Mississippi lawmakers poised to pass bill removing Confederate emblem from its state flag.

Reply Sun 28 Jun, 2020 03:21 pm
Mississippi lawmakers poised to pass bill removing Confederate emblem from its state flag.

Published: June 28, 2020

JACKSON, Miss. — Mississippi legislators were working Sunday to change the state flag by removing a Confederate battle emblem that’s broadly condemned as racist.

The House passed a bill 91-23 with broad bipartisan support, sending it to the Senate for more debate.

The flag’s supporters resisted efforts to change it for decades, but rapid developments in recent weeks have changed dynamics on this issue in the tradition-bound state.

As protests against racial injustice recently spread across the U.S., including Mississippi, leaders from business, religion, education and sports have spoken forcefully against the state flag. They have urged legislators to ditch the 126-year-old banner for one that better reflects the diversity of a state with a 38% Black population.

The bill being considered Sunday will remove the current flag from state law in the next few days — as soon as the bill is signed by Republican Gov. Tate Reeves, who has said he will do so. A commission would design a new flag that cannot include the Confederate symbol and that must have the words “In God We Trust.”

The state House and Senate met Saturday and took a big step: By two-thirds margins, they suspended legislative deadlines so a flag bill could be filed. Spectators cheered as each chamber voted, and legislators seeking the change embraced each other.

“There are economic issues. There are issues involving football or whatever,” Republican Lt. Gov. Delbert Hosemann said Saturday. “But this vote came from the heart. That makes it so much more important.”

Democratic Sen. David Jordan, who is African American, has pushed for decades to change the flag. He smiled broadly after Saturday’s vote and said, “This is such a metamorphosis.”

Mississippi has the last state flag with the Confederate battle emblem — a red field topped by a blue X with 13 white stars. The flag has been divisive for generations. All of the state’s public universities have stopped flying it, as have a growing number of cities and counties.

White supremacists in the Mississippi Legislature set the state flag design in 1894 during backlash to the political power that African Americans gained after the Civil War.

In 2000, the Mississippi Supreme Court ruled that the flag lacked official status. State laws were updated in 1906, and portions dealing with the flag were not carried forward. Legislators set a flag election in 2001, and voters kept the rebel-themed design.

Former state Rep. Steve Holland was at the Capitol on Sunday urging legislators to change the flag. As a Democratic House member in 2000, Holland served on a commission that held public hearings about the flag. He said Sunday that he and other commissioners received death threats back then.

Holland, who is white, said he voted in the 2001 election to keep the flag but he now sees the rebel symbol as harmful.

“People have changed,” Holland said. “The country’s changed. The world has changed.”

Former Ole Miss basketball player Blake Hinson told his hometown Daytona Beach (Florida) News-Journal that the Mississippi flag played a part in his decision to transfer to Iowa State.

“It was time to go and leave Ole Miss,” Hinson said. “I’m proud not to represent that flag anymore and to not be associated with anything representing the Confederacy.”

Reeves and many other politicians have said people should get to vote on a flag design in another statewide election. The new design — without the Confederate symbol — will be put on the ballot Nov. 3, but it will be the only choice. If a majority voting that day accept the new design, it will become the state flag. If a majority reject it, the commission will design a new flag using the same guidelines.

People wanting to keep the Confederate-themed flag could gather more than 100,000 signatures to put that design up for statewide election. It’s too late to get it on the ballot this November, though, because of timelines set in state law.

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Real Music
Reply Sun 28 Jun, 2020 03:40 pm
Myths about Confederate Monuments.

Published June 19, 2020

0 Replies
Reply Sun 28 Jun, 2020 04:34 pm
@Real Music,
I plead ignorance of what the state flag of Mississippi looked like. I was somewhat taken aback that it contained the Stars and bars. In my head I said to myself that it just can’t still be like that in this day and age. Shows you how naive I was/am. Of course living in southern FL, I should’ve know better.

Real Music
Reply Sun 28 Jun, 2020 04:46 pm
1. That makes two of us.

2. I also didn't know what the Mississippi flag looked like.
0 Replies
Reply Sun 28 Jun, 2020 05:08 pm

Just updating an old flag design.

