot person.

Well, no. That's not the reason why I keep repeating my argument.

The reason why I keep repeating that argument is because it reliably undermines certain anti-gun arguments.

I have mixed feelings about using the argument because it is mutually exclusive with a different argument that I like even better, but it is a solid argument that is worth using.

Your phrase high-powered rifles is an easy target for nitpicking by the way. But I know what you meant to say so I'll move on.

Free advice: If you have a problem with high capacity magazines, you might find it useful to focuses on high capacity magazines instead of relentlessly focusing on pistol grips, flash suppressors, and adjustable stocks.


snood wrote:
This is why it's stupid to try to reason with you.

No again. The reason why it is stupid for you to try to reason with me is because you are not capable of reasoning with other people.


snood wrote:
You don't make good faith arguments

You can't provide any examples of me ever making a bad faith argument.

I could have nitpicked your phrase "high-powered rifles" in good faith. But if I was was truly arguing in bad faith, I would have taken the opportunity to divert the entire conversation into such nitpicking so that your intended point went entirely unaddressed. Instead I skipped the nitpicking and gave you some free advice about the point that I could see you were trying to make.

Note: Mocking satire (as I have recently posted in a different thread) of really bad arguments doesn't count as a bad faith argument.


snood wrote:
and you drag every discussion down to the brain-dead **** show you like.

I do not share your low opinion of arguments that are based on facts and reality.
0 Replies
 
 

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