5
   

True Religion

 
 
fresco
 
  2  
Reply Sun 13 Oct, 2019 06:37 am
@HabibUrrehman,
You are clearly here as a promoter of Islam, which is perfectly understandable since you were born into it, and because of its bad press.
However, from a philosophical Pragmatist's pov, 'truth' is 'what works' at either the individual level, or at the societal level, and that assessment necessarily carries with it all the parochial cultural baggage which cannot be eliminated from our personalities.
In your case, since you chosen to accept the political and economic freedoms associated with a democracy, you need to deal with any cognitive dissonance associated with restrictive chauvinistic aspects of your religion. But any claim for 'superiority' of Islam over other belief systems will be seen as just 'your problem' .
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Oct, 2019 08:22 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

If they do not wish to be challenge and question then they should not place their faith on the open internet.


fresco wrote:

In your case, since you chosen to accept the political and economic freedoms associated with a democracy, you need to deal with any cognitive dissonance associated with restrictive chauvinistic aspects of your religion. But any claim for 'superiority' of Islam over other belief systems will be seen as just 'your problem' .


Can you see the difference Bill? Fresco has challenged the OP, you have just mocked them.
0 Replies
 
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Oct, 2019 09:36 am
@HabibUrrehman,
Maybe my question was overlooked , but I would like an answer.

You seem to base your argument that the Bible is false because Christianity claims that Jesus IS God.

Point blank now:. Do you see the error in this 'logic'?
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Oct, 2019 09:40 am
@Leadfoot,
I didn't get that at all. What I got was an understanding that it was the work of men.

Muslims believe that the Quran was revealed to the prophet, that the words themselves are divine.

Academics have long proven that that is not the case with the Bible, that it was written by men.

Whether or not these men may have been divinely inspired isn't really discussed.
HabibUrrehman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Oct, 2019 09:56 am
@vikorr,
Quote:
While the rest has some amount of debatableness attached to it - your 'logic' relied on the last part being correct. I replied to the last part, with explanation & example of things he did leave us, that could show us the way.



I agree that God has given us eyes and ears to see and listen to things around us and God has given us intellect to analyze things around us. These are definitely the tool which can lead to an absolute truth. Quran has empahsied on this in several verses. Quran invites us to reflect on God's creation around us to realize there is a creator of everything. Once we know that there is a creator for everything, we also know that we should live our lives according to the guidance given by that creator. Our intellect and our sense are the tools to find that guidance. Now I am trying to use the scientific approach of starting my argument with a hypothesis that this guidance in Quran. Let's assume at this point it is a hypothesis and I will put forward more logical proves in my future posts to support this hypothesis. I hope that sounds fair?
0 Replies
 
HabibUrrehman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Oct, 2019 10:02 am
@Leadfoot,
That is not the only one thing which is wrong in Bible. There are many more. The main reason I don't trust Bible is because it contradicts itself on every single fundamental belief in Christianity. The truth should not contradict each other. I am going to post another reply in few minutes to this thread which will have more details about why I consider Islam to be the truth.
HabibUrrehman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Oct, 2019 10:03 am
@knaivete,
Is this in support to my arguments?
0 Replies
 
HabibUrrehman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Oct, 2019 10:42 am
@HabibUrrehman,
This post is continuation of my original post. This post intends to provide some evidence for the validity of my claim that Islam is the only true religion.

Each person is born in a circumstance which is not of his own choice. The religion of his family or the ideology of the state is thrust upon him from the very beginning of his existence in this world. By the time he reaches his teens, he is usually fully brain-washed into believing that the beliefs of his particular society are the correct beliefs that everyone should have.

However, when some people mature and are exposed to other belief-systems, they begin to question the validity of their own beliefs. The seekers of truth often reach a point of confusion upon realizing that each and every religion, sect, ideology and philosophy claims to be the one and only correct way for man. Indeed, they all encourage people to do good. So, which one is right? They cannot all be right, since each claims all others are wrong.

Then how does the seeker of truth choose the right way?

God gave us all minds and intellects to enable us to make this crucial decision. It is the most important decision in the life of a human being. Upon it depends his future. Consequently, each and every one of us must examine dispassionately the evidence presented, and choose what appears to be right until further evidence arises.

Like every other religion or philosophy, Islam also claims to be the one and only true way to God. In this respect it is no different from other systems. Before I go further, I should remind that one can only determine the true path by putting aside emotions and prejudices, which often blind us to reality. Then, and only then, will we be able to use our God-given intelligence and make a rational and correct decision.

There are several arguments which may be advanced to support Islam’s claim to be the true religion of God. The following are only three of the most obvious.

