12
   

Monitoring Biden and other Contemporary Events

 
 
blatham
 
  -2  
Wed 2 Feb, 2022 10:55 am
@izzythepush,
Thanks
snood
 
  0  
Wed 2 Feb, 2022 11:10 am
@blatham,
Quote:
If Trump were to be indicted and convicted and put in jail, this would have no measurable effect on racism or on voting rights or on the future GOP picks for Supreme Court nominees or on what Murdoch or the Koch crowd are up to.


If Trump were convicted and jailed I don’t believe you or anyone else can predict what kind of effects it could have, simply because it will have been something that no one has ever seen before. This country’s justice system has never been just, and this would be something out of character that will have taken some yet unseen courage and yet unseen will by rich white men against other rich white men.

What do you see as the fundamental difference from the political/media world during Nixon that would preclude Trump from being prosecuted?
izzythepush
 
  0  
Wed 2 Feb, 2022 11:18 am
@blatham,
Mugdock was a typo, I can't change it now. I don't like Murdoch but I don't want to make fun of his name, not like that anyway.

One election the Sun told people to vote Conservative while the Scottish Sun told them to vote for the Scottish Nationalists.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  0  
Wed 2 Feb, 2022 11:32 am
@snood,
Quote:
What do you see as the fundamental difference from the political/media world during Nixon that would preclude Trump from being prosecuted?
Good question. Two elements are, I think, critically important.

First, the development of a sprawling right wing media ecosystem which has trained it's growing audience to reject all other media and to trust only right and far right operations. This has isolated the conservative audience, making it more susceptible to a singular ideology and to disinformation and propaganda. It has also jacked up levels of binary/oppositional notions and, because it pushes emotional appeals over facts and responsible reporting, it has jacked up levels of anger and hatred towards those labelled or deemed "un-American".

Secondly, the change in the GOP itself as the far right has now effectively taken control of the party, gradually removing centrist persons and institutions to the extent that Liz ******* Cheney is held to be a RINO. As many political scientists have observed, in this modern party Reagan could not survive and Eisenhower would be considered something like a socialist.
snood
 
  0  
Wed 2 Feb, 2022 11:53 am
@blatham,
What you describe seems like it gives even more support to the position that Trump going to prison would have significant impact on the zeitgeist. You say it wouldn’t be paradigm-shifting. I think it definitely has potential to be.

Maybe not felt at once, but jailing Trump would change views of what is possible, in the way that electing Obama changed views of what is possible. It changed mine. Trump being elected changed my perspective, as well.

This is of course not to mention the immediate incendiary response from the card-carrying neo-nazis and Bannon-inspired anarchists.

But those are not the people for whom I’d be holding out small hope that the image of the orange pustule in orange jumpsuit might give them pause.

blatham
 
  0  
Wed 2 Feb, 2022 12:09 pm
@snood,
Quote:
What you describe seems like it gives even more support to the position that Trump going to prison would have significant impact on the zeitgeist. You say it wouldn’t be paradigm-shifting. I think it definitely has potential to be.
That is possible. Which is why we all hope it happens.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  -1  
Thu 3 Feb, 2022 05:55 am
The FBI announced that from their investigations they have discovered that the HBCU bomb threats were racially motivated.
Gives you a real secure, warm fuzzy knowing they’re out there scouring the countryside and uncovering stuff like this.

🙄
izzythepush
 
  -2  
Thu 3 Feb, 2022 07:01 am
The Syrian white helmets have just confirmed American special forces killed six children and four women in Atmeh Syria.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  -2  
Thu 3 Feb, 2022 07:44 am
Is there anything blatantly offensive about this statement? :

If an American white man who happened to be Jewish was standing next to an American white man who was not Jewish, and I was asked to discern which one was the Jewish person, chances are I could not do so.

Serious question.

izzythepush
 
  -2  
Thu 3 Feb, 2022 08:02 am
@snood,
There is not, Jewish people from Scandinavia look like other Scandinavians and those from Ethiopia look Ethiopian.

This is the problem the Nazis had initially, their propagnda illustrations of Jews were so extreme that nobody knew anyone who looked like that.

I don't know what Goldberg was thinking, and I'm not going to try justifying anything she said, but speaking as an outsider it's clear that the prejudice Jewish people encounter in America pales to insignificance compared to that endured by African Americans.

This has more to do with the desire of the far right to attack a black woman than deal with the scourge of anti Semitism. Both Lash and Fox News were very quiet about the swastikas displayed by the far right protesters in Charlottesville.