Nothing to see here.
Not gonna make this the next racially charged issue.

Just too exhausting
Real Music
Reply Sun 28 Jun, 2020 05:30 pm
1. Yes, you are correct.

2. Talking about the issue of racism is quite exhausting.

3. But, an individual or a race of people, being victimize by racism is a lot more exhausting.
Real Music
Reply Sun 28 Jun, 2020 05:49 pm
Mississippi Legislature passes bill to eliminate Confederate symbol
from state flag.

Published: June 28, 2020

Mississippi lawmakers on Sunday voted in favor of removing the Confederate battle emblem from the state flag, a symbol that has flown around the state for more than 120 years.

The State House and Senate approved a suspension of the rules on Saturday, allowing for debate and a vote on the bill. It then passed the House by a vote of 91-23, quickly followed by a 37-14 Senate vote on Sunday.

Speaking before the vote, state Sen. Derrick Simmons urged his colleagues to vote for the “Mississippi of tomorrow.”

“In the name of history I stand for my two sons, who are 1 and 6 years old, who should be educated in schools and be able to frequent businesses and express their black voices in public places that all fly a symbol of love not hate,” he said.

The bill's text calls for the formation of a commission that would be in charge of a flag redesign, one that eliminates the Confederate symbol but keeps the slogan "In God We Trust." A redesign approved by the committee will then be placed on the November ballot.

If the new design fails to be approved by voters in November, the commission will try again for a new flag that will be presented to the legislature during the 2021 session.

Gov. Tate Reeves, who previously expressed resistance to lawmakers changing the flag, said that he would sign the bill if it came across his desk.

"The Legislature has been deadlocked for days as it considers a new state flag,” Reeves said in a tweet Saturday morning. “The argument over the 1894 flag has become as divisive as the flag itself and it’s time to end it. If they send me a bill this weekend, I will sign it.”

Reeves previously said any change to the flag should come through a popular vote rather than the Legislature. He acknowledged in a Facebook post on Thursday, however, that vetoing such legislation would be “pointless.”

The current flag features red, white and blue stripes with the Confederate battle emblem in the corner and was first adopted in February 1894, according to the Mississippi Historical Society.

Other attempts to change the flag have fallen short over the years, including a 2001 public referendum in which Mississippi voters were given a chance to change the flag. The proposal failed as 64 percent voted against a redesign.

Mississippi’s decision to change the 126-year-old flag comes amid a new reckoning on racial inequality in America. Activists have fought in recent weeks to tear down monuments and dedications to historical figures that promoted slavery, such as statues around the country glorifying Confederate war generals.

0 Replies
Reply Sun 28 Jun, 2020 06:10 pm
@Real Music,
2. Talking about the issue of racism is quite exhausting.

No one is talking about it. They are just accusing people of it. There is no debate, just sensationalism and stoking the division and hate for political purposes.
0 Replies
Reply Sun 28 Jun, 2020 06:28 pm
Mississippi should have resisted the progressives and their anti-South bigotry.
0 Replies
Reply Sun 28 Jun, 2020 07:05 pm
@Real Music,
I will say this.

At least taking the action to change the flag is doing something.

It's not the racisim that's exhausting, it's not the taking action that's exhausting.

It's the ******* talking that's exhausting.
It's the trying to patiently listen to for the potential needle in the haystack of something productive, rather than listening to what we have all heard approximately 1,252,832 times this last week.

To be fair, it is also exhausting to hear over and over and over and over again how how ******* stupid people didn't wear a ******* mask or wash their ******* hands, and then, incredibly got sick and spread a disease to others.

I am ******* sick and tired of catering to the lowest common denominator. Like every morning it's a brand new discovery there is racism, or a virus.

Here's my story from the last few days....

Was at the public pool, and a woman and I flared up a conversation. We are about the same age.
She happened to be a member of a prominent African American family in this city, who are very politically active and influencial. When she, early in the conversation said her last name, I recognized it immediately.