The first argument is based on the divine origin of the names of the religion and the comprehensiveness of its meaning.
The second deals with the unique and uncomplicated teachings concerning the relationship between God, man, and creation.
The third argument derives from the fact that Islam is universally attainable by all men at all times.

These are the three basic components of what logic and reason dictate necessary for a religion to be considered the true religion of God.

The divine origin of the names of the religion and the comprehensiveness of its meaning:

The first thing that one should know and clearly understand about Islam, is what the word “Islam” itself means. The Arabic word “Islam” means the submission or surrender of one’s will to the only true God, known in Arabic as “Allah”. One who submits his will to God is termed in Arabic a “Muslim”.

The religion of Islam is not named after a person or a people, nor was it decided by a later generation of man, as in the case of Christianity which was named after Jesus Christ, Buddhism after Gautama Buddha, Confucianism after Confucius, Marxism after Karl Marx, Judaism after the tribe of Judah and Hinduism after the Hindus.

Islam (submission to the will of God) is the religion which was given to Adam, the first man and the first prophet of God, and it was the religion of all the prophets sent by Allah to mankind. Further, its name was chosen by God Himself, and clearly mentioned in the final scripture which He revealed to man. In that final revelation, called in Arabic the Quran, Allah states the following:

Quote:
…This day have perfected your religion for you, completed My favor upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion…(Quran 5:3)


Quote:
If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to God), never will it be accepted of him. (Quran 3:85)


Hence, Islam does not claim to be a new religion brought by Prophet Mohammed into Arabia in the seventh century, but rather to be a re-expression in its final form of the true religion of Almighty God, Allah, as it was originally revealed to Adam and subsequent prophets.

At this point, I might comment briefly on two other religions that claim to be the true path.

Nowhere in the Bible will you find God revealing to Prophet Moses’ people or their descendants that their religion is called Judaism, or to the followers of Christ that their religion is called Christianity. In other words, the names “Judaism” and “Christianity” had no divine origin or approval. It was not until long after his departure that the name Christianity was given to Jesus’ religion.

What, then, was Jesus’ religion in actual fact, as distinct from its name? His religion was reflected in his teachings, which he urged his followers to accept as guiding principles in their relationship with God. In Islam, Jesus is a prophet sent by Allah, and his Arabic name is Eesaa. Like the prophets before him, he called upon the people to surrender their will to the will of God (which is what Islam stands for). For example, in the New Testament it is stated that Jesus taught his followers to pray to God as follows:

Quote:
Our father in heaven, hallowed be your name, may your will be done on earth as it is in heaven. (Luke 1 1:2/Matthew 6:9-10)


This concept was emphasized by Jesus in a number of his statements recorded in the Gospels. He taught, for example, that only those who submitted would inherit paradise.

Quote:
None of those who call me ‘Lord’ will enter the kingdom of God, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven.(Matthew 7:21)


Jesus also pointed out that he himself submitted to the will of God.

Quote:
I cannot do anything of myself. I judge as I hear and my judgment is honest because I am not seeking my own will but the will of Him who sent me. (John 5:30)


There are many reports in the Gospels which show that Jesus PBUH made it clear to his followers that he was not the one true God. For example, when speaking about the final Hour, he said:

Quote:
No-one knows about the day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, not the son, but only the Father. (Mark 13:32)


Thus Jesus, like the prophets before him and the one who came after him, taught the religion of Islam: submission to the will of the one true God.

The unique and uncomplicated teachings concerning the relationship between God, man, and creation:

Since the total submission of one’s will to God represents the essence of worship, the basic message of God’s divine religion, Islam, is the worship of God alone. It also requires the avoidance of worship directed to any person, place or thing other than God. Since everything other than God, the creator of all the things, is God’s creation, it may be said that Islam, in essence, calls man away from worship of creation and invites him to worship only his Creator. He is the only one deserving of man’s worship, because it is only by His will that prayers are answered.

Accordingly, if a man prays to a tree and his prayers are answered, it is not the tree which answers his prayers, but God, who allows the circumstances prayed for to take place. One might say, “That is obvious.” However, to tree-worshippers, it might not be so. Similarly, prayers to Jesus, Buddha, or Krishna or Saint Christopher, or Saint Jude or even to Muhammad are not answered by them, but are answered by God. Jesus did not tell his followers to worship him, but to worship God, as the Quran states:

Quote:
And behold! God will say: ‘O Jesus, the son of Mary! Did you say to men, worship me and my mother as gods besides God?’ He will say: ‘Glory to you, I could never say what I had no right (to say)... (Quran 5:116)


Nor did Jesus worship himself when he worshipped, but rather he worshipped God. And Jesus was reported in the Gospels to have said:

Quote:
It is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God and serve Him only. (Luke 4:8)


This basic principle is contained in the opening chapter of the Quran, known as Surah al--Faatihah, verse 4:

Quote:
You alone do we worship and from You alone do we seek help. (Quran 1:5)


Elsewhere, in the final book of revelation, the Quran, God also said:

Quote:
And your Lord says: ‘Call on Me and I will answer your (prayer). (Quran 40:60)


It is worth emphasizing that the basic message of Islam (namely, the worship of God alone) also proclaims that God and His creation are distinctly different entities. God is neither equal to His creation nor a part of it, nor is His creation equal to Him or a part of Him.