These are the same people who look the other way when people like George Soros are subjected to antisemitic abuse, but react in extreme to the mildest criticism of Israel.
blatham
 
  0  
Thu 3 Feb, 2022 08:31 am
@izzythepush,
Quote:
This has more to do with the desire of the far right to attack a black woman than deal with the scourge of anti Semitism.

Of course it is. That and attacking media which aren't right wing. Plus the common zest to see celebrities brought low. Along with a touch of "flood the zone with ****" distractions.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  0  
Thu 3 Feb, 2022 08:40 am
@snood,
Quote:
The FBI announced that from their investigations they have discovered that the HBCU bomb threats were racially motivated.
Gives you a real secure, warm fuzzy knowing they’re out there scouring the countryside and uncovering stuff like this.

That's a bit unfair, snood. They said they were investigating the threats as “racially or ethnically motivated violent extremism and hate crimes.” If they are to speak publicly, that's exactly what they ought to say.
blatham
 
  0  
Thu 3 Feb, 2022 09:03 am
@snood
Related to our discussion yesterday re Trump receiving justice and how that may or may not change things, Josh Marshall has a piece up this morning which speaks to a point I tried to make. it's here
Quote:
I confess to some feelings of pessimism (something I’m usually characterologically and ideologically opposed to) and drift about the current political moment. But despite the frequent and understandable claims that none of it matters, there’s more going on than people maybe realize with ex-President Trump and the January 6th investigators. Here I don’t mean specifically what the investigators are coming up with — though I think there’s a lot going on there too. I’m talking about Trump’s efforts to manage the Republican response to those findings and its on-going work.

You may have seen that Trump has now called his arch-lackey Lindsey Graham a “RINO” for rejecting Trump’s promise to pardon the insurrectionists if he’s returned to office. Graham’s semi-regular beatings at Trump’s hands are an old story of course. Graham notoriously announced he was done with Trump on the night of January 6th, as senators reassembled in the Capitol, only to become un-done a few days later. But Trump is increasingly demanding that all Republican officeholders become explicitly pro-insurrection rather than just saying it’s time to move on. What Trump wants he usually gets. So I’m not expecting many to openly stand up to him. But to the extent they’re resisting, it is because the insurrection is not popular, and it divides Republicans.

That’s important.

Divisions over Trump’s election-stealing grievances are what helped elect two Democratic senators from Georgia. Those grievances could potentially play a similar role in 2022 and 2024. This is part of why there seems to be more openness among GOP operatives and elites to a different standard-bearer in 2024 — someone like Ron DeSantis.

To be clear, none of this is anti-Trump. DeSantis is clearly positioning himself as Trump’s heir, even if he might have to battle Trump directly to become that. He’s taken on all the positions, the authoritarian tendencies, the trolling politics. But he’s not hung up on re-litigating the 2020 election or defending the insurrection. He is focused on using those lies to make democracy-undermining progress into the future — enacting voting restrictions, laying the groundwork for future election steals as so many other state-level Republicans are. But he’s not putting Republican officials on the spot, making them defend pardons for insurrectionists.

In case there’s any misunderstanding, I’m not expecting or predicting any anti-Trump restoration. It’s Trump’s party now. Or at least it’s Trumpism’s party now. But Trump is focused on himself and his own backward-looking grievances in ways that create problems for other Republicans.
snood
 
  0  
Thu 3 Feb, 2022 10:00 am
@blatham,
blatham wrote:

Quote:
The FBI announced that from their investigations they have discovered that the HBCU bomb threats were racially motivated.
Gives you a real secure, warm fuzzy knowing they’re out there scouring the countryside and uncovering stuff like this.

That's a bit unfair, snood. They said they were investigating the threats as “racially or ethnically motivated violent extremism and hate crimes.” If they are to speak publicly, that's exactly what they ought to say.


FBI doing their jobs exactly correctly; Merrick Garland and the DOJ investigation and prosecutions progressing nicely…

Hell, I worry too much.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  0  
Thu 3 Feb, 2022 10:02 am
@blatham,
blatham wrote:

@snood
Related to our discussion yesterday re Trump receiving justice and how that may or may not change things, Josh Marshall has a piece up this morning which speaks to a point I tried to make. it's here
Quote:
I confess to some feelings of pessimism (something I’m usually characterologically and ideologically opposed to) and drift about the current political moment. But despite the frequent and understandable claims that none of it matters, there’s more going on than people maybe realize with ex-President Trump and the January 6th investigators. Here I don’t mean specifically what the
investigators are coming up with — though I think there’s a lot going on there too. I’m talking about Trump’s efforts to manage the Republican response to those findings and its on-going work.

