If you have children would you send them back to school?

agreed; there is much to learn and the trends need to be watched.....But did you examine the chart I linked to ? About three times as many kids are dying from the flu and pneumonia than Covid....

This seem to me (opinion), such an over-reaction to keep the schools closed because of Covid.....Time will tell as may learn from other countries and individual states ,as their numbers develop, which policies may have turned out better than others

Melanie Van Ⓜ
@mvanvol_van
·
10h
I'm in the hospital AGAIN! I was in the covid unit for over a week, got out......NOW I have blood clots in my lungs, legs and arm.

Covid is NOT like the flu!!!!

Taken from a Facebook post:

Given that we have a teacher shortage and the teachers over 50 years old account for about 25% of our current classroom teachers, what will happen should these teachers contract the virus.

Losing 25% of our teachers would leave our education system in shambles. So I am asking which is better. Do we distance learn until we either control the virus or have a vaccine, or do we risk losing our most experienced teachers to prove a moot point?

I agree with Edgar's sentiment... but let's just be honest.

Distance learning is a joke... a fraud.

Kids are not learning through distance learning. Remote learning is something you just throw together. It involves infrastructure and training and retooling curriculums. These are all things we aren't doing and things we simply don't have the resources to do by next year (and even if we did, there would still be kids who learned nothing).

This isn't about covid or "distance learning". The choice is covid or having the kids go another year without really learning anything.

If we are going to ask people to make a choice, we should be honest about what that choice really is.

His criminal friends get out of prison to serve their sentences at home because of the danger of the coronavirus...

...but the kids he wants to go into schools.

Just plain nuts!

Who are you attacking here Frank? If you are aiming at me, you missed.

sounding like a broken record here, but a) the probability of catching Covid is not 100% and the mortality rate is 4 per 1000 at the ages you are talking about IF you get it.....( ages 45-64); not 1000 per 1000

Well Shug, I accept the facts that support your case.

- The probability of catching Covid is not 100%.

- The mortality rate is very low for people who are young and not 100% for people who are older.

- The numbers in Oklahoma are low.

However, these are the facts I think you are ignoring.

- This is a serious disease even if you don't die.

- The hospitalization rates in many places have been high enough to overwhelm the health care system. This is a very bad thing that increases the mortality rate and costs a lot of money.

- There is no real evidence that kids don't spread the disease.

- The numbers in Oklahoma are increasing (in my state they are not), and there are real problems in Texas which is right next door to Oklahoma.

meat to say 4/1000-7/1000 is the range

yes; I don't mean to minimize the seriousness of the disease and we need to be smart .I am trying to avoid left vs right politics.....My point is , just as the MSM blasts out everyday the number of cases, they could just as easily blast out the increasing number and record number of recoveries every day.

Let's hope our leaders are leading us (left or right) based on science and not fear....it's too bad it has become so political.

If i get some time, I'll pick another state and look at their death rates per 1000 per age grouping...If I have to guess, they will be very similar to Oklahoma,

The way to avoid left vs right politics is to listen to the public health experts.

The people who know the science are saying this pandemic is a big deal. They aren't at all minimizing this, nor are they saying that we don't have to worry about young people.

What I hear from just about every scientific expert (with very few exceptions on the internet)... is that we need to shut down states until the numbers are under control. And, only then can we open schools.

I was aiming at Trump...

...and anyone who thinks it is a good idea to send the kids back to school while the pandemic is raging the way it is in this country.

I didn't miss anyone I was aiming at.

I listen to them and I listen to private health experts and I look at what data I can find...There are credible experts that say just the opposite.

Even the data is suspect; I assume you heard about the guy who died in a motorcycle crash that was listed as a Covid death a few days ago ? The hospitals are incentivized to record a death as Covid . If you are hospitalized and get a series of Covid tests, you may/will show up as multiple cases .

The last people I trust to give me information is some 35 year old pundit poly-sci major on Fox news or MSNBC giving me his so called 'expert' opinion. Each channel brings in guests that support their viewpoints..

What I do believe is children do not die and do not seriously get ill from covid. Everything else is speculation and fear

I think you are cherry-picking data, Shug. And I will tell you why I think that....

Cherry-picking means that you are starting with a belief that matches your political viewpoint. Then you are accepting any data the matches your pre-existing belief (no matter who it is from and how relevant it is) and rejecting and facts that challenge your pre-existing belief.

It is a fact that almost every public health official with any credibility is saying that the pandemic must be controlled. This includes people who have differences about the exact extent of a lockdown.

I don't know why you are talking about the motorcycle crash; a single among hundreds of thousands. It is completely irrelevant... the very definition of cherry picking.

I test my own beliefs to make sure I am not falling victim to my own bias. There are some simple question that you should ask yourself.

- Are the vast majority of the experts in agreement? Do they disagree with me? In this case I don't care about what a political science major or TV pundit on any side say. I care about what public health researchers and epidemiologists say.

- Even if I disagree in general, what are the facts being said by the other side? Which ones of them are valid? (If I refuse to accept any of the facts that disagree with me, then I am not really open to any other argument).

- (The most important one is this ). What new evidence would change my mind? I am am claiming to be open-minded... what would cause me to change what I now believe?

If the data really shows that children are very unlikely to get sick AND are unlikely to spread the virus (both of these are important) then I will change my mind about schools.

If the majority of public health experts say that we should open schools without precautions, then I will change my mind about opening schools.

I the majority of public health experts say we can open schools as long as the kids will be sure to follow public distancing rules... then there is problem (that is not in the expertise of public health experts). If schools can't follow these guidelines (which many can't) then the schools should stay closed.

I think the third case is the difficult one... and unfortunately this is the closest to reality.