This might seem obvious, but man’s worship of creation instead of the Creator is to a large degree based on ignorance, or neglect, of this concept. It is the belief that the essence of God is everywhere in His creation or that His divine being is or was present in some parts of His creation, which has provided justification for the worship of God’s creation and naming it the worship of God. However, the message of Islam, as brought by the prophets of God, is to worship only God and to avoid the worship of His creation either directly or indirectly.

In the Quran God clearly states:

Quote:
For we assuredly sent amongst every people a prophet, with the command worship God and avoid false Gods… (Quran 16:36)


When idol worshippers are questioned as to why they bow down to idols created by men, the invariable reply is that they are not actually worshipping the stone image, but God, who is present within it. They claim that the stone idol is only a focal point for God’s essence and is not in itself God! One who has accepted the concept of God being present in any way within His creation will be obliged to accept this argument for idolatry. Whereas, one who understands the basic message of Islam and its implications would never agree to idolatry no matter how it is rationalized.

Those who have claimed divinity for themselves down through the ages have often based their claims on the mistaken belief that God is present in man. Taking one step further, they claim that God is more present in them than in the rest of us, and that other humans should therefore submit to them and worship them as God in person or as God concentrated within their persons. Similarly, those who have asserted the godhood of others after their deaths have found fertile ground among those who accept the false belief of God’s presence in man.

It should be abundantly clear by now that one who has grasped the basic message of Islam and its implications could never agree to worship another human being under any circumstance. God’s religion, in essence, is a clear call to the worship of the Creator and the rejection of creation-worship in any form. This is the meaning of the motto of Islam:

Quote:
“Laa Ilaaha illaa Allah” (There is no God but God)


The sincere declaration of this phrase and the acceptance of prophethood automatically bring one within the fold of Islam, and sincere belief in it guarantees one Paradise. Thus, the final Prophet of Islam, may the mercy and blessings of God be upon him is reported to have said:

Quote:
Anyone who says: ‘There is no God but God’ and dies holding that (belief) will enter paradise."


Belief in this declaration of faith requires that one submit his/her will to God in the way taught by the prophets of God. It also requires the believer to give up the worship of false gods.

There are so many sects, cults, religions, philosophies, and movements in the world, all of which claim to be the right way or the only true path of God. How can one determine which one is correct or whether, in fact, all are correct?

One method by which the answer can be found is to clear away the superficial differences in the teachings of the various claimants to the ultimate truth, and identifies the central object of worship upon which they call, directly or indirectly. False religions all have in common one basic concept with regard to God: they either claim that all men are gods, or that specific men were God, or that nature is God, or that God is a figment of man’s imagination. Thus, it may be stated that the basic message of false religion is that God may be worshipped in the form of His creation. False religions invite man to the worship of creation by calling the creation or some aspect of it God.


For example, Prophet Jesus invited his followers to worship God, but those who claim to be Jesus followers today call people to worship Jesus, claiming that he was God. Buddha was a reformer who introduced a number of humanistic principles in the religion of India. He did not claim to be God, nor did he suggest to his followers that he be an object of worship. Yet today most Buddhists who are to be found outside of India have taken him to be God and they prostrate themselves to idols made in their perception of his likeness.

By using the principle of identifying the object of worship, we can easily detect false religions and the contrived nature of their origin. As God said in the Quran:

Quote:
You do not worship besides Him but only names which you have named, you and your forefathers, for which Allah has sent down no authority: the command belongs only to Allah: He has commanded that you worship Him; that is the right religion, but most men do not understand. (Quran 12:40)


It may be argued that all religions teach good things, so why should it matter which one we follow?

