If you have children would you send them back to school?

@shug23,

shug23 wrote:

I cannot even imagine the suffering that is going on in Hawaii due to people who have attitudes like yours

You’re not the first to notice the unimaginable suffering Frank inflicts on the people of Hawaii every time he saunters along the promenade in those shorts of his.

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@shug23,

shug23 wrote:

the mortality rate is what it is, by age grouping. That is unlikely to change whether schools open or stay closed. What could happen is more people get exposed sooner than they otherwise would have, but that doesn't affect the mortality rate which is extremely small for most of the population. Healthy adults of school age children don't face a great risk from Covid

What could go wrong is 'at risk' people don't take necessary precautions. What could go right is the poorest people in our country can get back to work; women wont forego mammograms, men wont forego cancer screenings, suicide rates will drop, stress levels will drop and so on.

I am not sure what state you are coming from, but as far as I am concerned Oklahoma and some other states are handling it just right. You have to look at your state leadership who is running your show. I cannot even imagine the suffering that is going on in Hawaii due to people who have attitudes like yours

I come from New Jersey...one of only three states on a downward trend in new cases. We got hit hard in the beginning, because northern New Jersey, where most of our cases hit, actually is a suburb of New York City.

But we have got it under control.

Trump, and the ignorant asses who are his supporters, are more than willing to send kids to school, where they may contract and later transmit the virus to other family members. After all, he has got an election to consider...so children are way back on the list of things to worry about.

Trump has screwed this thing up totally...with he and Pence, his puppet, patting themselves on the back for doing such a great job...which only a moron would think is actually the case. Except that people from around the world pity us, we would be the laughing stock of the planet for the way the Trump administration has dealt with the problem.

Oklahoma, by the way, is on an upward trajectory as far as new cases are concerned. Your people ARE NOT handling it just right.

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@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

It was in the Nat Enquirer to eat lots of pistachios and that will guarantee that you are safe from covid-19.

We must hoard pistachios to keep from experiencing a PISTACHIO GAP

I am a pistachio addict...absolutely love 'em. Got a huge bag for Christmas this year, and after eating about half of them, managed to misplace the goddam thing. Found it in a hidden place about a week ago...but the humidity has turned them into a non-crunchy thing.

I have been told I can reconstitute them in the oven. Gotta try it, but I am suspecting the success is gonna be limited.

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@Frank Apisa,

"Oklahoma, by the way, is on an upward trajectory as far as new cases are concerned. Your people ARE NOT handling it just right"

This is a natural consequence of opening up and getting businesses and people back to work. The overall mortality rate remains at less than .4% (point 4), if you exclude those that died in nursing homes and long term care facilities.

The surge is case count is heavily weighted toward the working aged population . 90 % of the increase in the last month (9000 cases) were attributable to people aged 54 and under and these cases have had 5 deaths so far.

In fact, since this whole pandemic started, we have had one death under age 24 . He or she was in the 15-24 age group and unknown whether he/she had a comorbid condition

The spread of this disease is inevitable; it's just a degree of how fast. Masks don't do squat if not every person washes their hands 100% of the time when they should. Keeping schools closed wont' stop the spread and i don't know that there is evidence from other countries that support the idea that opening up schools has increased the rate of spread. If you know of such a study, provide a link and I will stand corrected

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@shug23,

shug23 wrote:

"Oklahoma, by the way, is on an upward trajectory as far as new cases are concerned. Your people ARE NOT handling it just right"

This is a natural consequence of opening up and getting businesses and people back to work. The overall mortality rate remains at less than .4% (point 4), if you exclude those that died in nursing homes and long term care facilities.

The surge is case count is heavily weighted toward the working aged population . 90 % of the increase in the last month (9000 cases) were attributable to people aged 54 and under and these cases have had 5 deaths so far.

The spread of this disease is inevitable; it's just a degree of how fast. Masks don't do squat if not every person washes their hands 100% of the time when they should.

Like I said...Oklahoma is on an upward trajectory. It is in the fourth worst condition as far as r factor is concerned. New Jersey is the second or third best state in the Union.

Go wash you hands.

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@shug23,

Quote:

I am not sure what state you are coming from, but as far as I am concerned Oklahoma and some other states are handling it just right. You have to look at your state leadership who is running your show.