I think the information given in this Washington Post editorial of last Friday...based on scientific evidence...is worthwhile.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-coronavirus-is-racing-out-of-control-heres-what-we-need-to-do-now/2020/07/17/10c500f0-c857-11ea-b037-f9711f89ee46_story.html?hpid=hp_save-opinions-float-right-4-0_opinion-card-d-right%3Ahomepage%2Fstory-ans

If it is behind a pay-wall, in summary it begins with:

THE UNITED STATES is plunging ever deeper into a public health catastrophe. The coronavirus pandemic is out of control in much of the country. It is time to declare “emergency,” hit the reset button and try once more to get this right. Unfortunately, President Trump has walked away, and the nation is divided and fractious. But the virus cares not. It is relentless and advancing. Either strong action is taken now, or the crisis will become much worse.

(snip)

Warnings are flashing red almost everywhere. Nearly half the states and territories are likely to report more deaths in the next four weeks than in the past four, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said.

(snip)

As Anthony S. Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, told the Atlantic, “We’ve got to almost reset this and say, ‘Okay, let’s stop this nonsense.’ We’ve got to figure out, how can we get control over this now, and, looking forward, how can we make sure that next month, we don’t have another example of California, Texas, Florida and Arizona?”

If you’re going to start talking about criminal friends Max is bound to think you’re talking about him.

The only data I have reported on here is mortality rates by looking at government reported case counts and deaths...nothing more, nothing less...not cherry picked I have made an assertion that Oklahoma mortality rates are representative of other states, something yet to be proven or disproven. It is absolutely a fact that children do not die and probably don't get seriously sick from covid; It is also a fact that if you are in the working aged population, you probably aint gonna die.

I have not said anything about the morbidity of the illness, because there isn't a lot of information out there on it...About the only 'fact' I see readily available is 80% of the people who get Covid show mild to no symptoms but I haven't seen any data beyond that and don't even know it that is true.

I was talking to a friend of mine the other day (uh-oh anecdotal evidence) who works for one of the largest Blue Cross organizations . He was saying their claims have dropped to the basement; people aren't getting their necessary treatments, their routine physicals, the frequency of heart attack victims is way down ( because people aren't seeking treatment) but the intensity of them is way up because they are more severe and complicated now. Even prescription drug utilization is down. These are not good consequences

As far as controlling it, it's probably out of control. You see all the stories about the 20-30 year olds in bars . The homeless probably aren't walking around with their masks on practicing social distancing. The beaches on the coasts probably possibly have spread it and all the flights in and out of Las Vegas ( I lived there two years) probably hasn't helped contain the spread. I was in Branson two weeks ago and there was absolutely zero social distancing in the restaurants or the shows

Are children (people under age 18) really staying home, not interacting with their friends for the last 3 months ? I doubt it.

What do I do ? I keep my head low; practice social distancing, watch the trends in data in my state and county where I live. I drive a little further than I need to to a smaller community where this is less covid exposure and less crowds to do my shopping. If a store requires a mask I wear it; otherwise I don't, I try to be smart about what I am doing it but I am not cowering.

I think the only 'hope' is that a vaccine gets developed, but even then I just saw a survey that 30% of the people wont get it. - who is to say if that 30% is an accurate number - but that is what was reported.

I don't disagree that it would be nice to control it , duh. doesn't take an IQ above 100 to agree with that...so much for the vast majority of experts opinions that the pandemic should be controlled -

It's the mechanism in which one wants to 'control' where the disagreement stems. I will even bet there are some that would be perfectly comfortable with a government mandate that you must get a vaccine (if one ever gets developed.)

I don't know what could change my mind because I don't think you and I disagree on the facts . It's a terrible disease that affects a small portion of the vulnerable population . It can be costly to some but in the vast majority of cases is not particularly serious. It may produce a strain on some of the hospital systems around the country ( I need to see some numbers, not headlines though). Viruses mutate. We may or may not get a vaccine ..

Is there a fact that you think you and I would disagree upon?

Hey Shug, I want to say first of all that I like you. You are someone with whom I can have an intelligent conversation... if I seem cranky, I am that way with everyone. I hope you stick around.

1. The facts are pretty clear to me that kids are far less likely to die or to become seriously ill than adults are. I agree with this important fact.

2. The important question is whether kids spread the disease. From what I read, the preliminary small studies that said "not much" are now being contradicted by larger, more carefully done studies. There is some suggestion in articles I have read that small kids might spread the virus less simply because they don't have very big lungs. This effect would go away by high school.

3. It is very clear that lock downs work. New York had big problems early on. Hospitals were filling and the death rate was increasing exponentially. They have now controlled the pandemic... if you look at the graphs it is remarkable.

This is why the public health officials are yelling at states such as Oklahoma to institute lockdowns before the big problems come. They have already seen what happens when you don't control the virus. If Oklahoma can reach the stage where the virus is controlled without having to go through the crisis experienced by New York, Italy, China, Greece and many other places, it would a very good thing.

and we dont plan wrt scientific contingencies. We seem to be learning entirely new things daily.
Mostly rom news media so Ive listened and took in what our newest member (An actuary) has provided and I find it hard to argue through many of his points.
However, I do wait to se pre pub data or what CDC had said (That apparently will not be afforded us becuase our pres is getting paranoid about his "legacy".

Two pieces of data thi weekend were
1 that kids over 10 have as much "super spreading potential" as do 20 year an higher ages.

2.Weve had an incedence ofI believe 18 kids in one ector hove contracted the disease

3. Newest symptomology includes a form of retinal focal blindness(temporary but indicating posible meningeal infection associated with this whol thing.

What dont know seems to pile up with surprising speed.