The reply is that all false religions teach the greatest evil the worship of creation. Creation-worship is the greatest sin that man can commit because it contradicts the very purpose of his creation. Man was created to worship God alone as Allah has explicitly stated in the Quran:

Quote:
I have only created jinns and men, that they may worship Me.(Quran 51:56)


Consequently, the worship of creation, which is the essence of idolatry is the only unforgivable sin. One who dies in this state of idolatry, has sealed his fate in the next life. This is not an opinion, but a revealed fact stated by God in his final revelation to man:

Quote:
Verily Allah will not forgive the joining of partners with Him, but He may forgive (sins) less than that for whomsoever He wishes...(Quran 4:48, 4:116)


Islam is universally attainable by all men at all times:

Since the consequences of following a false religion are so grave, the true religion of God must have been universally understandable and universally attainable in the past, and it must continue eternally to be understandable and attainable throughout the entire world. In other words, the true religion of God cannot be confined to any one people, place, or period of time. Nor is it logical that such a religion should impose conditions that have nothing to do with the relationship of man with God, such as baptism, or belief in man as a savior, or an intermediary. Within the central principle of Islam and its definition (the surrender of one’s will to God) lie the roots of Islam’s universality. Whenever man comes to the realization that God is one and distinct from His creation, and submits himself to God, he becomes a Muslim in body and spirit and is eligible for paradise.

Consequently, anyone at any time in the most remote regions of the world can become Muslim, a follower of God’s religion, Islam, by merely rejecting the worship of creation and turning to God alone. It should be noted, however, that in order to actually submit to God’s will, one must continually choose between right and wrong. Indeed, man is endowed by God with the power not only to distinguish right from wrong but also to choose between them. These God-given powers carry with them an important responsibility, namely, that man is answerable to God for the choices he makes. It follows, then, that man should try his utmost to do good and avoid evil. These concepts are expressed in the final revelation as follows:

Quote:
Verily, those who believe (in the Quran), and those who follow the Jewish faith, and the Christians, and the Sabians – any of these who believe in Allah and the Last Day and work righteousness shall have their reward with their Lord. They will not be overcome by fear or grief. (Quran 2:62)


If, for whatever reason, they fail to accept the final message after it has been clearly explained to them, they will be in grave danger. The last Prophet said:

Quote:
Whoever among the Christians and Jews hear of me but does not affirm his belief in what I brought and dies in this state will be among the inhabitants of Hell. (Sahih Muslim Vol.1 P.91 No, 284)


The question which arises here is: How can all people be expected to believe in the one true God, given their varying backgrounds, societies and cultures?

For people to be held responsible for worshipping the one true God, they all need to have access to knowledge of Him. The final revelation teaches that all human beings have the recognition of the one true God imprinted on their souls as a part of their very nature with which they are created.

In the seventh chapter of the Quran (al-A`raaf, verses 172-173), God explained that when He created Adam, He caused all of Adam’s descendants to come into existence and He took a pledge from them saying:

Quote:
“Am I not your Lord ?"…to which they all replied:
‘Yes, we testify to it.’
God then explained why He had all of mankind bear witness that He is their creator and the only true God worthy of worship. He said:
‘That was in case you (mankind) should say on the day of Resurrection, ‘Verily we were unaware of all this.’” (Quran 7:172)


That is to say, we cannot claim on that day that we had no idea that God was our God and that no one told us that we were only supposed to worship God alone. God went on to further explain that:

Quote:
It was also in case you should say, ‘Certainly it was our ancestors who made partners (with God) and we are only their descendants; will you then destroy us for what those liars did?’ (Quran 7:173)


Thus, every child is born with a natural belief in God and an in-born inclination to worship Him alone. This in-born belief and inclination is called in Arabic the “Fitrah”.
The Prophet Muhammad reported that God said:

Quote:
I created my servants in the right religion, but devils made them go astray. (Sahih Muslim)


The Prophet Muhammad PBUH also said:
Quote:
Each child is born in a state of Fitrah. Then his parents make him a Jew, Christian or a Zoroastrian.” (Sahih al-Bukhari)


If the child were left alone, he would worship God in his own way, but all children are affected by the environment. So, just as the child submits to the physical laws, which God has imposed on nature, in the same way, his soul also submits naturally to the fact that God is his Lord and Creator. But, if his parents try to make him follow a different path, the child is not strong enough in the early stages of his life to resist or oppose the will of his parents. In such cases, the religion which the child follows, is one of custom and upbringing, and God does not hold him to account or punish him for his religion up to a certain stage of his life.

Throughout people’s lives, from childhood until the time they die, signs of the one and only true God are shown to them in all regions of the earth and in their own souls, until it becomes clear that there is only one true God (Allah). God says in the Quran:

Quote:
We will show them our signs in the furthest regions (of the earth) and in their souls, until it becomes clear to them that this is the truth… (Quran 41:53)


The following is an example of God revealing by a sign to one man the error of his idol-worship.

