May-December Romances

You know - an old friend just stopped by here at work. This thread came up in conversation. I wanted her opinion since she has a 14 year old daughter, and she has done an absolutely wonderful job raising her and another daughter, 22.

Her comment was:

"Why doesn't Sanctuary's mother already know about this young man? If her mom was involved in her life she would already know about him. How much help could she be if she isn't interested enough to know what's going on?"

She went on to say she regulary check the archives of her 14 year olds instant messaging. Hey, it's a mothers job to be crafty.

I think perhaps Sanc's replay of her trying to talk to her mom over the game boy is very telling.

Mom does not want to know. It would mean she would have to act like a mother.

I would try to talk to my mother, and she would say "I don't have time" I'd say, "well, can we make an appointment so we can talk about this?"

Her response - "Don't be smart"

When I was a "real" adult, (27) I went through a devestating breakup. Oh the pain, the pain, it was horrible..
I called my mother in tears to put my head on her shoulder and be comforted.
After pouring my heart out to her, her response - "So, what do you want me to do about it"?

You know, at one point in my life I went to a pychologist because of panic attacks - after a year I was referred to a phychiatrist so I could get medication.
In the brief time I met with the phychiatrist, she got my family history, I told her I felt really strange because my father had died at least 5 years before (see, I can't even remember) and I never felt a moment of grief. Also, my mother was dying at the time, and it in no way was effecting me. I said I didn't feel numb, just couldn't manufacture the feelings that the world was telling me I should be feeling.

The phychiatrist told me I'd be surprised how many people feign grief because that's what they are "supposed" to show to the world.
According to her many people are just showing the appropritate response they are expected to show to society.

So, I just don't know, Just because someone gave birth to you doesn't necessarily mean they put anything into the job.
If I listened to what my parents wanted me to do and be, I'd be living in NJ with a god awful accent, working as a checkout girl at a supermarket, weigh 350 pounds like my older sister who was the "good" daughter and be married to some slob that belched and farted on the couch.
I'm not at all kidding - that would have been the story they'd have written, and thought it was great.

So Shewolf, I VERY much respect your advice about telling the parents. That is, if they are the type of parents that give more than a superficial thought to the fact they are supposed to be raising a responsible member of society.

Everyone has a dark corner, the trick is not to live your life in it.

Yes, and no one can make your mistakes for you.
Very, very true.

Yeah, and even though I said this thing might be kind of okay in a Romeo & Juliet sort of way, lets not forget how that story ended.

It seems so romantic when wonderfully written. But somehow real life rarely plays out that wonderfully.

I'm think I'm pretty liberal, but this thread is causing me to examine my feelings on these issues.

Bottom line: Until my daughter was 18, I wouldn't want her dating anyone over 20. Just too many changes happen in those years.

Too unbalanced. Too much of an accident waiting to happen.

Funny, when she turns 18, suddenly I don't have a problem with her dating someone up to age 30 or so. Even if its my daughter.

Funny, no?

Well EM, that's what I've been trying to battle against...my age. If the age of consent is 18 in most states, then that means that 18 year olds are intelligent enough to know right from wrong (I'm sure that if the age of consent had always been 21, then that would be the age of responsibility); but here the age of consent is indeed 16, and so I am awfully confused when my state says that I can make my own decisions and be a big girl, yet cross the state border and all of a sudden I'm an irresponsible child.

I understand consent laws. When a 14 year old is being abused by her 19 year old boyfriend, then it's understandable that someone would want to press charges. If a 16 year old is with a 22 year old who is controlling and manipulative, has made her quit school and gotten her pregnant, then I can see why someone would want to press charges. But when a 16 year old is with someone over the age of 18, and is perfectly happy with that person, I am clueless as to why there is such opposition other than stereotypical bias. Now EM, I respect you very much and enjoy your posts thoroughly, especially when they're about shiny objects, but I do think that the reasoning behind your opinion is a bit off, simply for this reason: It's September 26. The day before my birthday. I'm 17. I can't do ****. I can't go out with this guy, I can't cross the road without looking both ways, I can't go out partying. But after those simple little 24 hours pass, then I am free to GO! Yes! And that is the exact same thing my mother tells me. "When you're 18, then I couldn't care less what you do with your life. But until then, my house, my rules."

Why would my level of personal responsibility and grace be judged on an age, when more important factors - such as intelligence, maturity, independence, etc - play an even more effecient factor? What I typed all that out to say is this: I could be ready to handle this relationship right now, but I wouldn't allowed to until I'm 18. Yet I could also be 18, addicted to heroin, an alcoholic, with two kids, and it would be perfectly fine by your standards, because by 18, I would be smart enough to live my life like I want.

Do you see what I am saying? I am not asking to take on the world, nor am I wanting to do anything risky. The only negative thing about this entire relationship has nothing to do with fact, but assumptions of the public. So he's older than me by a long-shot. Does this make him abusive? No. Does this make him a pedophile? No. Does this make us distant? No. Does this mean I'm making up for the loss of my childhood by trying to bring in an older figure, so on and so forth? No. But everyone assumes that it does, just because he is older. And this makes no sense to me, because I know better. I know him.