Oklahoma has been pretty lucky up to this point. With the problems that Texas is having now, I am not sure if Oklahoma will stay that way. I am curious what other states you are talking about (Florida and Georgia are Republican led states that are now having big problems).

At what point would you change your mind?

If the hospitalization rates go up dramatically in Oklahoma (as they have in other states) is there a point where you agree that a lockdown is necesary?

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@Linkat,

Linkat wrote:

Region Philbis wrote:

if we can't get the adults in this country to comply with safety guidelines,
how the eff are we gonna get all the kids on the same page?

Actually kids would more likely follow instructions!

Not from what I've seen.

If they could follow instructions they'd be welcome along with their parents in places they have to go to. Like grocery stores.

You made a comment previously about "with that logic everything except that which is absolutely neccessary should be closed."

Well, yes. That is where my feelings lean.

Far fewer places should be even open, IMO.

Anyway, don't have kids, but if I did, they would not be going to school.

I will admit I don't know how the home schooling system work, but I'm pretty convinced by observing the general population that there are very few parents that are qualified to teach their children, as they are barely functional themselves.

I know it's just one of my wacky crazy ideas, but I don't see how children not going to school for a year is going to permanently impact the rest of their lives.

They'll go back when it's safe, will learn the same amount of stuff that they're never going to need in their adult life, and things will go on.

I believe our priorites should lie in doing everything possible to try to cut the disease off at its knees, and not running around trying to push the envelope.

Going back to school is definately pushing the envelope.

Look at it this way. It seems there's a number of students that upon graduating take a year off before going back to school, or starting a career.

Many children get sick or injured and do not get any education for long periods. Yet, when they get better, they somehow manage to become fully functioning adults.

As far as children not being as susceptible, what are they bringing home to the others in their family?

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@shug23,

and your training and experience is in what area of epidemiology Mr Trump?

transmision of disease (by isolating those most vulnerable) is no way toevaluate how a pndemic spreads. In 1918, the flu first attcked the elderly and then, fter a year with no reasonable expectation of a vaccine, It focused on the YOUNG by cytokine "storms" where the healthies immune systems bcame the vulnerable and almost 50 MILLION people died worldwide.

We hqve abilities to isolate and track these mutation driven infections. By inviting infection of those presently "less vulnerable " could merely be an invitation to cytokine storms on our kids in the winter of 2021 and 2022.
WE AINT THERE YET, so making believe that Ms Devos and your political wishes drive the science is FOLLY. Look how the politicians got it all wrong by opening their economies without strong rules and penalties to the participants. Now weve got a Tazmanian Devil by the tail and our president is just pointing fingers and governors of affected states are looking stupid.

As I said before, were making our kids mere canaries in the coal mine. Right now Im a vulnerable one and I can take care of my family's welfare by masking and isolation. I dont want to see us do something really stupid by playing covid roulette by planless openings. Why not we tough it out for 6 months more with the possibility that a vaccine will be available .
"ABOVE ALL ELSE DO NO HARM"\Know what thats called??

I see how Cuomo is now the "go to guy" to assist other states with the awful lessons that NY learnd the hard way.

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Linkat I hope you come back to read this.

I know your daughter is having a difficult time right now. And I really hope she comes out the other end of this with a joyous life ahead of her.

However, is school the only place she is able to get her social interaction in the physical presence of her peers?

I wouldn’t consider her a child in the way that is spoken as far as not getting COVID. She’s physically an adult.

I wonder what she would do if this was a few years from now, and she was out working, and she couldn’t physically go to work? Would she engage in risky behavior in order to physically be with other people?

I’m wondering what outlets besides school is available where a person could see others. Just not too close.

I am constantly amazed at the technology that today allows people from all over the world come together. It seems you could have a virtual party sitting in you house, and everyone else in theirs.

Just today I was thinking about how compared to today, we were practically hermits back in the 70’s. We had to actually Be Home to talk to someone on the phone. When we walked out the door, we were unmoored until we physically got to another destination.
I wonder how your daughter would have been back then, putting COVID aside.
Probably that she was just as social as anyone else.