In the south-eastern region of the Amazon jungle in Brazil, South America, a primitive tribe erected a new hut to house their man-idol Skwatch, representing the supreme God of all creation. The following day a young man entered the hut to pay homage to the God, and while he was in prostration to what he had been taught was his Creator and Sustainer, a mangy old flea-ridden dog slunk into the hut. The young man looked up in time to see the dog lift his hind leg and pass urine on the idol. Outraged, the youth chased the dog out of the temple; but when his rage died down, he realized that the idol could not be the Lord of the Universe. God must be elsewhere, he concluded. As strange as it may seem, the dog urinating on the idol was a sign from God for that young man. This sign contained the divine message that what he was worshipping was false. It liberated him from slavishly following his traditionally learned worship of a false god. As a result, this man was given a choice: either to seek the true God or to continue in the error of his ways.

God mentions Prophet Abraham’s quest for God as an example of how those who follow His signs will be rightly guided:

Quote:
So also did we show Abraham the power and the Laws of the heavens and the earth that he might (with understanding) have certitude. When the night covered him over, he saw a star. He said: ‘This is my Lord.’ But when it set, he said: ‘I love not those that set.’
When he saw the moon rising in splendor, he said: ‘This is my Lord.’ But when the moon set, he said: ‘Unless my Lord guides me, I shall surely be among those who go astray.’
When he saw the rising sun in splendor, he said: ‘This is my Lord, this is the greatest (of all).’ But when the sun set, he said: ‘O my people! I am indeed free from your (guilt) of giving partners to God.
For me, I have set my face, firmly and truly, towards Him who created the heavens and the earth, and never shall I give partners to God. (Quran 6:75-79)


As was mentioned earlier, prophets have been sent to every nation and tribe to support man’s natural belief in God and man’s in-born inclination to worship Him, as well as to reinforce the divine truth in the daily signs revealed by God. Although much of these prophets’ teachings became distorted, portions revealing their God-inspired messages have remained untainted and have served to guide mankind in the choice between right and wrong. The influence of God-inspired messages down through the ages can be seen in the Ten Commandments of Judaism’s Torah, which were later adopted into Christianity’s teachings, as well as in the existence of laws against murder, stealing and adultery in most societies throughout the ancient and modern world. As a result of God’s signs to mankind through the ages, combined with His revelation through His prophets, all mankind has been given a chance to recognize the one only true God. Consequently, every soul will be held accountable for its belief in God and its acceptance of the true religion of God, namely Islam, which means total submission to the will of God.

The preceding presentation has demonstrated that the name of the religion of Islam expresses Islam’s most central principle, submission to God, and that the name “Islam” was chosen not by man, but by God, according to the holy scriptures of Islam. It has also been shown that Islam alone teaches the uniqueness of God and His attributes and enjoins the worship of God alone without intermediaries. Finally, due to the divinely instilled inclination of man to worship God and the signs revealed by God throughout the ages to each individual, Islam may be achieved by all men at all times.
In short, the significance of the name Islam (submission to God), Islam’s fundamental acknowledgment of the uniqueness of God, and Islam’s accessibility to all mankind at all times, convincingly support Islam’s claim that, from the beginning of time, in whatever language it was expressed, Islam alone has been, and will be, the true religion of God.

In conclusion, I ask God, the exalted, to keep us on the right path to which He has guided us, and to bestow on us His Blessings and Mercy, for He is indeed the Most Merciful. Praise be to God, the Lord of the worlds, and Peace and Blessings be on Prophet Muhammad and on all the prophets of God and their righteous followers.

This post focused more on what Islam means and why worshipping one God is so important and how Islam is continuation of the message revealed to all prophets from Adam PBUH to Noah, Abraham, Moses and Jesus (peace be upon them all). I will continue posting more logical proofs in my future posts. Feel free to comment and I will try my best to reply.
HabibUrrehman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Oct, 2019 10:54 am
@fresco,
Hello my friend,

I appreciate that you took time to read the posts in this thread and provided your feedback. I am definitely here to discuss Islam as I honestly believe it to be an absolute truth. I believe so after my years of research and study of several religions. I understand that what is truth to me may not be a truth to others but we all know that there is one absolute truth. I will give reasoning for my belief and it is for anyone to either accept or reject my reasoning. There is no compulsion in the matter of religion and everyone is free to believe is whatever they think is right. At minimum, it should help others to understand Islam and its teachings.
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Oct, 2019 11:43 am
@HabibUrrehman,
No. Only religious believers think there is 'absolute truth' and they all lay claim to their version of it ! Laughing Any 'explanation' based on that premise will fall on deaf ears.
BTW Long religious posts are rarely read by others and are basically self reinforcement exercises. Religion of all varieties tends to be heavily dependent on 'word magic' (holy books, repetition etc...). Don't make the mistake of assuming a debating forum is a convenient platform for that activity.
0 Replies
 
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Oct, 2019 11:51 am
@HabibUrrehman,
NB. I'm just watching a news item about Turkish moslems killing Kurdish moslems. ...an interesting aspect of your 'absolute truth' ! Crying or Very sad
HabibUrrehman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Oct, 2019 12:20 pm
@fresco,
Absolute truth does not change even when one does not believe in it. Fore centuries people believe that the earth was flat, it did not change the reality. Just few decades ago, static view of earth was a popular belief but that did not change the reality either.