The conversation started by her telling me that this particular pool had been built in the 1920's, and that originally it had been segregated. It's a city pool.
She was talking about how, in her childhood, the locals built and opened up a small canteen where people could buy snacks and such.
Then she talked about how the pool became desegregated in the 1960's.

I asked her if when it first opened to both blacks and whites, if there had been any bad feelings in the black community about how suddenly whites could come into a place that essentially "belonged" to the black community.

"oh no." she said, "we just all came here and got along"
Bullshit, I thought.

BTW, let me tell you. This pool is the nicest one I've ever been to in my city. For a lot of reasons. She said it had always been that nice.

Oh yeah whitey, you acted like you couldn't possibly be with the likes of us, but now segregation ends, and you discover we had a nicer place than any of your other places. Just come on in and take over.

On the same topic, she said that very recently it had been brought to the attention of the powers that be that all the other pools in town close at 8pm.
Except this one, which always closed at 7pm.

So in the last few years that was brought up and changed, so it closed at 8pm too.

I asked her "So what was the reason given as to why this pool (with mostly black patrons) closed earlier"
She brushed it off saying "it had always just been that way"

Uh huh. Sure.

But you know what? In my mind, some action was taken and it got fixed. Case closed.

She started talking politics, demonstrations, etc. The ususal.

I asked her, "At the end of the day, everything that is going on right now....give me an example of what is hoped to be accomplished?"

Now, I am so exquisitely aware of how I need to pick each word I said carefully, or it would all blow up in my face. I felt like I had a brake on my brain as I had to navigate in some fragile world to get a single simple idea out. I'm talking to myself saying "chai, don't do this. How can it end well?"

But you know what? I really didn't at that moment understand why I couldn't just say words to her that would have been clear, honest, curious and indicating I wanted to listen and learn.

Anyway her response was, after I had to rephrase twice, "To raise awareness"

Now the following is pretty much the order of the rest of the conversation, without adding or deleting.

Me: Ok. Let's assume that after all these demonstrations, awareness has been raised, in a significant amount of people. What do you want accomplished because of that? By the way, do you think today that everyone is not familiar with what is going on?

Her: I would tell people to write their representative, congressman (etc)

Me: About what?

Her: People need to attend community meetings, get involved

Me: To accomplish what?

Her: Some businesses need to not be patronized. If black people for instance didn't buy a car for 2 years at some particular place, that would get their attention.

Me: What was it that you wanted that business to do?

Her: (getting a little unsettled with me) You just don't understand.

Me: I'm trying to. I keep asking questions, and I haven't heard any answers. For instance, you said back in the day the people wanted a place to buy snacks. You built a canteen.
You found out this pool closed an hour earlier than other pools. You lodged a complaint that you wanted it closed at the same time. It happened.
You want specific things to happen as a result of demonstrations, protests, etc.
What are those things exactly? How are you supposed to get what you want if there are specifics?

Her: I'm tired of your questions (Seriously she said that. Then, realizing what she said, did her best to cover up)

Me: Why are you tired of someone who wants to understand and do something within their power to help, asking what, how, where? Isn't this your opportunity right now to let me know what I can start Doing?
I'm tired too. I'm tired of not being allowed to ask, and tired of seeing people stand around with signs showing how irate they are, but with no solutions being aired.

Actually, the conversation ended pleasantly.
However, I was very aware I had been dealt with in a passive aggressive way.

Yesterday, as I was leaving the pool, I ran into the same woman, who was just arriving. We chatted a bit.
At one point she said something about an everyday matter that I didn't quite understand. So I said "Sorry. I don't understand what that is"

She said "Oh, here we go with the questions again!" We weren't even talking politics. We were talking about dogs.

I asked "So what's wrong with asking questions?"

Her: Oh nothing, just kidding (ok Ms. Passive Aggressive)

Me: I've asked questions my entire life. I'm not going to stop now. I'm a bad ass.

I actually had a long text conversation with a bi-racial friend about that first conversation, asking what I wasn't seeing, where I was stupid or wrong.

It was a long conversation, but I'm going to quote verbatim one of the things she said, and this is not something taken out of context:

"It's gotten to the point that sometimes it feels like the only way anyone is going to feel like the race war is "won" is if white people are punished or made a less than race in society. She would never say that."

