True Religion

There was a time when I agreed with you so strongly. And I 'fell in love' with a single person of the opposite sex. I did that at least five times (with disastrous results) before I realised I had made an idol of the opposite sex, family, children, white picket fence, etc. ie, i had other gods before me.

It's tricky because society tells you that's the moral thing to do. 'Family First' is the name of the largest religious organization in the US last time i checked. You are being brainwashed from cradle to grave to worship a false God.

I believe that it is the God of the bible and not society who tells you what is the moral thing to do.

Gen 2: 24; For this reason, a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh.

Jesus answered, “Have you not read that from the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’ and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’?

Your answer doesn't respond to the question.

Not necessarily.

The thing is, God is present through people. That all members of the Church are part of the Body of Christ, that God is able to speak through humans, and that God's love can be mirrored (imperfectly) through human relationships. That God is with us.
Islam rejects this idea in basically all its scripture. There is a movie called the Perfect Stranger (There's also confusingly a horror film with a similar name without "the") where Jesus invites a married gal to a date at an Italian restaurant. His motive was not to adultery tho (btw, he looks similar to her husband in a few ways), and actually to impress on his some religious truths and convince her to stop working for the corrupt law firm that she knows is about to have issues. One of the points that Jesus makes is about Islam and how its greatest problem isn't violence. He asks her her deepest desire. She gets a funny look on her face, but when he asks more generally. She says, in general, she wants to be loved, but Jesus asks her if anyone including her husband has been able to love her perfectly. she shakes her head, and Jesus explains that there is a sort of God-shaped missing piece in all of us. But to a Muslim who only has the remote aloof version of God, not a personal relationship with God, this dream is totally hopeless.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9HYOdPPvjrc
It's when we forget about God, and just worship sex that there is a problem. Islam doesn't actually avoid this problem, but instead walks right into it, by treating women almost as sex slaves, while refusing to identify with their humanity. Yes, the romance genre of books and movies objectifies women. Yes, many people indeed have unrealistic expectations. But it is still sizably better than having 4 wives and treating all of them like either chattel or sex slaves. Islam fails first to treat God as part of humanity ( sealing Allah's irrelevance as someone too aloof to have any bearing on our lives), and then proceeds to treat women as not human.

As a song goes, "God is love, and where true love is, God himself is there."

The point being that yes, when you treat women as an object of desire, you make them a living idol against God. But when you remember that God lives in others, you worship God by correctly loving your wife/husband as they deserve.

He also said 'There is no marriage in Heaven.’
And, “He who does not hate mother, father, son, daughter, husband, wife is not worthy of me.”
How do you square these scripture?

Not say'n you can’t have a righteous marriage here, but it’s a matter of priorities.
I had them wrong.

Maybe you have done better.

So...you blindly guess that the "God" which you blindly guess exists tells humanity was the moral thing to do is.

What a crock!

You, and others who "believe" as you do, may very well be allowing an ancient tribal culture to set the standards for everyone today. And, it should be noted, that "ancient tribal culture" was a relatively unsophisticated, relatively unlearned, superstitious group of relatively barbaric people.

HUMANS should set the standards for human conduct...what we will tolerate and what we will not. And the standards should be limited to what helps society and civilization to survive.

'He' did say, 'I have come that you would have life, and have it more abundantly.'

Survival here is overrated anyway.

I was not arguing in favor of Islam but against the idea of 'falling in love with a single person of the opposite sex.'

In practice, what that often means is 'making them your God.'

Ever really think about the lyrics of most 'love songs'?

‘ You are everything to me.'
'I only have eyes for you.'
‘ Can’t live, if living is without you.'
etc.

Followed by:
'I’d rather see you dead little girl than to see you with another man.'

Romantic stuff that. Along with some great music.

And what better way to help society and civilization to survive, than to listen to and obey Jesus, who said that the entire law given by our heavenly Father, is fulfilled in these two commands, "Love God (Who is all that exists) with all your heart, with all you mind, and with all your soul, and love your neighbour as yourself and do unto them, only that which you would want done unto yourself. Do this said Jesus and you will live.

What a wonderful society that would be to live in.

Amen, looking forward to it.

I'd agree that love songs and movies do play a part in the idealization of love.

But I do agree in favor of being in love with a person of the opposite sex.

You'll notice that I didn't use the word "falling". I despise the fatalistic concept of just blindly wandering into a romance with someone. Your love must neither be an idol (but we recognize that God is the one we worship, and humans simply reflect an imperfect version of that) nor a sex object (the most important component of real love is things like trust, friendship, and commitment). Nor someone you randomly choose by "falling" for them.

My own parents are not like how you described yours. They really do care for each other, though some of the things they do for each other seem cheesy to me. But neither do they worship each other or make grand overtures. It is less about making them each other's God, and more about worshiping God together. They are partners. My dad's a priest, my mom's a teacher. They both tutor children together during the week. My mom helps my dad with some of the church stuff.

But you're right, I don't really have someone like that in my life. What I do have is a shapeshifting deity that I'm in a kind of tsundere love with. And the inability to see said deity most days.

Everyday I give thanks to my God for giving to me my wonderful wife of 58 years, Who cares for me and who bore my children through who I will continue on to the ends of time.

Family First is hardly the largest religious organization in the US, by a long ******* shot.

The Roman Catholic Church represents almost a quarter of US citizens.

Right. I should'a said 'one of'.

What’s your point.

Own your words bulma. Only the tense was different. Fall, falling, fell, it’s all the same.

:shrug:

Anyway, I think it's moot, as I don't currently have a gf or bf. Just a ghost of past relationships. It's enough that I probably will not pursue any future ones any time soon.

When you make a claim you ought to own it.

Is your point "the largest", when made about an entity means nothing? My point was actually an observation: you made a totally inaccurate claim.

The fact is I can show you more than 10 religious groups that are larger. What's your point in making a false and an easily proven false claim?

Regarding assumptions about how large a group is being a bellwether of truth: there's more prisoners in the Federal Prison systems than are members of Family First. Does that mean that convicts are closer to the truth?

Just saying. If the true/falseness of your statement means nothing, your whole statement means nothing.

I've never heard of Family First. That's how ******* big it is.

There's a bunch of non major brand churches in the South that use this "program" to sell workbooks, books, films, videos, t-shirts, Bibles and make moolahlooo from it. Those Gulf Stream executive jets don't just buy themselves. Poor suckers of limited education have to be sheared.

I'm coming from a totally different place. Britain is one of the least religious countries in the World.

I know of a couple of churches in Southampton that have been repurposed as Gurdwaras, another that is a nightclub come community centre and another has half turned over to the council.

There are some very healthy Afro Caribbean churches, and Catholic Church attendance has shot up due to immigration from Eastern Europe, but the number on "indigenous" white English churchgoers has dropped considerably.

Quite a few people still claim to be nominally Christian although they don't go to church.

There is group called The Sunday Assembly or something like that for people who no longer believe but miss all the "good" things about church. They listen to talks on rationalism and sing "cool" songs like "We Will Rock You."

I think that sounds awful. The only good thing about going to church I remember was leaving. And a load of middle class white people singing Queen numbers makes we want to vomit.

Having said that I have my own communal event I attend most Sundays, the car boot sale. You get to know people and it's very friendly. And it certainly beats we will rock you.