May-December Romances

Maybe I'm superstitious and believe too much in fortune telling which is why I remember the following informations:

1) an age gap of 8 years btwn the guy and the girl (the girl being the younger) is supposed to be good luck

2) and I'm supposed to be with a guy who is only 2-3 years older than me. Which I don't believe. Not now anyway.

Of course, to each their own. If you feel that you could be with a guy who is much older than you and you do love him, go for it.

But thats just my inexperienced point of view.

Don't mean to be controversial, but I wanted to ask a couple of questions to those who are warning Sanctuary against this relationship.

Aside from getting pregnant (I'm sure we all strongly advice against that), what are the negative outcomes for Sanctuary in this? I'm sure she may well get hurt (for what it's worth I suspect she will), but that's a risk in all relationships, regardless of age.

Like you EM, I find the idea strange and slightly disturbing, and I tend not to respect guys that go out with teenagers.

But that said, if the harm Sanctuary might suffer is a broken heart, well, I can't say that I'll never risk getting my heart broken ever again. Anyone in a relationship risks that. If the dangers are specific to relationships with these kind of age gaps, perhaps we should highlight some particular warning signs that Sanctuary could look out for. ehBeth, what 'bad things' should Sanctuary watch out for?

You have your points, D.

I said my piece.

Having said that, on the other hand, I do realize love is love and life is short, nothing is promised.

Weren't Romeo & Juliet about 16 or so? Well Romeo might have been 18 or so.

Anyway, yes, nothing wrong I suppose if its love--better to have love and lost and all that.

I'd just say: proceed with caution. Keep your eyes open, and be prepared with support group should something happen.

Do not get pregnant though, please. At least for 5 years?

Aw, why am I bothering to type all this?

If I was 16 would I listen to this? Probably not...

Well, maybe you can use all this information not now at the moment, but in 6 months or 2 years from now. Keep it and file it away in the back of your mind.

Thats what happened to me a lot: I didn't take advice people would give me at the time, so I'd get hurt and what not, but then when I was down, somehow I could still pull that advice out and use it, even though it was sort of a little too late.

Perhaps read all this--people are giving you great advice. Then do what you're going to do anyway. Then if bad things happen, you can have this wisdom people are writing here to help guide you.

Good luck.

How do you feel about tarot cards, fortune tellers, and crystal balls to predict your relationships?

Not being sarcastic, just truly wondering?

Sanctuary,

You are being indulged.

This is a philosophy forum after all.We have allowed you to get a few things off your chest and be the centre of attention but we are in danger of making the same mistakes your parents have self-evidently made.

As philosophers,even amateur ones,we do not give a pimple on a gnat's earhole for your predicament whatever the reason you have for being in it.There are,I gather,some 7 billion people on this earth and they are all as important as you.Some of them,a much larger number than we are comfortable with,have no proper drinking water and little food and are dying in painful conditions without the benefit of either comfort or pain relief.Philosophers are concerned about that.Billions are living in conditions you can't even get your narcissistic head around.

You have obviously not had a proper upbringing and all your problems stem from that as they do for large numbers of spoiled brats in our rich countries.It has already become quite clear that you are not going to take any advice offered you by more experienced ladies who have a much better understanding of men than you have.You are just using their natural goodness in order to spend time talking about yourself.It is pathetic.
Take your problems to your local Agony Aunt or a priest or a sympathetic neighbour.They are of no interest to philosophers.They are a mere incident.

You did question at the outset whether a philosophy forum was the place to continue with your tantrum and you were right to do so.So take it to where it belongs.You are insulting our intelligence as you seemingly have been brought up to insult everybody else's you have any contact with.You are trying my patience at least.You just want to be the main character in a drama of your own making.No proper philosopher would have the arrogance to offer you advice because he wouldn't have a clue how it would turn out.You could throw the ignorant bozo over,join the choir at your local church and then get run over by a bus on your way to practice.Who knows?Philosophers deal with trends not incidents.

I wish you luck.Read Madame Bovary.Get your homework done.And get some bloody humility.

Spend, if all 7 billion of those people made threads asking for advice then they'd each get the same response. So in that case, please take your complains elsewhere; it has been up to you to click the title of this thread repeatedly and type out responses, no one twisted your hand to "focus attention" on me. And I know how horrible the idea seems that I just may not be out for attention, but rather initially looking for opinions (which shifted itself to a self-help thread), but please give the thought a go.

To everyone else, thanks. I won't get pregnant, if my heart is broken then like I said, I'll suffer the same as I have before and the same as I will in the future. If I do not fall to my feet then how will I ever gain that experience that you all speak of? I'll take what you've all said into consideration, though I will ultimately decide on my own.

I do apologize to people like Spend who can't be bothered. Yet somehow managed to be.

Let's just quitely let this thread sink away... shhhh...

Sorry, can't resist -That is the best come back I've heard in a long time.

ps I don't know how the pm's work, but if you want, go ahead and pm me.