You may have seen that Trump has now called his arch-lackey Lindsey Graham a “RINO” for rejecting Trump’s promise to pardon the insurrectionists if he’s returned to office. Graham’s semi-regular beatings at Trump’s hands are an old story of course. Graham notoriously announced he was done with Trump on the night of January 6th, as senators reassembled in the Capitol, only to become un-done a few days later. But Trump is increasingly demanding that all Republican officeholders become explicitly pro-insurrection rather than just saying it’s time to move on. What Trump wants he usually gets. So I’m not expecting many to openly stand up to him. But to the extent they’re resisting, it is because the insurrection is not popular, and it divides Republicans.

That’s important.

Divisions over Trump’s election-stealing grievances are what helped elect two Democratic senators from Georgia. Those grievances could potentially play a similar role in 2022 and 2024. This is part of why there seems to be more openness among GOP operatives and elites to a different standard-bearer in 2024 — someone like Ron DeSantis.

To be clear, none of this is anti-Trump. DeSantis is clearly positioning himself as Trump’s heir, even if he might have to battle Trump directly to become that. He’s taken on all the positions, the authoritarian tendencies, the trolling politics. But he’s not hung up on re-litigating the 2020 election or defending the insurrection. He is focused on using those lies to make democracy-undermining progress into the future — enacting voting restrictions, laying the groundwork for future election steals as so many other state-level Republicans are. But he’s not putting Republican officials on the spot, making them defend pardons for insurrectionists.

In case there’s any misunderstanding, I’m not expecting or predicting any anti-Trump restoration. It’s Trump’s party now. Or at least it’s Trumpism’s party now. But Trump is focused on himself and his own backward-looking grievances in ways that create problems for other Republicans.



I read the whole thing but sorry, I still have to ask… What was the point that you were “trying to make” that Marshall made?
blatham
 
  0  
Thu 3 Feb, 2022 10:15 am
@snood,
It's been bolded. Trump will be replaced by others who duplicate what he's done. And the GOP will be happy to go along, just as now.
snood
 
  0  
Thu 3 Feb, 2022 10:52 am
@blatham,
There’s a phenomenon I don’t completely understand, but find fascinating.

There are people who take the position that Trump was something that we’ve seen before. They argue that this foul, gameshow celebrity huckstering, morally bankrupt, white supremacy hugging, traitorous colluding with dictators, trying to overthrow our election… person is not really unprecedented. And they go further to say that in the same way that he doesn’t embody anything we haven’t seen before, we’ll surely see someone else take up where he left off.o

I saw it played out on the “news” panel discussions during Trump’s presidency. There was always someone taking on the role of objective historian saying that there was nothing in the daily scandals and uncovered crimes and indiscretions and constantly being revealed incompetence that we hadn’t seen before.

We’d overcome our past “Trumps”, and we’d surely survive this one.

From where I stand, and relying on my meager, limited experience and knowledge, I sure don’t see it that way.
Before I laid down to sleep on November 8, 2016 I said a prayer asking that God please, please not allow this hellish man to take the reigns of power in our country. I believed then as now that he brought a foulness into federal governance before unseen.

And here’s the thing - there may be others like him that come along, but they did not exist in a vacuum while Trump did his dirt in office. They are “like him” in large part because they craft themselves using the stuff he brought into the body politic.

For all of this is why I think that if our poor justice system doesn’t deal harshly with this man and his accomplices, the wounds he inflicted on the country will be left open and I healed permanently.

But that’s another subject, I suppose.
Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Thu 3 Feb, 2022 11:47 am
@snood,
snood wrote:


For all of this is why I think that if our poor justice system doesn’t deal harshly with this man and his accomplices, the wounds he inflicted on the country will be left open and I healed permanently.

But that’s another subject, I suppose.


Yeah, Snood, it may be another subject. But it is so important that anyone putting it aside is making a huge mistake. I doubt any of the people on (what I conceive of as OUR) side of this issue is putting it aside...or minimizing it in any way. The son-of-a-bitch, Trump, and all of the people who aided him HAVE TO PAY...and pay big time. I want to see prison time.

And if it ends up with just the jerks who kissed his ass and aided him going to prison, there might be a sort of poetic justice served. I might enjoy seeing them pay while the turd gets away with just house arrest...just so I can laugh at the stupidity they showed.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Thu 3 Feb, 2022 01:43 pm
Trump is guilty of enough to be imprisoned for a long time. I doubt if it happens.
0 Replies
 
Region Philbis
 
  1  
Thu 3 Feb, 2022 02:15 pm

enjoy Colbert from the other night...

0 Replies
 
 

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