I am in no danger. But because of my age, no one sees it (excluding a select few) that way. I am admitedly lacking experience. But I assure you that I will not gain any knowledge of how to handle myself and my life if I just sit on my couch all day eating Funyuns and straightening out the drink coasters on the coffee table. In order to experience, one has to learn. And in order to learn, you've gotta do something. Let me learn, let me be with him. If I get hurt, then like I've been saying this entire time, I will be able to handle it, and you can gladly come to me and say "I told you so." But until then, base your opposition against his character, that of which you don't know, and mine - not our ages. Because then..no. No, I won't listen to any advice given based simply off our age. It is irrelevant to me. Perhaps that is why have thusfar refused to tell my mother. I know she will base her reaction upon age, not me or him as people.

Chai,

No, she flat out has told me before that she doesn't care.

I too lost my dad, about 4, 5 years ago. We weren't close, seeing as I only saw him about once a month. I sometimes mourn the loss of what could have been, but when I cried after his death, I can't honestly say it was out of sincerity rather than expectations. I understand what you say.

I feel it'll be the same with my mother. We're just not close. She makes up for what she lacks in emotional abilities with going into debt with buying my crap I don't even ask for. I'm thankful, but it doesn't make us closer. I wish she could understand that. My siblings all understand what I'm going through; they had to move out and live with their father when they were growing up due to issues with my mother and communication.

I also found out that Oklahoma has no Emancipation laws. So I am pretty much stuck. This makes me weigh whether or not to tell her more carefully. Because, like you said, just because someone gave birth to you doesn't mean you would willingly incorporate them into your lives if a blood-relation had never been formed. I feel that way with my mother. We're room mates, not mother-daughter, not friend-friend. Just roommates. It's 5 words to eachother when she gets home from work and then she's off to the computer and I head on up to my room. We disagree on everything, though I refuse to fight with her anymore. She won't tell me about work unless she needs to complain, and in order for me to get something through to her, I have to say it three or four different times - she doesn't listen otherwise. So I step back and consider this relationship with her, and I ask myself "do I really want to take the risk of someone I really am not close with, I really do not trust (or vice versa), taking away one of the greatest things in my life, simply because they do not like it? Do I really want to give her that power, when she could care less otherwise?" This is what keeps my mouth shut. Is it worth the risk to follow society's standards of what a teenager is supposed to tell her mother despite the circumstances, or do I follow my heart and instinct and keep it hush-hush until I am out of the house and control my own life, so that there's no risk in losing the one person who does talk to me?

Sanctuary,

Excellent answer. I won't argue with it.

My question is: Why post here about it, if your mind is totally made up already?

It seems you don't want to consider anyone's views that don't totally agree with yours.

Did you really want to debate this, or did you want to post a "Please /Sisters, Support Me and Write Me Messages of Support" Thread?

I originally wanted opinions in general about May-December relationships, and used my own situation as an example. It turned into an advice thread. I do need the advice, because it has made me consider a lot and think about a lot. But simply because I've wound up at the same spot that I was before doesn't mean that it was all pointless. It simply means that I need to trust my instinct more, and never put personal experiences into question when posting a thread on A2K :wink:

hmm

print out the previos post and put it on the table.

your words are wonderful Sanctuary

Sanctuary, this whole thing is tricky to respond to because there are so many different elements. For example, you asked; "For the parents out there: how would you react if your daughter (or son) brought home someone who you truly did enjoy and knew you could trust, but then wound up finding out that s/he was much older than your child?"

This is what a lot of us were responding to -- it is quite different from, "Do you think I should tell my emotionally absent mother." I think my answer would be the same each way -- yes she should be told/ yes I would want to know -- but it shapes the kind of response you get.

I understand what you're saying about the eve of your 17th birthday -- when I was 9 or so, I started a kid's rights group because I thought that kids were unfairly discriminated against for these kinds of reasons.

The fact remains that, aside from your own situation, there are reasons for these laws. Some I agree with, some I don't -- I don't think the drinking age should be higher than the voting age, for example -- but one I have no problem with is the age of consent. I agree that it should be more universal than it is, and I'm not sure whether I'd prefer that it be 16 or 18. But I think it should be there.

We agree that a 25 year old and a 9 year old should not be in a romantic/sexual relationship, right? We agree that two 25 year olds should be able to be in a romantic/ sexual relationship, right? Once those no-brainers are dispatched with, what then? Where is the line drawn? If there is no line, how are the truly predatory and damaging relationships separated from the ones that are just fine? Each couple approaches a judge and explains their relationship in detail, maybe some video clips, and the judge decides for each individual case? What if it is a case where a 9-year-old is completely intimidated by a 25-year-old and goes ahead with whatever she is told to do, managing to convince the judge in the case that she's perfectly happy and in love?

I'm not saying that you can't rail against it, sure. But it's also not as simple as us saying "Oh, well if you think you can handle it, go for it." I'm sure there are 9-year-olds who think they can handle it. It's simply not a very convincing standard.