Another outright blasphemy I'm going to say is that for a lot of people, and I'm thinking of white people who are young, not all, but many, standing around in the 99 degree heat in the direct sun for hours waving a sign at cars that are sitting at an intersection is just another thing to do in the Summer of 2020.
Coachella isn't happening, the cool restaurants are closed, there's no major league sports. Let's go protest. It's a place to see and be seen.
Twenty years from now, "mom, where did you and dad meet"
At a BLM protest. His mask slipped, but I couldn't turn my head from him"

Bottom line, I'm glad they changed the Mississippi flag.

Let the cruxifiction begin.

Reply Sun 28 Jun, 2020 07:41 pm
You've had a lot better luck than I have had asking those sorts of questions. I just get rudely called a racist if I try to engage in a good-faith conversation about making things better for minorities.

I have a ready solution though to being exhausted by the endless talking. I just declare that their problems are not my problem, and I go on with my life without caring about them. I find that it's really a very effective remedy.
0 Replies
Reply Sun 28 Jun, 2020 08:38 pm
I feel that others problems are my problems if I can be part of the solution.

I think symbolism, raising awareness, when to me at least, you can’t turn your head without being made aware, and not having the ability to express potential solutions, can only go so far.

I can say from my heart I would like all people to be treated with respect and equitably.
So, in my life I put myself out their as that type of person by my actions. By not cheating or taking advantage of others. By considering whose needs are more important at any given moment, and acting accordingly. By surprising someone with a little joy. By calling to someone’s attention that I saw them doing good. Because even though it’s important to do good whether you’re seen or not, it gives others pleasure to realize someone noticed.
By being in a nutshell, as moral as I can.

On the other hand, it also means being willing to call someone on their bullshit, even though it makes you vulnerable.
It’s willing to be brave. Because that equals willing to be vulnerable.

You don’t need to be violent to be brave. You don’t need to wave a sign in the safety of a crowd.

You need, in my opinion to be fearless in the face of being told you don’t understand because you ask questions.
You need to understand that’s the tool of someone who doesn’t know the answer.
Real Music
Reply Sun 28 Jun, 2020 09:17 pm
House approves sweeping police reform package that would ban chokeholds, end qualified immunity after George Floyd death.

Published: June 25, 2020

WASHINGTON – The House passed a sweeping police reform package on Thursday that would end certain legal protections for officers accused of misconduct and ban chokeholds in response to the death of George Floyd, who died after a Minneapolis police officer knelt on his neck for nearly 9 minutes.

The 236-181 vote, largely along party lines, comes one day after Democrats blocked the Senate from moving forward on a competing bill due to arguments the legislation did not go far enough to enacting meaningful changes demanded by protesters in dozens of cities across the country. Three Republicans, Reps. Will Hurd, Brian Fitzpatrick and Fred Upton, joined Democrats in voting in favor of the measure.

1. The House bill, which was crafted by the Congressional Black Caucus, aims to bolster police accountability and end the practice of aggressive officers moving from one department to another by creating a national registry to track those with checkered records.

2. It also would end certain police practices, such as the use of no-knock warrants and chokeholds, which have been under scrutiny after the recent deaths of Black Americans.

Breonna Taylor, a 26-year-old Louisville ER technician, was shot and killed in her Kentucky home March 13 after police used a no-knock warrant to enter her house.

3. The Democrats' bill would also end qualified immunity for police officers, making them personally liable for constitutional violations such as excessive force.

"George Floyd was killed in Minneapolis, Minnesota, and that was the beginning of a new chapter in a long history to transform policing in America," Karen Bass, chair of the Congressional Black Caucus, said on the steps of the U.S. Capitol Thursday morning. "This time hundreds of thousands of people in every state in the Union are marching to make sure that he did not die in vain. His death will not be just another Black man dead at the hands of the police."

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, who joined Bass and fellow Democrats on the steps of the Capitol, said the vote would honor Floyd and ensure his death, and the deaths of other African Americans, were not in vain.

