Will social distancing force commercial airlines to create more elbow and leg room for passengers?

@Linkat,

Of course. But I don't know if polar bears or walruses are also so considered.

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@chai2,

chai2 wrote:

What percentage of business travel could be completely cut out because of technology?

I think this concept of "Gotta do some face time with xyz" needs to be, if not a thing of the past, but mostly replaced with, can't think of the correct term right now....video conferencing type stuff.

There is really something though to meeting in person. Although I do not think it necessarily needs to be as much as it is often done.

I go back to my example of when I had a group that reported to me - they were in Texas I was in Boston. I even hired people via phone interviews (there was a real person locally that also interviewed them ) that reported to me that I never met in person.

We had at least weekly calls via video conferencing and you could tell something was off - often times getting silence from the Texas team and even with video conferencing they would not respond. Those individuals in Texas - only three I had worked with locally before they transferred - all the others I had not met in person.

After I visited in person our relationship changed - they were so much more responsive and realized I wasn't a jerk giving them commands - not that I was always giving them commands on the video or phone, but I just plain old did not get much back from them. After they got to know me personally - it was so much easier to video and talk with them

We are social beasts - so keeping us quarantined is not good for our mental state.

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@Sturgis,

Sturgis wrote:

Unsurprisingly, you do not have any idea what I am saying.

Since you are so intelligent, please explain it to me. The points are

1. Business travel subsidizes pleasure travel. Getting rid of business travel will inevitably raise the cost of pleasure travel.

2. The cost of an airplane ticket has fallen dramatically ( about 40%) in the past 40 years.

3. Airlines are not a very profitable industry. They are for profit companies working in a very competitive market.

4. The trend for cheaper and cheaper seats is being driven by customer demand. Airlines need to cut costs in order to stay profitable at all.

5. More leg room means fewer passengers on a flight which increases the carbon footprint per passenger per flight.

So what are you saying?

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

Less air travel!
Less business travel!

See. Very simple max. Even a worm understands it, so, why not you?

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@Linkat,

Quote:

We are social beasts.

Maybe you are. I am quite comfortable and happy when not having to physically interact with others all the time.

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@Sturgis,

Quote:

Less air travel!
Less business travel!

And you can have that.... if you accept reality; that the cost of air travel will be significantly higher.

If you want
- Less air travel!
- Less business travel!
- Low ticket prices!
- And more leg room!

Then you are being unreasonable.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

Relatively affordable air travel is important to me.

My point is in this list of contradictory demands, trade offs need to be made. You should at least recognize the downsides of the demands you are making.

If airfare that is reasonably priced (and accessible to the average American) isn't important to you, then your demands make sense. You haven't come out and said this.

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@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

There is an easy solution to this.

Fund airline travel with tax revenue.

That way you could not only have more leg room, you could have full meals, champagne and a foot massage on every flight all for the rock bottom fare you want to pay.

That would be interesting to see Democrats argue over whether it's more important to subsidize airline travel or eliminate it because of climate reform.

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@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

I think that they can ffiiciently redesign seating.Maybe seats will be facing each other

they have done this on public transit here. turns out even shrimps like me have no leg room in that configuration . It's like they put in leg room for one instead of two. bizarre.

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@Linkat,

Linkat wrote:

We had at least weekly calls via video conferencing and you could tell something was off - often times getting silence from the Texas team and even with video conferencing they would not respond. Those individuals in Texas - only three I had worked with locally before they transferred - all the others I had not met in person.

After I visited in person our relationship changed - they were so much more responsive and realized I wasn't a jerk giving them commands - not that I was always giving them commands on the video or phone, but I just plain old did not get much back from them. After they got to know me personally - it was so much easier to video and talk with them

We are social beasts - so keeping us quarantined is not good for our mental state.

Oh I didn't say eliminate completely. Just get in in hand.

FYI, I'll tell you exactly what it was between you and the Texans.

Your accent and cadence of speech.

Now, now, don't get all excited or offended. I know you're a super person, and very empathetic.
Keep in mind this is coming from someone born in New Jersey back when the typical accent was much thicker and pronounced. Even though I've managed to get rid of all of the worst parts it, and am completely natural in saying to one person "Y'all want a piece of gum?" The NE inflection will always be there.

You don't know how many people, not just in work situations, have said to me, in effect "You're not at ALL what I thought you'd be like" I just laugh because I know exactly what they mean.

So very much Linkat, those Texans did think you were being "that Yankee" who just thought she could show up and tell us how the cow ate the corn.

After meeting them, they knew you just had some snap in your garters.

1 Reply

@chai2,

chai2 wrote:

What percentage of business travel could be completely cut out because of technology?

I'd be surprised if it wasn't 100%

I have yet to be on a business trip or to hear about a business trip that I didn't think couldn't have been handled by phone/internet.

_)_

Ok I lie. Decades ago I used to go to doctor's meetings with clients and I'd have to write a cheque on the spot to get medical records released. Nowadays you can just do a quick etransfer.

I've facilitated e-payments of over 1 million$ no more need for me to show up with a cheque for $40

1 Reply

@chai2,

chai2 wrote:

If the higher ups would ask the employees what they really wanted, they would most certainly say "add that to my raise"

they do (those great surveys everyone has to complete) and they do and then the bosses always pretend they're surprised. I had to go to some of those higher up meetings as part of succession planning a few times. The excuses they came up with for having those stupid lunches instead of money on a pay cheque were downright ridiculous. I opted out of being on anyone's succession plan after a while. It just pissed me off. I am not good management material. I get pissed off too easily and I don't have a good poker face. Shocked

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@chai2,

chai2 wrote:

FYI, I'll tell you exactly what it was between you and the Texans.

