27
   

Public school zero tolerance policies.

 
 
Reply Wed 24 Feb, 2010 12:27 pm
A third grader at Mo's school was suspended for bringing a "weapon" to school.

This is the weapon:

http://imgick.oregonlive.com/home/olive-media/lead/img/portland_impact/photo/p5x096-1714-7jpeg-060a54fc3ac16602_large.jpeg

The incident is now part of the kid's permanent record saying he brought a "simulated firearm" to school.

(I know what you're thinking and no, it wasn't really Mo, although it very well could have been since he has a gazillion of these things.)

I remember a story from a few years back where a girl was suspended for "distributing drugs" by giving a friend a Midol.

Should there be zero tolerance rules?

Should it be decided on a case by case basis?

Where do you think the line should be drawn?
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Type: Question • Score: 27 • Views: 13,505 • Replies: 180

 
roger
 
  5  
Reply Wed 24 Feb, 2010 12:34 pm
@boomerang,
Zero tolerance rules are made by cowards so they will never have to stand up for their decisions.

Where should the line be drawn? If it isn't a weapon, isn't intended to make someone think it is a weapon, and doesn't closely enough resemble a weapon to convince anyone with the sense God promised a lug nut, it should be on the safe side of the law.

Your whatever the heck it is doesn't meet the standard
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Feb, 2010 01:03 pm
@roger,
Hear, hear, Roger.

I think that a lawsuit is in order.
maporsche
 
  2  
Reply Wed 24 Feb, 2010 01:06 pm
@JTT,
JTT wrote:
I think that a lawsuit is in order.


...and a new tape measure; jeesh that things rusty.

Very Happy
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Feb, 2010 01:12 pm
@roger,
I agree 100%, roger. It's crazy that this kid was suspended.

I think I reported on here a while back about Mo and some friends getting in a little trouble at school during recess because they were making finger guns and "phew phew phew" sounds. That's probably actually more of a "simulated weapon" than this kid's toy. Thank goodness Mo didn't get suspended!
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Feb, 2010 01:13 pm
@boomerang,
from twitter this morning

hmmm, in the 80's I dressed in camo and took a toy M-16 (this is pre-orange tip) to school for Halloween #notToday
0 Replies
 
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Feb, 2010 01:15 pm
@boomerang,
I can't stand these zero tolerances. I would hope that teachers hired have a degree of intelligence and common sense that there should be zero tolerance for zero tolerances. (heh Heh - made myself laugh)

Please give the teachers some ability to make judgement calls - I can see that weapons and the appearance of weapons should not be allowed. But any buffoon can see that this gun does not look real - I would imagine that a common sense teacher would take this "toy" away and send a note home with the child stating that any type of "weapon" toy is not allowed and if it happens again it will result in ABC.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Feb, 2010 01:42 pm
@Linkat,
Quote:
I would imagine that a common sense teacher would take this "toy" away and send a note home with the child stating that any type of "weapon" toy is not allowed and if it happens again it will result in ABC.


That's a minus 1 zero tolerance, isn't it, Linkat?

These play guns are a part of society. This is really some kind of hypocrisy. As soon as some kid uses their car as a weapon will the schools not allow cars anymore?
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  2  
Reply Wed 24 Feb, 2010 01:47 pm
@boomerang,
boomerang wrote:
Should it be decided on a case by case basis?


I'm not a big fan of the case by case approach. Too many opportunities for administrators to play favourites.

Make sensible rules (ok, no one can agree on those). Apply them consistently.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Feb, 2010 02:06 pm
@ehBeth,
Quote:
I'm not a big fan of the case by case approach. Too many opportunities for administrators to play favourites.


If that's even a remote possibility, those administrators should be weeded out and booted out. These are the people who are supposed to be educating children.
roger
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Feb, 2010 02:26 pm
@JTT,
JTT wrote:

These are the people who are supposed to be educating children.


No there is an idea that seems to have become lost in the shuffle.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  3  
Reply Wed 24 Feb, 2010 02:30 pm
@roger,
Roger, you're making sense. As usual.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Feb, 2010 02:34 pm
@boomerang,
boomerang wrote:
I think I reported on here a while back about Mo and some friends getting in a little trouble at school during recess because they were making finger guns and "phew phew phew" sounds. That's probably actually more of a "simulated weapon" than this kid's toy. Thank goodness Mo didn't get suspended!

I'm not sure if that was an ironic remark, but it shouldn't be: A day or two after I moved to Joisey, a third-grade boy got suspended from his school for pointing a chicken drumstick at his classmate over lunch and making those sounds. You are raising a budding gangster. Be very, very afraid!

PS: I wonder what OmSigDavid thinks about this. Maybe I should invite him?
0 Replies
 
Seed
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Feb, 2010 02:36 pm
@boomerang,
When I was in 5th grade (mind you I graduated from high school in 2001) I was suspended from school for 3 days because the kid beside me (who was also suspended) was making a sword out of tin foil and those wooden ice cream sticks. All I did was put a point on the tip of the tin foil. The teacher sent us to the office and it was a big ordeal.

My parents didn't get mad at me, they thought it was stupid. Before I left the school grounds, I made sure (well my mom made sure) to get all the work I would be missing in those three days and got a mini little vacation.

Even back then they had the zero tolerance rule and it was stupid then, before all the school shootings were going on.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  4  
Reply Wed 24 Feb, 2010 02:43 pm
@JTT,
JTT wrote:

Quote:
I'm not a big fan of the case by case approach. Too many opportunities for administrators to play favourites.


If that's even a remote possibility, those administrators should be weeded out and booted out. These are the people who are supposed to be educating children.


not so much.

Teachers are supposed to be teaching/educating. Administrators are there to try to make things to run smoothly. Teachers haven't been making the big decisions in North American schools for at least three decades.
Seed
 
  2  
Reply Wed 24 Feb, 2010 02:49 pm
@ehBeth,
Quote:
I'm not a big fan of the case by case approach. Too many opportunities for administrators to play favourites.


I like case by case. Though I believe the reason why they don't do the case by case issue is race.

Take the situation that I wrote about in my first post. The kid who was making the "sword" had previously brought a water gun to school and broken it up in his desk. He was suspended for the offense. He was a black kid, and this being his "second offense", he was supposed to be expelled. Since this was my "first offense" I was only supposed to get 3 days. But they couldn't give me 3 days him kicked out of school because they freed the race card would be pulled.
0 Replies
 
sullyfish6
 
  2  
Reply Wed 24 Feb, 2010 03:08 pm
As the wife of a middle school teacher who was attacked and sworn at in the classroom, I support zero tolerance policies. If that little grey gun is brandished around and used as a threat, then it is a weapon.
roger
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Feb, 2010 03:31 pm
@sullyfish6,
He was attacked with a little grey gun?
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Feb, 2010 03:34 pm
@ehBeth,
Not so much what, ehBeth? Not weeded out? I didn't comment on the "sad" situation in the school systems. I said that kids should be taught honesty and fairness and if these "adults" can't devise a level and level headed policy then they should be booted out.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Feb, 2010 03:36 pm
@maporsche,
A third grader, Map, eight years old, ... get a grip. You too, Sully.
 

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