"Americans from every walk of life and corner of the country have been marching, protesting and demanding that this moment of national agony become one of national action," Pelosi said. "Today with the George Floyd Justice in Policing Act, the House is honoring his life and the lives of all killed by police brutality and pledging, never again."

As the House debated the measure, Rep. Ilhan Omar, D-Minn., who represents the district where Floyd died, said those in her home of Minneapolis were "angry" and "tired of being murdered at the hands of police."

"I rise on behalf of George Floyd, who was brutally murdered. And, his brutal murder touched our nation," she said. "I rise because so many can no longer rise. When we build a system that provides equal justice for everyone here in America, we might finally all rise."

Omar has become one of the only members of Congress who has called for even tougher measures to reshape policing through the defund the police movement. While a host of civil and human rights groups back the Democratic legislation, there are some who argue even more is needed.

Philomena Wankenge, a co-founder of the activist group Freedom Fighters D.C., doesn’t think measures in the House or Senate go far enough and says police departments should be disbanded and started over from scratch.

“I want the police defunded,’’ she said. “I want those funds to go our communities. We are owed that.’’

While Democrats had the numbers in the House to easily pass the Justice in Policing Act of 2020, its future remains uncertain as Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell has already said the Republican-controlled chamber would not take up the legislation.

Both chambers will have to negotiate a compromise but some lawmakers have expressed skepticism that Congress will be able to pass police reforms this year after the Senate measure was blocked before debate or talk of changes to the measure could really begin.

Democrats have expressed optimism that the House legislation along with ongoing protests would put pressure on Republicans, forcing them to the negotiating table.

"I think it's a better chance than people think," Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y., told reporters on the chances of passing a police reform bill this Congress after the Senate bill failed Wednesday. "That's our hope, our prayer and what we will work for," Schumer added.

Reply Sun 28 Jun, 2020 09:31 pm
@Real Music,
USA Today wrote:
making them personally liable for constitutional violations such as excessive force.

This statement is factually untrue.

Ending qualified immunity will make cities liable for violations that today go uncompensated.

Police officers will not be personally liable for anything.

And that's a good thing. If police officers faced personal ruin from frivolous lawsuits, we would not have police officers.
0 Replies
Real Music
Reply Sun 28 Jun, 2020 09:37 pm
Des Moines Council Advances Ban on Police Racial Profiling.

Published: June 9, 2020,

DES MOINES, Iowa (AP) — The Des Moines City Council has unanimously advanced a proposal to ban racial profiling by police in the wake of nationwide protests and civil unrest decrying racial injustice.

Of the 45 people who spoke before the council in an online meeting Monday addressing the ban, most said more oversight was needed when racial profiling complaints are lodged against Des Moines police, the Des Moines Register reported.

1. The proposal would ban racial profiling and biased policing. Violations could lead to an officer’s firing.

2. The proposed ordinance defines racial profiling as occurring when an officer’s “motivating factor of the action taken is based on an individual’s race, color, ethnicity, religion or national origin” instead of the person’s behavior or other information “reasonably relied upon” to identify suspects.

3. It would prohibit “discriminatory pre-textual stops,” when an officer stops someone for a minor violation but uses it as an excuse to look for more serious violations.

4. Under the ordinance, officers who witness a colleague racially profiling someone would be required to report it to their supervisors.

5. Those who believe they are victims of racial profiling would have their complaints investigated by the Des Moines Police Department’s Office of Professional Standards.

Outside City Hall during the meeting, demonstrators conducted a sit-in to protest the proposed measure, saying it gives too much power to police to determine what constitutes racial profiling. Many have pushed for the creation of a citizens review board or other forms of community oversight.

“I’m imploring the council to really listen to the people because the people have not been heard,” said Charice Williams, who lives in northeast Des Moines. “When we don’t have accountability — true accountability — it doesn’t make any sense to try to pass an ordinance. Accountability is crucial.”

The proposed ordinance will be back before the council at its June 22 meeting for the second of three readings before it can become law. Councilman Josh Mandelbaum said he expects a community policy review committee to be included in the ordinance when it comes back before the council.