Again, you may well be able to handle it. That's not my overriding point, whether you can or can't. More, it's eminently reasonable that people would react badly to this, and you haven't really supplied much beyond "trust me."

I can certainly imagine a situation in which a 16-year-old and a twentysomething would find true love -- or lust, or whatever. But there are so many aspects of your situation that make me nervous. You have no trustworthy adults in your life (do you?) -- it makes sense that you would go looking for one, but is not a healthy dynamic for a romantic relationship.

If someone asked me, "Do you think I should take off all of my clothes and roll around in a patch of poison ivy for a while," my answer would be no. Not because it's always awful, but because the chances of it being awful are pretty darn high.

By the way, you haven't answered my question about how you met him -- I know you've gotten a lot of questions and have said a lot, so not sure if that was avoidance or you just didn't get around to it. Your answer has a lot to do with what I personally think about this situation. (And what I personally think ultimately, of course, means not a whit -- but you asked. :-))

I never saw the question before, I apologize.

We met among a group of friends, pretty typical I suppose. Friends brought their friends and I brought mine and we met up and had some pretty deep conversations with eachother (as a group); he stood out to me and I to him. We hit it off for about four months before he admited to me his age, though he always knew mine (he was afraid it'd run me off, I suppose). We waited until this past year to get actually involved with eachother, like I said before.

OK, that's much better than some sort of teacher/student kind of thing.

Curious why you haven't just said how old he is?

"Hi, I'm a 28 year-old guy and I am having a relationship with a 16 year old girl. Does everyone think this is great and and a good idea and quite fine? Please advise."

Why do I think that guy above would get attacked on A2K? Yet the girl is pretty much supported in this?

Ladies, do you disagree with me?

Would you write glowing letters of support for the guy above? How about if he was 38? 48? 58?

Why, oh, there is some magic number that you disapprove of? Do you engage in age discrimmination after all?

:wink: (All said with a wink folks, relax--this is Debate!) Lets Debate then! Do you support the 28 year old guy? Come on now, lets not just support the 16 year old girl, and not the guy!

(And this is just an example, not necessarily Sanctuary's case, as I don't believe she said exactly how old he is).

Do you support the 28 year old guy in the case above?

(Didja read my long post above, EM?)

Well, if the advice followed what is here, the words to the guy would be along the lines of:
"well, it may not be the best, but if you really love her, awww go ahead."

(Guess not. :-))

Yes. I see your points.

I guess I was just trying to get at how our society has double-standards.

Your points are great actually.

Its such a gray issue.

_____

Then on top of everything, Sanctuary's writing seems to have the maturity equal to a lot of 25 year olds.

Why you make things so complicated by being so mature for your age, Sanctuary? You are mature for your age, I do know that. I think in your case you'll probably be fine. Just keep your eyes open, even mature people can get hurt more than they ever imagine; and I'll say for the 100th time, don't get PG.

Fer sure.

Like those phantoms in the shadowed mists that you try to grab and they just slip away like a shooting star.

Hey, EM, I totally agree with the Double-standard. And the whole "mature for your age" thing... I disagree. I think I'm average, very naive and in need of a reality check a lot of times. But then again, I don't see myself the way others see me. I do not attempt to come off as mature..I guess that avoiding saying things like "Oh my God, I can't believe I'm missing the OC," or "I am sooo over on my Cingular minutes," excludes me from some teenagers.

Soz, I don't want to say on his behalf. I started this on my own accord, and while I think it's probably too late by now, I don't want to invade his privacy too much.

I got a laugh out of what the guy had told my mum about me - about the age thing and he also said the following (which I also don't belive until I've seen it become true)

- I will marry a rich guy (yeah yeah )
- I will sit three very high diplomatic positions (now that I would LOVE)
- And I myself will be able to make a successful life and living
- Two children - one boy one girl will be enough for me.

As I said, I laughed like mad. But I don't believe a word.

Generally, I belive that one can change their own future. So bullocks from me to all the future telling out there.

I think you are short changing yourself. You might not have the experiences but you have a good head on your shoulders and are wise beyond your years. We all need a reality check every now and then, no matter what our age.

I apologize if in my posts I've been treating you like a child. I tend to get protective and "motherly" over people here sometimes....a habit which is often not accepted as such since it comes off as sort of nasty.

Like the time you tried to breastfeed me because i was CRYING?~
( freak )

sorry... had to joke...

But EM brings a good point.
Change the person in this thread to a male, and we would be SMASHING him to shards. He would be labled a child predator as delicatly as possible.
The double standard IS there and it IS one sided.
Indeed, Sanc is quite a diffrent teenager then most people are used to. Usually, a thread with the question she has posed, started by most OTHER teenagers would read something like :

Yes, he is older, but my parents cant tell me what to do. They dont know sh*t. I hate them. They try to rule me , blah blah blah.....

Instead her thread / question when asked HER goals about telling her parents is :



Completely diffrent stand point!
So now we throw in alot of 'grey area' factors.
So, as Em said...

what if it were a boy? 25-27 ?