The Nature of Patriotism

About journalists in war, I think Chris Hedges new book may be a definitive one on the subject. I haven't read the book, but have heard him interviewed at length and in depth by a former colleague. They weren't afraid to discuss the psychoses which go with the job. Can't remember the title, but try Amazon.

Tartarin:

"War Is a Force That Gives Us Meaning" by Chris Hedges. I heard him interviewed in September on Freshair with Terri Gross. I highly recommend it.

Lusatian
Good luck to you.

VNN -- He was also interviewed on Talk of the Nation by Neal Conant. They had worked together during the Gulf War -- in situ. You could kind of tell there was a teensy bit of rivalry there but Hedges was extraordinarily candid -- worth listening to. He spoke with the damnedest combination of exhiliration and anguish about beginning to enjoy war, becoming addicted to every aspect of it. I think I heard Terry's interview too, but it was a while back and the TotN interview made a lasting impression. Thanks for the title!!

I posted this on another thread today, but here is where it really fits... http://www.doonesbury.com/strip/dailydose/

I truly hope you can forgive any lack of eloquence, but operational factors dictate that this remain short. I haven't had the chance to read all of the excellent replies that were posted and for that I apologize. I would like to address though, the prevalent theme in the few that I was able to assimilate.
Dlowan and others have brought up the fact that in a democracy the voicing of opinions is a fundamental part of the nature of such a governmental system. I wholeheartedly agree, and though I have difficulties maintaining my authoritarian tendencies in check I do believe in what Churchill said about democracy being the absolute worst form of government ... except for all the other ones in exsistence.
However, I do believe that all freedoms can be abused, freedom of speech and expression are no exception. I have had people curse at us while in training, calling us "babykillers" and the like. I saw a sign that some anti-Iraqi-war demonstrators were carrying that said "We support our troops ... When they shoot their officers."
People come on!
Now you will come back and say that yours is not such an extreme point of view, and I agree, however, all these opinions voiced (sometimes very loudly) against the war, whether you believe it or not has a stinging effect on our morale.
The very fact of the matter is, I do not want to change your minds, but when I hear news stories from preeminent newspapers in the States trumpeting the Iraqi side of things, and websites filled with anti-war sentiment that is only voiced due to the freedom my "babykilling Army" provides, I am filled with saddeness and yes, on my worse days anger.
You all may not believe it, but almost every soldier I know believes that liberalism, both extreme or passive aggressive is fundamentally against almost everything we do. And we are the ones who are tasked to defend you. I do not completely agree with the war myself, but often when I hear such eloquent and sophisticated rhetoric against everything I have trained, volunteered, and worked for I feel sadness and disillusionment. And when I see signs like the one mentioned earlier I sometimes wonder why these people don't take up arms and shoot us themselves, at least then we'd be hit in the face and not in the back.
After all, we're all just a bunch of babykillers.

I believe it. Both sides seem to think the other is responsible for all evil.

Lusatian, I honestly believe that those of us who served in the military know you serve with the highest patriotism in serving our country. When the president orders you to serve in a war, you have no choice but to follow orders. For this, I personally thank you. All my brothers and I served in the US military. Only our older brother served during war time in Korea. War is ugly. Our country should never commit our troops to war unless it is justified politically. In most cases, that means we are justified to go to war in defense of our country. The present war with Iraq creates a dilemma for many, and we have the whole spectrum of opinions as to it's justification. We still have the freedom to argue the rightness or wrongness of this war, and this debate will continue long after this war is over. That doesn't take away from your responsibility to fulfil your duty. Most of us who may be against this war still support our troops - 100 percent. You can be assured of that much. Stay safe. c.i.

Hear! Hear, Lusatian. The anti-war crowd is loud, but they don't represent the majority of Americans. What you are doing is difficult, but plays an important role in securing our freedoms. The Iraqi/radical propaganda machine has portrayed our actions in the worst possible light. Rumors and defeatist opinions have found ready outlet. Some would rather believe the enemy than our own. On these threads is a photo that morphs the President of the United States into Hitler, and no one even turns a hair. That is discouraging to us on the homefront, but the lack of support of the country seldom is extended to the troops.

You are doing great, and your accomplishments set new standards for military excellence. Rest now, if you can. Gather your strength, replenish your stores, and plan the next stages of the campaign. Soon there will probably be a great tank battle before Baghdad, you will emerge victorious. Irregular war, criminal war, is being used to shore up the Ba'ath regime, but that effort is doomed to failure largely because of the training you and your comrads in arms have recieved. There will be trying times, but we have the utmost confidence in you.