Regarding war between Turkey and Kurdish Muslims its not the first of its kind. History is full of such fights which are not based on religious view but are purely political to gain power over others.

I will focus on the main topic of my post and for future will keep my posts small and to the point. Thanks for that advice in your previous post.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Oct, 2019 01:12 pm
@HabibUrrehman,
The ancient Greeks knew the World was round, they even calculated the circumference.
0 Replies
 
fresco
 
  2  
Reply Mon 14 Oct, 2019 01:17 pm
@HabibUrrehman,
Your 'shape of Earth' example is nothing to do with the religious concept of 'absolute truth'. Its to do with the human activity called 'science' which is about efficient prediction and control of what humans transiently see as 'aspects of their world'. Try applying your 'truth' to frontier science like 'dark matter' or 'non-locality'. Scientific descriptions have NO theoretical limit...indeed the more we 'know', the more questions we generate.
Besides the societal function of religion as a rationality for primate tribalism, and a regulator of primate sexual behaviour and pecking order, it operates at the psychological level of filling the gaps where human 'control of the world' is lacking. For theists...that's 'The Big Controller (up there)'.
But you are not going to accept any of this because of the specific conditioning you have acquired as an accident of birth, since your very concept of 'yourself' ...a concept socially acquired and maintained... requires your religion as part of its integrity.
To even read these last two paragraphs might even be impossible for you, let alone understand them. So the expected response will be 'you do not know the truth ' which of course is a circular assertion based on your lay understanding of the word 'truth'.
As for those current inter-nicene atrocities which you claim to be merely 'political', I suggest the world at large merely interprets them as indicative that Islam is no different to any other parochial self serving belief system laying claim to 'truth'. After all, army chaplains on both sides of WW2 'blessed' their troops before going to slaughter each other with 'God on their side'.

vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Oct, 2019 03:27 pm
@HabibUrrehman,
Quote:
I understand that what is truth to me may not be a truth to others but we all know that there is one absolute truth.
I very much disagree with this. I like the idea of God, but if he exists (and I am in no way certain of that), then I very much doubt he exists according to the ideology of any of the religions. I find them to be discordant with his creation in too many ways (while they are in agreement with creation in many other ways).

I do not think there is one absolute truth, though if one exists, I don't think I'll ever comprehend it.
HabibUrrehman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Oct, 2019 03:27 pm
@fresco,
Quote:
Your 'shape of Earth' example is nothing to do with the religious concept of 'absolute truth'. Its to do with the human activity called 'science' which is about efficient prediction and control of what humans transiently see as 'aspects of their world'. Try applying your 'truth' to frontier science like 'dark matter' or 'non-locality'. Scientific descriptions have NO theoretical limit...indeed the more we 'know', the more questions we generate.


It was just an example that our world view could be true for us but it is not necessary that this view is an absolute truth. By the way when Quran was revealed 1400 years ago, there was no telescope to look at the galaxies and tell the world that the universe is expanding. Quran mentioned that 1400 years ago and today we know that as an established scientific fact. So the absolute truth that the universes is expanding was mentioned in Quran even when people did not believe in it. This is just one example to the truth I am point to and I will present many more examples like these.
Islam never had problems with science, science actually flourished under Islamic rule. Just read the history.
Quote:
To even read these last two paragraphs might even be impossible for you, let alone understand them. So the expected response will be 'you do not know the truth ' which of course is a circular assertion based on your lay understanding of the word 'truth'.

I have read your post and I think I understood it very well. Thanks for an arrogant statement. It is quite possible that you are much smarter than I am but if you could not recognize your own creator, your purpose in life then you have not benefitted from the intellect God has given you.
0 Replies
 
HabibUrrehman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Oct, 2019 03:35 pm
@vikorr,
Suppose you buy latest iPhone. Do you think, the manufacturer will leave it on user to figure out how to use and how to fix common problems? If any man made device can have a user guide to make sure users use and fix those devices based on manufacturer's recommendation then what about human being who are far more complex?
vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Oct, 2019 03:45 pm
@HabibUrrehman,
Hi Habib, your question isn't particularly clear.
vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Oct, 2019 03:49 pm
@HabibUrrehman,
Habib, you earlier made a whole post that revolved around where there must be one true religion, stating:

Quote:
If we were to say that no religion in the world today is correct, then this would entail believing that God is unjust because He left us to wander about on earth in sin and transgression without showing us the right way to do things, and this is impossible for a Just God.


