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The Dunning-Kruger effect, sound like someone you know?

 
 
livinglava
 
  0  
Reply Mon 16 Mar, 2020 01:12 pm
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:

Quote:

Basically you just want to go on and on about authoritarian 'we' to propagate socialism/fascism. You basically want to say, "we control the world and you have to submit to us."


Really?? You are on a mind trip arent you? hope you stay well. Im done with trying to make sense out of your world (especially since much of what youve argued about in actual subject matter is underwhelming). If you cannot accept a simple fact that somewhere our scientific fields of endeavor need to be based on minimum competence and such competence is best achieved by hard work, discipline and education , with mentoring thrown in, then youve got a lot more to learn just about learning .

You deny the authoritarian games you play by using things like 'science' and 'education' as weapons.

The simple fact you can't accept is that there are different ways of learning things and that truth is true regardless of how it is learned/discovered.

The reason you can't/won't accept those simple facts is that they are inconvenient to your main priority, which is to plug academic institutions.

When you go online to discuss things, discuss them. Don't turn discussions into advertising space for academia.

Imagine if a teacher went into a classroom and just went on and on about how students can learn things online instead of teaching/discussing content in class. It would be just as irritating and time-wasting, wouldn't it?
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Mon 16 Mar, 2020 01:20 pm
@livinglava,
Perhaps you should find someone who gives a **** about what you have to recite.
0 Replies
 
justafool44
 
  -3  
Reply Tue 4 Aug, 2020 03:57 am
The Dunning-Kruger effect is just as prevalent within the class of people who believe they are superior to everyone else, on account of their umpteen years of heavy indoctrination at Universities.
In fact, they have convinced themselves that they ARE really smarter, and so their opinions are correct therefore anyone who disagrees MUST be wrong. No discussion allowed.
Granted, a university education will help you calculate the exact weight of a nano turd of a baby Klingon squid on the far side of the Galaxy, which is something that we really should be taking seriously. But due to Dark Matter, it often gets overlooked, because 1 kilo of Dark Matter is heavier that all the "not dark matter" in the whole Universe, according to this equation... see wikipedia.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Aug, 2020 04:06 pm
@justafool44,
Dunning and Kruger made a distinction between real experts and non-experts.

A real expert is someone who has spent the time studying a subject in a University or the equivalent, or someone who has real professional experience in a subject.

Dunning and Kruger stated clearly that education matters and that people with an advanced degree know more on the given subject that people who don't.

I won't go see a doctor who hasn't been to medical school nor will I step into an airplane with a pilot that hasn't been through flight school. This anti-education nonsense is the opposite of what Dunning-Kruger are saying.
justafool44
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 5 Aug, 2020 05:25 pm
@maxdancona,
The effect they speak of is just applicable to themselves.
If you don't have much knowledge, but think you are right, well that's bad.
But if you have a knowledge based on fantasy and errors, but believe even more strongly that its real, well, that's even more dangerous.
This is DK for those who have been indoctrinated by the University, a kind of mind and thought manipulation system.

Either way, whether uneducated or with a degree, such people are easy to control, as you are demonstration.
(as you are incapable of non approved thoughts)

I don't say that ALL education is wrong, just the clearly BS stuff.
I would cross a bridge built by a classical Physicist, but I would never go near a bridge designed by a theoretical Physicist or a Einstein believing Physicist, or a Quantum Physicist.
Engineers who build bridges are all Newtonian and that's why Bridges and Planes and rockets and computers work so well.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Aug, 2020 05:53 pm
@justafool44,
If you wanted to gain real expertise in Physics, you would go to a university and take a course in Physics.

The first course, in classical Physics, would conplete change your current understand of physics. I keep telling you that you have a basic misunderstanding of classical Physics. Rather that learn real classical Physics you have kind of invented you own imaginary physics.

The basic point is that if you want to have real expertise, you need to put in the work to study the subject at a university level. If you don't do the work, then all you have is fake expertise.

The fact that you have such high confidence in your fake expertise that you take on Einstien, even though you show a basic inability to understand Newton and Galileo is exactly the point of this thread.
0 Replies
 
Teufel
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Aug, 2020 05:58 pm
@coluber2001,
Dunning - Kruger is oft referred to in our family, seeing as my wife is a Dr of Psychology, our daughter a Dr of Sociology and our son a Dr of Mathematical Physics ... Whilst I am a mere economist, political scientist and business owner.

Another fascinating facet of the masses is that they like to call ideas and indeed people they do not understand ... stupid.