Your accent and cadence of speech.

Actually the people I had the most difficulty with over the video conferencing were not the Texans. One was from NY and I am sure where the other one was from but she definitely was not Texan.

The Texans actually were easy to deal with - they were much more easy going. And now granted I do not have a southern accent - I do not have a strong Boston accent - at least that is what I have been told by people outside the state. Some say they would never guess I was from Boston and others say I can hear it once in while - although I can turn on the accent in a heartbeat if I really want to!

We actually had people working there from all over the country and some from overseas. I think I had two Texans that worked for me - the rest were from Boston, NY, one from overseas, North Dakota and Florida -- weird huh

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@ehBeth,

It CAN be done over a video conference, but it helps tremendously to build relationships. I work in a predominately accounting/regulatory environment so yes my work and communication can all be done with internet/phone calls, etc.

But I now work a client that is a three hour plane ride. We do mostly communicate this way, however, when we were having difficulties with the client - I went to visit as well as a peer of mine. We spent 2 full days with them.

Believe me - meeting them and working directly face to face - having a lunch and dinner - builds relationships and helps in working with them afterwards. They may be still jerks at time - but you "know" them now and they do you -- it is easier to communicate and come up with consensus.

I am not a psychologist but it does really help.

I agree you don't have to do it all the time - once in a while it does help.

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@chai2,

Quote:

BTW real music, what planet are you from that being 6'3" is not considered really tall?

1. My actual height is just (under) 6'3"

2. It's probably around 6ft 2.5 inches.

3. When I say my height is not really tall, I mean that my height is only moderately tall.

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@livinglava,

There is a problem when people want benefits (either to themselves or their causes) without any cost to themselves. People want to make the world better without any real sacrifice on their own part.

Anti-corporatism provides an easy out. We want more leg room without paying any more. Who is going to pay? We'll evil corporations can pay. No one talks about whether this is true or not, or how corporations will deal with the added cost. It is easy answer that requires no thinking about consequences. They can make demands and have someone else make the sacrifice.

I know that someone is really serious about climate change when they agree that gasoline prices should be significantly higher than they are now. If all you want is more service with no cost to you and no responsibility for social or economic consequences, I am not impressed.

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ehbeth, your last 2 points give me hope that I'm not just some crack pot that just want people to sit chained to a desk and fed gruel for lunch.

Exactly.

Surveys? Oy. The only reasons there are so many surveys are that (a) there's a team of people whose job it is to come up with these many times inane questions, where honestly there is no opportunity to express how you really think, and (b) it's justifying other peoples jobs in tracking, monitoring, meeting to discuss implementing some of them (the key word is discuss, nothing gets implemented unless it's the ideas that were already preordained to be accepted)

In a word, it's a racket.

100% agree that I have never business traveled where it wasn't something that could have been handled with a phone call, text, email.

It doesn't stop there. I could write a short book on money being spent for no good reason, and I mean NO good reason on any given day.

I blew my top one day when I realized the amount of overnight charges that my region was spending. Secretaries at clinics would email me reports, then were putting them in Overnight envelopes, like 1 sheet of paper, and overnight them to me for 10am delivery. Insane.

It was thousands of dollars a month. Being spent by people who complained they weren't getting decent raises and were overworked.
Why were they doing this? They were told by their administrators, the bosses, to do so.
That stopped after our next regional meeting.

The thing is, it's at every level, all the way up.
Travel costs are just an easy example everyone can identify with.

Quite frankly, yeah, cut out the business travel, people who are traveling for pleasure can pay more. If they can't afford it then that should be telling them something. Like, you can't afford to do that.

I mean, as crazy an idea as it is, maybe you just shouldn't do that if you can't afford it.

1 Reply

@chai2,

Quote:

Quite frankly, yeah, cut out the business travel, people who are traveling for pleasure can pay more. If they can't afford it then that should be telling them something. Like, you can't afford to do that.

Thank you Chai. This is all I was asking for, someone who would accept both sides of the coin.

We have been using the term "traveling for pleasure" I personally think that traveling is more than "pleasure". It is as much as a spiritual experience as any experience can be.

Travelling is mind opening, it gives you a chance to step out of your own box and experience another culture. I have found that it is impossible to understand your own culture or see the limitations of your own way of thinking without stepping out... traveling is essential for this type of personal growth.

I think it would be a shame if we lost the ability for average people (other than the super rich) to travel. Of course, this is something new.

Through much of human history, traveling to another country was not very common at all for the average working class person. People could spend an entire lifetime living and working and dying in one small area of the country.

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@Linkat,

I don't think anyone is arguing the point that it can be helpful once in a while. It's not an all or nothing.

Many businesses, expecially large ones, spend money on plane fare and travel expenses with the abandon of a 3 year old.

They need to be better stewards of resources, and put much more money where it makes a difference. In employees, and I mean front line employees, not the CEO's pocket.

If the "in the trenches" workers, who pull the bulk of the actual work load, realized how much was being spent on ridiculously needless things, they would all just sit down and cry.

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@Real Music,

Well, I am 5' 1/2" so I guess you would tower over me.

I've never been on a plane, so I wouldn't know about any of these issues. My oldest daughter went on one, she has Chiari malformation and ran into turbulence. Messed her up really bad. Roomier seating wouldn't have helped. But I can see where it would you.

From what I have been seeing on the news and listening to those on the front lines, I think if we had people who really cared about improving our health and planet in charge, our whole way of life would change after this world Pandemic. But we don't.

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Will social distancing force commercial airlines to create more elbow and leg room for passengers?

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