Ok, not to throw another log onto the fire here..
(but damn if that isnt what I am doing )
I know several couples who have 7-12 years diffrence between them. 6 of them are married and 3 of them met when one was a teenager the other in thier early 20s. Those 3 are part of the 6 married couples I know..
Relationships survive age range. Not all. but some do.
And even if Sanc's doesnt, TRULY what harm can come from it? He obviously isnt abusive, isnt a child predator ( or he would be with someone much younger) ........ he has been in front of her parents and has been accepted by her family, friends etc..
I dont hear/read/see any red flags..
So why is it hard for you Sanc, to burst that lie bubble and just say
" Hey , mom, dad, I have lied. We need to talk. "
If you start your conversation with the HARDEST piece of information you have to give them, the rest is easy. :-) ?

Sanctuary,

having said my warnings, I find myself giggling everytime i read this thread, because i was so much the 16 year old woman you are now. you are however more mature than i was, but i was just as stubborn.

i find myself torn on the telling your parents issue that shewolf and chai tea have suggested. After reading that you have been contemplating emancipation since age 11, i have to wonder why? is it possible that you have had to grow up faster than most because maybe your parents weren't the best or for some other reason? if that is the case and you truly believe that they do not have your best interests in mind, maybe telling them will only make things worse for you (just a thought). However, if they have been truly thinking of you first, then i agree with shewolf and think you should tell them. would it be possible for you discuss why you have been wanting emancipation-that may shed a lot of light on the situation as a whole.

i am somewhat jaded about age difference relationships since as i posted before i watched a young lady in a 7 year difference end up suicidal from his influence and eventually committed (which is the extreme i realize).

I have to commend you on your maturity and intelligence young lady, you are one in a million. good luck with this. i am not a fan of it, but you do have a good head on your shoulders so i suspect whatever may come of it, you will emerge more experienced whether in a good way or bad way.

Being mature and intelligent for your age is one thing, but actually experiencing things is another. At the age of 16, no matter how much you have learned, there is so much that you have yet to experience.

I was a very independent teenager. My parents almost always let me do what I wanted (in terms of life goals and decisions) and, even if they disagreed with me, they almost always supported me. I found that my greatest moments of personal growth and experience were between the ages of 16 - 20. I had nothing to do but try new things and learn from my mistakes... and make mistakes I did. I changed, as an individual, on a nearly daily basis. I found out who I really was.

Your boyfriend is in a different stage in his life. He has already made mistakes and, hopefully, has learned from them. He probably has a decent job. He may or may not want to start a family. He has relationships with other people who have already figured out some things about life.

My point is, is that I think you will miss out on experiences if you are with a person who has already experienced things. Don't learn second hand about how life works. Two years to wait until you are 18 will go so fast you will wonder where the time went. Don't get held back because of a relationship that you think will not lead anywhere. Go out and experience life for your self. Make stupid decisions. get your heart broken. Go for a trip across seas. Go to school and meet new friends with new ideas and new personalities.

Otherwise, your boyfriend will always be there whispering advice into your ear trying to save you from the same mistakes that he made. Trying to keep you from getting hurt or making a decision that he thinks is wrong. He may have learned what worked and what didn't work in his life, but don't let him tell you what will and will not work for your life.

Figure it out for yourself.

Well OK, here's some more fuel......

There's another thread around here title "doesn't want children"

In it, a female who doesn't give her age goes on about meeting her "soul mate"
The main issues seem to be (A) he's with someone else (B) He has kids by this other one and doesn't want more (C) he changes his mind and does want more kids (D) he goes back to the first woman (E) He decides he can't live without his "soul mate" for one hour (E) He doesn't want more kids (F) he changes his mind and wants more kids.

and so forth.....

Now, maybe it's just me, but this all sounds pretty f**ked up to me.

In my lengthy post on this I pointed out some areas in this relationship she might think to question.

However, like other times when I have posted the obvious - my remarks were completely ignored, with the general consent being to the effect of "oh honey, if you've found you're soul mate, give it time"
Crap - how does anyone know this isn't some hippy dippy 17 year old girl with a 35 year old guy.
To be honest, that what it sounded like to me.
this chick sounded really immature, especially since her last post was to the effect of "oh, he couldn't stay away from me for 1/2 an hour - everythings going to be just fine. thanks everyone!"

Some people were saying - oh, how wonderful for you!!!

spendius - speak for yourself - I care about what's going on in this thread - If this thread doesn't interest you, don't read it.

Like I said before, I don't advocate May-December romances - But I don't automatically condemn them either.

Question - Are all the other adults out there saying that they NEVER kept certain things private from even parents?
Let's not be hypocrites - Did we run to them and say - Guess what? I just smoked my first joint!

Normally - a 16 year old is not ready for the adversaties life is going to throw at her.

However some 16 year olds are ready to at least start the process of dealing with life on lifes terms.