God bless America. May the Right prevail.

Asherman,

Lusatian is not anywhere near Iraq.

Lusatian,

Since you are not, any insult directed at you has little to do with anti-war sentiment and a lot to do with stupid generalizing (peace activists lashing out at any military person etc).

Well, I certainly do not believe that any "side" is responsible for all evil - at least only on my very bad days - (and I don't "get" this liberal/conservative thing in the USA very fully, either) but I do observe the (doubtless partly unconscious, generally) selecting out of the other side's most extreme position and running with that as a sort of straw person to hate and revile - and also, in the language of our very thinking, distorting the "reality" of a different position.

An example right here (but I note it everywhere, on both "sides") is your comment, Lusation, that "liberalism, both extreme or passive aggressive is fundamentally against almost everything we do."

By speaking of liberalism as either "extreme" or passive aggressive" you have neatly denied, in your very THINKING - (since our language determines, in large part, what it is even possible to think about) - the possiblity of "liberals" having anything reasonable or meaningful to say or offer, since the only possible positions you give them are negative. You have made them an enemy and only an enemy.

I am very sorry that this way of thinking seems so prevalent on the part of so many - I assume it is people who are perpetrators of a more extreme form of either/or -black/white thinking who have so distressed young people going off into danger by projecting their distresses and hostilities onto them. I can well understand why this is such an emotional thing. I also believe it is a very small number of your "enemy" Lusatian who have been so extreme and insensitive in their demonstrations of their beliefs - or indeed who are opposed to almost everything you do.

People's attitudes to the military are a complex and difficult thing, I think, often. For example, on the one hand to many it represents killing and horror - on the other, it represents safety and security. I hate to speak psychologically, but I think it is not too hard to imagine that some of the things it represents are things we find hard to deal with in ourselves, and hence project our discomfort outwards - onto people such as yourself.

I think it is also reasonable to acknowledge that it is by no means unknown for militaries to be tasked to do - or to do themselves - things that are morally repugnant to most of us. Babies and children and other civilians in Irag WILL be killed - or subjected to pain and suffering - I do not think this is deniable. It is the nature of war. Babies and children and others suffer in a lot of other circumstances, too - like in ordinary life on a goodly part of our planet.

Many do not believe that, on this occasion, the military IS being used to defend our soft, weak, ungrateful bodies - but that it is being used to farther less noble aims.

I know that your beliefs are different from mine - and I respect yours and wish you only the best, as I have said before.

Sadly, I have met more than my fair share of baby-killers - they are sad, damaged creatures - I know you are not such - and I hope that your job does not force you to do such a thing long-distance and without intent.


Sorry - this turned into some sort of an old testament or something!

Grrrrr - how come Craven always says so briefly what it takes me so long to say!

Asherman - bless you - but I am sure Lusatian knows enough to rest and plan when he needs to!

I don't consider the soldiers to be baby killers. But I DO consider the politicians who are giving the orders to be so.

There's something else I want to add. Look at my avatar and see that little girl in my arms. If she was to be hurt by a foreign invader, then I would be an enemy of that nation for life. There would be NO action that I would consider to be too evil to commit against the perpetrators. The US prisoners in Iraq are far better off than any prisoner that I got hold of from a nation who hurt my little angel.

Wilso
I feel the same way. My son may not be so little anymore, but he'll always be my little boy and god help anyone who harms him.

That's why I think this war will go on for generations.

I know :-(

It's interesting to realize that this war won't end for a long, long time, that we will all be combatants at one level or another, and that we will be leaving the bloody legacy to our kids and their kids. If that ain't evil, I don't know what is. And if Bush & Co, aren't "evildoers," then I clearly need a new moral compass!

dlowan

You might have taken a while, but it was a pleasure the whole trip. I only had to go to the bathroom once during.

Re 'liberal'...the word has been quite purposefully redefined in American culture over the last two decades or so. Somewhere here there is a thread on the matter, with explicit admissions by members of the neocon crowd (Kristol, etc) regarding the uses of this particular redefining. Gary Trudeau was one of the first to pick up on this, and did some very bright and funny Doonesbury cartoons on it. The surprise, to me, is how many folks apparently need such a simplistic dichotomization of the world - that's a bit unsettling.

Hmmm - I shall look for it - the effect is quite striking from the outside.

Tartarin
I hear that!

By the way, I love your new avatar.