I replied with:

This is incorrect. He gave us:

- emotional ties to other people & the need to be parts of groups or society
- a conscience
- the ability to reason
- the ability to see the long term outcome of actions

People are able to access within themselves, the understanding of the right way to do things.

Many examples of this exist outside of religion, where people do things in the right way, not because of religion, but because:
- the see the outcomes of actions, and choose actions that have good outcomes; and/or
- they want to achieve something good in this life; and/or
- they want within themselves, to be good, for themself; and/or
- they just believe in doing things in the right way.


Your reply completely ignored this contradictory evidence against your position. So I asked you about this contradiction again…and yet you have not replied, as relates to the context. You mentionit in the long post on page 2 – but once again, not in relation to your original claim. Do you not have anything to say regarding this apparent contradiction?

Quote:
Islam (submission to the will of God) is the religion which was given to Adam


Please – religion is its ideology. Without the ideology, there is no religion, no Islam, no Christianity, no religion at all. You take a name of your religion, separate it from its ideology, then say ‘Adam followed Islam’…which ideology he did not. You later attempt to say the same thing about Jesus – which ideology of Islam he did not teach.

You attempt to say ‘they just didn’t know it was Islam’…with the strong implication it was just an incomplete form of your own Islam. Yet we both know Jesus would never have agreed to raids, nor conquest (even if his hypocritical followers later did such). You can claim such of Adam, and yet you can’t say he wouldn’t have been nonplussed by any of the religions that have sprung up.

Or from another angle – you attempt to create a strong implication that ‘Adam followed ‘the Islam I am promoting by submitting’…which he did not (there is way more to the religion of Islam than just submission). And using ‘Adam Submitted to God’ like ‘Muslims submitted to God’ is like saying ‘Christians Pray, and Muslims pray –so all Christians must be Muslims’ – you know this isn’t true. The ideology after that is different.

And it is odd is it not, that Adam, having been created by God, did not bow down X times per day, nor on a Friday, Saturday, or Sunday.

By the way, you also cannot claim the name Islam to be Holy or Divine. It is drawn out of Arabic language of the time. Like other religions, they take meanings from their own language of the time. By this reckoning, all the other languages used for religions are also divine. Your claim to differentiation is "we used a concept rather than a person or group for our name". Not actually a bad argument, but not a deal maker.

Quote:
Hence, Islam does not claim to be a new religion brought by Prophet Mohammed into Arabia in the seventh century, but rather to be a re-expression in its final form of the true religion of Almighty God, Allah, as it was originally revealed to Adam and subsequent prophets.

And Christianity claims Jesus is the son of God. That’s the thing about claims is it not. By your own standard of such things - you want more than just the claim.

Quote:
One method by which the answer can be found is to clear away the superficial differences in the teachings of the various claimants to the ultimate truth, and identifies the central object of worship upon which they call, directly or indirectly. False religions all have in common one basic concept with regard to God: they either claim that all men are gods, or that specific men were God, or that nature is God, or that God is a figment of man’s imagination. Thus, it may be stated that the basic message of false religion is that God may be worshipped in the form of His creation. False religions invite man to the worship of creation by calling the creation or some aspect of it God.
Yet another claim. You offer no proof that such are false religions. By the way, I’m not even saying you are wrong. I’m saying you offer no evidence.

Quote:
The reply is that all false religions teach the greatest evil the worship of creation. Creation-worship is the greatest sin that man can commit because it contradicts the very purpose of his creation. Man was created to worship God alone as Allah has explicitly stated in the Quran:
What makes you so sure that God created everyone to worship him, or even that he needs worship? Seems rather egotistical doesn’t it? A being of mass and infinite creation, ruler of the infinite reaches of space, father of all life…needing or even wanting one aspect of creation to worship him. Rather, is it not your need to worship that drives you to want to believe this of God?

That aside - so all those who never knew Islam practiced the greatest evil? Do you believe that Christians are followers of Satan?

Quote:
If, for whatever reason, they fail to accept the final message after it has been clearly explained to them, they will be in grave danger. The last Prophet said:
When you say clearly explained to them - do you mean like the above?
HabibUrrehman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Oct, 2019 04:00 pm
@HabibUrrehman,
I think it is time for me to dive into some evidences. Muslims believe that Quran is a living Miracle and Divine word of God.