Reply Sun 28 Jun, 2020 10:17 pm
@Real Music,
These action items are good examples of progress.

There’s no “but” in there.

In light of what I said about recognizing an individual when you notice them doing good, I think these items need to be recognized also.

It’s discouraging and counterproductive to hear “yeah well, you did that, but what about....?”

It can’t but make the people who put effort into making this kind of such think “Christ, are you Ever happy with anything?”
Sure it’s simply part of what can be done, but hell it means things are happening.
It feels like many people really just want to express their anger rather than really make things better.
I don’t mean the “Good JOB, Bryttnie!” crap, but a ******* “that’s a good thing done” would be a message we’re on the right track.

Mostly were it stands right now I think all the protesters just want everyone to be miserable.
Real Music
Reply Sun 28 Jun, 2020 11:56 pm
These action items are good examples of progress.

1. That is something that should be recognized and acknowledge.

2. This movement is real and is having a positive and tangible affect.

Mostly were it stands right now I think all the protesters just want everyone to be miserable.

1. The constant, persistent and relentless protesting is the very reason that these positive changes are actually happening.

2. The relentless protesting is probably the single biggest reason we are now seeing these positive changes occurring.

3. Without the relentless protesting, we probably wouldn't be seeing any of these positive changes occurring.
Reply Mon 29 Jun, 2020 12:37 am
@Real Music,
2. This movement is real and is having a positive and tangible affect.

What is positive about burning cities and pulling down statues? There is no positive effect. The tangible results are destruction. What happened to Floyd is an extreme example and extremely uncommon. The data says that.

To blow this out of proportion considering justice has been done and the cops all face charges is just an excuse to destroy this country. It is a Communist takeover, textbook.

0 Replies
Reply Mon 29 Jun, 2020 02:39 am
@Real Music,
Real Music wrote:

1. The constant, persistent and relentless protesting is the very reason that these positive changes are actually happening.

2. The relentless protesting is probably the single biggest reason we are now seeing these positive changes occurring.

3. Without the relentless protesting, we probably wouldn't be seeing any of these positive changes occurring.

You honestly believe that?


So, because George Floyd died tragically, suddenly all these protests have changed the hearts and minds of millions of people?
Oh, excuse me.
Millions of white people.

Millions of people that, on the whole are good decent citizens that were just misguided into what?


The true racists have not been touched by any of this.

Your average white person did not suddenly get all woke a month ago and looked around and think "wow. I should treat everyone the way I would want to be treated"

A big reason, as I said before, so many whites of a particular, precise age range are so annoyingly involved, and acting like anyone who isn't standing by their side with a sign, a mask and a red bull or monster drink, is the enemy. It's because they're bored staying indoors and god forbid reading a book. They now have bragging rights as to how great they are.

They can't answer the specifics of "what do you want?" either. They just know they must feel guilty because they're whitey, because how could they be anything other than evil.

That's like religious people telling atheists they can't have a moral compass because "you're not like us"

True story.
The bi-racial friend I mentioned before? The father of her child is white.
He tried to pressure the kid (teenager) to join him on a weekend protest.
She said no, She had good reasons I won't go into here.
He called her a reverse racist.
Oh hell no. He wanted her to be with him so he could show everyone he has a black daughter.

Great that a flag is going to be changed, racial profiling is in the very beginning stages of its death, and other.
But don't flatter yourself this is because of recent events.

Longer term?
Just like AIDS was ignored as a problem until some powerful peoples kids got AIDS, the worm is turning because a small number really savvy people of color have finally gotten the ear of the old white guys in ties.

What is going on at street level is bread and circuses.

Reply Mon 29 Jun, 2020 03:41 am
So, because George Floyd died tragically, suddenly all these protests have changed the hearts and minds of millions of people?

It seems quite obvious that George Floyd's very public murder and the following protests have raised awareness of the problem of police brutality for millions of people. What's so bizarre or incredible about that?

the worm is turning because a small number really savvy people of color have finally gotten the ear of the old white guys in ties.

Any evidence of that?

What is going on at street level is bread and circuses.

I'm curious. Does that apply to any and all demonstrations, or only to the BLM ones?

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