I know 30 year olds who are still at the stage of "he didn't call me, I'm going to die"

Both are at either end of the maturity bell curve - it's improbable for a 16 year old to be mature enough to handle an adult relationship, but not impossible.

Oh - em, what it you that compared this to a 12 year old and a 19 year old? - Sorry, there is a line to be drawn.
However, come to think of it, my grandmother married at 13.

For anyone who has been around teenagers, or has been one themselves - There is something about turning 16 for a girl - she's not entirely grown up, but overnight she becomes more of a woman than she's ever been before.

Well Chai Tea, Dragon, and SheWolf - what can I say but thank you. Endless "thank you"s. I really do appreciate you all being able to offer sensible advice without being bias and/or judgemental.

SheWolf - Well, that is what I've been trying to say. He doesn't hurt me, and I'm willing to take the heat if something happens.

I think a few people mistook my saying that "it may not last forever" as saying that the relationship was pointless, worthless, and had no potential. I would have been condemned if I had said "oh! We're going to get married and have babies, and we already have the names picked out, and I'll be able to shop at Baby Gap and my kids are going to be SOOO smart," yet at the same time I am looked down upon for being rational and saying "hey, it may not work out." Make up my mind, please. I don't mean that in a snobby attitude, but in all sincerity. It's one or the other, and I'd rather take a logical approach.

I appreciate you three understanding though.

Also, JPin. I understand what you're saying. He constantly tells me, "I don't want to stunt your growth." I tell him he wont. Why? Because he won't! I am my own person, even though I do dedicate a lot of myself to the relationship. I still have my own friends, he has his. We do a lot together but we remain individuals. He is just as concerned with me being able to grow and live as you are - and we both understand the importance of that. No worries...

As a side note - Chai Tea: I would love to PM you, but my post-count is not yet high enough for them to be enabled for me. This is fine, just makes being in contact a bit more difficult. My e-mail is in my profile though; I really would like to talk to you on a more personal level. Same goes to SheWolf.

As much as I detest Spend, I do agree that this has taken a non-philosophiocal turn. Although I never intended it to be philisophical (there is another side to this form, 'Debate'), I still feel bad for hogging up the space. Hence the lessening of my comments about the relationship. I'd rather do it in private, as to not upset anymore people.

Thank you all though. By all means, keep it comming. I am still on the verge of deciding. We both spoke last night and agreed that it needed to be done, now it's just a matter of when.

If that isn't a reason to reconsider this relationship, I don't know what is.

The reason i keep going back to the issue of "tell your parents, tell your parents..." is -
What I have gotten from other posts from you Sanc, is that you are usually completely honest with your parents. You tell them about your life, your secrets amd your needs. You seem to have a very good relationship with your parents and what is bothering you about this situation ISNT the age diffrence, it is the simple fact that you allowed yourself to lie about his age from the begining and fueling it is really bitting you in the ass.
Am i right?

You're right about what is bugging me, yes. I could care less about the age difference. If when I was with him, the difference in age was apparent, then I would not be with him.

I am honest with my mother as far as not lieing (outside of this), yes. Now, telling them about my thoughts/life, that is a different story. I don't lie about them, I simply don't share them. My mother was brought up in a household where you were beat if you stepped out of line, and everyone was very quiet. Her mother didn't know how to be a mother, and it was passed on. She just doesn't like to talk. When I tried telling her about this guy (and the fake age), she merely turned on her GameBoy and started playing it. The conversation was as follows:

"Well mom?"
(her clicking buttons)
"Mom..? We need to talk. Please?"
"Yes! I got a high score."
"Mother!"
"Crystal, go away."

And so it is everytime I try to initiate a conversation. She either turns the television up louder, starts a new game on the computer, or trys to beat Mario's ass on her GameBoy. It makes it tough to share about my life, so I don't. But when she asks, I tell, honestly. Except for this.

Remember? I have to make the mistakes myself or else they're worthless to me.

I already covered this; my growth is assured.

And you dont have to. ( of course you know that! ;-) )

If this is really bothering you, to the point that you feel you NEED to tell them, find a way you mom is comfortable with.

Example-
My mom is sort of the same way. Dont talk, dont tell, and you are fine. BUT writting a letter is ok, in fact acceptable and appreciated. That way there is no confrontation and if she chooses to ignore the situation she can do so by not referring to what was said in the letter.
Does your mother have any ways like that , that work for her?

My other question is WHY is it so important now? Are you chasing shock value? What are your percieved benefits from telling her?

Merely to save her hurt in the long run. I'm afraid that if I wait until 18 rather than now, she'll feel as if it was a personal attack.

Also, yes - I usually do wind up writing her letters instead. We hardly see eachother though, and so it's a bit awkward. I usually prefer talking in person because it gets it done and over with.

Then if that is ghe goal, do it at dinner.
Just look at her and say " hey guess what....."
Dont give her the option to ignore you.
Take your goals into consideration and do it at the best time.
I read the other day on a bumper sticker this saying:

Speak your mind even if your voice shakes.

I know, I know.

Thank you.