Oh. And yes. If people were getting the flu in large numbers, I would definitely keep a kid away from school for as long as it took. Especially today when they could do their schoolwork at home.
I remember how one kid would get sick and by the next week it seemed everyone was a mess. Disgusting. I wouldn’t do that to a kid. Stay home with me and we’ll binge watch something.

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I am a health actuary and understand data ,statistics and mortality and morbidity rates. I am not an epidemiologist. It's interesting that the refutes to my posts seem to offer opinions without backing, or insults, and in some cases , perhaps show a lack of understanding of the numbers , or maybe even just wishful thinking.....

What assurance is there that a vaccine is going to be available in 6 months or a year or ever. There is some cause to believe that antibodies may not offer permanent protection (wear off quickly) hence a vaccine wont be developed. There are some that think the focus needs to be switched over to treatment options. I would defer to someone who has actual expertise on the topic of vaccines.. We still don't have an AIDs vaccine with all the knowledge and technology that we have, so its not a given we will solve this one.

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@shug23,

Does that mean you work for Health and Life Insurance companies?

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not sure what relevance that has, but yes....I am also in the 60-69 age bracket so face a greater risk than most of the population due to age.

On the topic of vaccines, one of the problem I 'hear' they are having is that the vaccines they are working on make people who have comorbid conditions , worse - which represent 80% of the deaths currently. Time will tell

I have already explained the surge in Oklahoma cases...5 deaths out of 9000 is unfortunate but there it is. Businesses are open and people are getting back to work; masks are recommended but not mandated - most people don't wear masks. I drove by a private school playground the other day and 20 kids were laughing and playing together. People are more aware of social distancing and generally try to respect it. There are no concerts or theater shows yet.

Someone asked earlier what would make me change my mind and be in favor of a lockdown . I honestly don't know if I would ever be in favor a another lockdown; I think the disease will run its course, so let's just get it done with instead of dragging it out....I also think 5/9000 extra deaths isn't a particular alarming statistic to society as a whole (although perhaps devastating to the families involved).

1 Reply

From CNN

85 infants under age 1 tested positive for coronavirus in one Texas county
By Faith Karimi and Raja Razek, CNN

Updated 5:36 AM ET, Sat July 18, 2020

2 Replies

@edgarblythe,

Quote:

In a letter to Gov. Greg Abbot, state representatives Sheila Jackson Lee and Joaquin Castro said that
local jurisdictions should be granted the ability to issue stay at home orders to help contain coronavirus
cases.

"Texas is now not where it should be relating to fighting Covid-19. Therefore, your office should take
immediate action to rewind the efforts to reopen the state quickly; which came about by ignoring CDC
guidelines," the letter said. "We need to provide local authority to local counties and cities to do what
is in the best interest of their communities."

(cnn)

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@shug23,

shug23 wrote:

I also think 5/9000 extra deaths isn't a particular alarming statistic to society as a whole (although perhaps devastating to the families involved).

Maybe not an alarming statistic in itself, but consider the costs of a few weeks in the hospital. Most families would be devastated. Don't forget that many survivors end up with life long respiratory issues. It really is a serious disease.

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@edgarblythe,

in the entire United States, there have been 9 deaths under age 1 recorded with covid , 8 deaths between 1-4, and 14 deaths 5-14......Case counts mean squat

https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-COVID-19-Death-Counts-by-Sex-Age-and-S/9bhg-hcku

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@shug23,

They mean squat to you. To me it is an important piece of the epidemic.

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@edgarblythe,

For one, viruses evolve. Why give them kids for a breeding ground?

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I meant squat in terms of setting policy...Obviously you found it alarming that there are 59 cases so I wanted to assure you that this is not going to be a tragedy in all probability.

The problem with raw case counts is they do not give a hint into the degree of illness. There could be no symptoms, or a runny nose for a day or two, or a complete system failure..

My assumption is that given the low death count and mortality rate among children, the symptoms are probably not particularly severe

And of course, any individual death is a tragedy to a specific family; I don't deny that

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@shug23,

I want to assure you that these kinds of numbers can be instrumental in evolving more potent strains. You can confidently say nothing will come of this, but you don't know of a certainty.

1 Reply

If you have children would you send them back to school?

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