A book, claiming Divine origin, is in effect, claiming to be a miracle. Such a claim should be easily verifiable in any age, according to the standards of that age. Muslims believe, that the Quran is the last and final revelation of God, the miracle of miracles revealed as a mercy to mankind.

Quote:
We (Allah) shall show them Our signs in the Universe and within themselves, until it becomes clear to them that this is the Truth.(Al-Quran 41:53)


Although the Quran (revealed over 1400 years ago), is not primarily a book of science, it does contain scientific facts that have only been discovered recently through the advancement of technology and scientific knowledge. Islam encourages reflection and scientific research because understanding the nature of creation enables people to further appreciate their Creator and the extent of His power and wisdom.

The Quran was revealed at a time when Science was primitive; there were no telescopes, microscopes or anything close to today’s technology. People believed that the sun orbited the earth and the sky was held up by pillars at the corners of a flat earth. Against this backdrop the Quran was revealed, containing many scientific facts on topics ranging from astronomy to biology, geology to zoology.

To keep this post short I will mention only two scientific facts found in Quran over 1400 years ago. In my subsequent posts, I will discuss many more scientific facts found in Quran.


FACT #1 – EXPANSION OF THE UNIVERSE
At a time when the science of Astronomy was still primitive, the following verse in the Quran was revealed:

Quote:
And the heaven We (Allah) constructed with strength, and indeed, We (Allah) are [its] expander. [Al-Quran 51:47]


One of the intended meanings of the above verse is that Allah is expanding the universe (i.e. heavens). Other meanings are that Allah provides for, and has power over, the universe – which are also true.

The fact that the universe is expanding (e.g. planets are moving further away from each other) was discovered in the last century. Physicist Stephen Hawking in his book ‘A Brief History of Time’ writes, “The discovery that the universe is expanding was one of the great intellectual revolutions of the twentieth century.”
The Quran alludes to the expansion of the universe even before the invention of the telescope! Probably a co-incident? May be, may be not.

FACT #2 – THE SPLITTING ASUNDER OF THE EARTH AND THE SKIES
The issue how the universe came into being has always been one of the issues that scientists wondered about and discussed most. Many theories were put forward regarding the issue throughout history; each theory was refuted in the course of time as science advanced and they were labeled as wrong. The theory that is agreed on and is widely accepted today is the Big Bang Theory. The Big Bang is a cosmological model claiming that the universe came into being 13.7 billion years ago from an excessively intense and hot point. It was first put forward in 1920's by Russian cosmologist and mathematician Alexander Friedmann and Belgian physicist Georges Lemaitre. This theory, which assumes that the universe had a beginning, was widely accepted by scientists especially by physicists because it is supported by various evidences. According to the Big Bang model, the universe was in a very intense and hot state in its first phase before it expanded. That is, the universe was all in one piece. Then, it was separated into pieces to take its current shape with a big explosion called the Big Bang. This knowledge, which scientists were able to obtain only in the 19th century, was informed by the Quran 1400 years ago.

Quote:
Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of Creation), before We clove them asunder? We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?(Al-Quran 21:30)


The word translated as "joined together" in the verse is the Arabic word "RATQ". It means fused, coherent, and inseparable. That is, this word is used in order to describe two substances that form a whole in Arabic. The verb "FATQ" used in the verse means to separate. In Arabic, this verb is used in the sense of splitting something that is adjacent and coming out by breaking something. For instance, this verb is used when a seed sprouts and comes out of the ground in Arabic.

Now, let us go back to the verse: In the verse, a situation in which two things are joined together (RATQ) is mentioned. Then, they are separated (FATQ). That is, one of them comes out by tearing the other one. When we think of the first moment of the Big Bang, we see that the whole matter of the universe was together in one substance. In other words, everything, even the skies and the earth that had not been created yet, was in the same substance, interbedded (RATQ) and inseparable. That is, they were joined together as it is stated in the verse. Then, this substance broke into pieces through a big explosion. That is, the deed that the Quran defines "as FATQ" took place.

The Quran informs us about the Big Bang Theory, which was discovered in the last century, more than 1400 years ago. Anyone who thinks impartially and justly will accept this: A human being who could not read and write cannot find this fact 1400 years ago. Can a human being have discovered a fact on his own 1400 years ago that scientists discovered only 100 years ago? Since it is impossible, there is only one alternative left: The book that mentions this fact is the book of Allah, who collected the whole realms in one substance and who created the earth, the sky and everything in them through a big bang after that. Yes, the Quran is the pre-eternal book of that Being.

Let me know your honest opinion of these two facts mentioned in Quran. I intend is to keep this post small enough so that people can read and provide feedback. I will mention two scientifically proven facts in each of my future posts in a similar fashion.
 

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