'Experts are idiots! They don't understand the real world!' ... Seems a fairly popular mantra amongst the minions, which highlights their lack of education and IQ ... Thinking they hold some secret which only working class people know.

Sense is most certainly not common and hyper intelligent people do think entirely differently to those of a more mundane, average IQ ... There is other research which shows this .... However the reality is whilst the masses can be told, no one can understand it for them. Therein lies the issue.

When the great unwashed don't 'get it' then it must be someone else who is dumb, LOL, how could it possibly be them ... So, back to Dunning-Kruger again.
justafool44
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 5 Aug, 2020 06:34 pm
@Teufel,

You actually think that ONLY uneducated people are being critical of the mainstream or approved versions of Science?
Think again.
Many fully qualified, UNI educated, experts in their field, with years of experience, are being critical of some of the accepted claims of some branches of Science, in this case, I am addressing modern Physics.

So bang goes your little excuse.

And you also actually think that those critical individuals who don't have degrees, are somehow unable to grasp the often conceptually simplistic hypothesis of the Physicists?

Really, your argument is too generalized to be of any value.

Your whole argument seems to be, "intelligent people can only be found at Universities, and of those, only ones who submit to the approved dogma are to be given a voice. Dissenters are Quacks, their PhD's mean nothing".

Average people have every right to laugh at the "experts" when they make moronic claims.
"we might live in a Universe that is just one of millions of Parallel Universes". "There could be a worm hole connecting theses Universes!"

This is guaranteed to elicit a lot of laughter, because its a moronic statement, of the type ONLY utter-able by a Mathematical Nerd who has no idea about Physics that extend beyond the key pad of his calculator.

Mathematics driven Physics always comes up with moronic claims, because Math cant help explain anything. Least of all form the base of some new hypothesis, yet this is how Math's is used today.
No wonder there is so much about Physics that common people laugh at, (those that are interested) because the conclusions of the Math-Physicist are just too stupid to take serious;y.
And underlying some of the Math driven Physics is nothing less that some ancient religious belief system, involving Numerology, Sacred numbers, and geometry, and Mysticism.
So yes, people with common sense (not all common people!) rightful scoff and laugh out loud when confronted with such nonsense.

maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Aug, 2020 08:01 pm
@justafool44,
There are actually extremely few University trained Physics who reject Newtonian relativity, as you do.

You can always find a few crackpots in any field... Including Trump's recent medical doctor who believes diseases are caused by having dreams sex with demons.

The issue here is that you have almost no expertise. You have trouble understanding basic high school Physics. Even where there is disagreement among the experts, who don't have the basic knowledge to understand what they are talking about.

The real scientists are putting robots on Mars. They all have Phds and and real understanding that you don't have.
justafool44
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 5 Aug, 2020 08:59 pm
@maxdancona,
Max, you have no case about my understanding of Newton and Galileo's Physics.
You are just using that as an excuse to ignore the major errors in Einsteins hypothesis, which you refuse to discuss, you rather just keep insisting that I don't understand simple high school school physics, with is a patently absurd claim to make.
Further, you seem incapable of even explaining exactly which part of Classical Physics you think I just cant grasp.
The real problem is however, nothing to do with my understanding of anything, as my version of Physics is not mine alone. Thousands of others also share this view regarding the validity of Einsteins Relativity, and many have University degrees and years of exposure to academic life, so are they all just too stupid to grasp Galileo's simple explanations about relative motion?

Personally, it would make more sense that you and your Einstein worshiping buddies have simply skipped over the lesson of Galileo and Newton, and jumped into the Math of Einsteins before you took a critical assessment of what Einsteins was trying to claim. So its you who cant grasp fundamental Physics, not me.

As another person said in another forum........

"RE: Einstein’s hypothesis ….that a man on a moving train does NOT KNOW he is moving relative to the earth's surface, and not vice versa?
Who in the world would get on a train, feel himself being accelerated, and then, once a uniform speed has been attained, conclude that the trees, stop signs, houses, etc. are moving past him while he remains completely motionless. Isn't this rather absurd?

Who would ask the conductor if Chicago stops here?

Yet this presumption is the sine qua non of special relativity theory, isn't it?
Einstein himself actually DOES know the guy on the train is the one moving, and USES THAT KNOWLEDGE to explain why a guy who doesn't think he's moving would have a false impression about the “true” state of affairs. (that time dilates etc.)

Why does Einstein insist that the train passenger is an absolute fool, ( and remain that way) and then construct a whole theory of Physics around that fool's mistakes, and ignorance?"


0 Replies
 
 

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