Was god choosing Jesus just; or should the Father have chosen the cross for himself?

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Was god choosing Jesus just; or should the Father have chosen the cross for himself?

1Peter 1:20 0 He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.

Chose here means Jesus being chosen to be the messiah and sacrifice to the Father. It also means the Father, --- and Judge in this case, --- deciding to demand and accept what is synonymous to a bribe.

That is an evil act to most people.

If you were the god you are to emulate, would you send your child to die or would you step up?

Should sons bury fathers or should fathers bury sons?

Regards
DL

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First, it is plain that the idea of shedding blood as a prerequisite to forgiveness and salvation is akin to the concepts of voodoo, not love. Perhaps such a story is presented in order to separate the chaff from the wheat; to see who is willing to accept the torturing of another human being in order to escape the torture intended for themselves. It is a moral test. One should walk away from such a bargaining session with such a dealer.

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@Greatest I am,

1 Reply

@Greatest I am,

The belief that god has a son is greatest lie attributed towards God.
The belief that one has to die for our sins is a trap, you and I are responsible for our own actions.

Keep scratching the surface, hope you find the truth one day Smile

1 Reply

@Glennn,

Glennn wrote:

First, it is plain that the idea of shedding blood as a prerequisite to forgiveness and salvation is akin to the concepts of voodoo, not love. Perhaps such a story is presented in order to separate the chaff from the wheat; to see who is willing to accept the torturing of another human being in order to escape the torture intended for themselves. It is a moral test. One should walk away from such a bargaining session with such a dealer.

You are showing a decent moral sense. Christians must not like you much.
I do.

Regards
DL

0 Replies

@fresco,

fresco wrote:

I am pleased that I made you uncomfortable.

I hope you are smart enough to know why, but I doubt it, if I go by your lack of a moral sense.

Regards
DL

0 Replies

@HabibUrrehman,

HabibUrrehman wrote:

The belief that god has a son is greatest lie attributed towards God.
The belief that one has to die for our sins is a trap, you and I are responsible for our own actions.

Keep scratching the surface, hope you find the truth one day

I am pleased you agree with me on this.

I am not sure what truth you think I should find or look for.

What do you think I am looking for or should seek?

Regards
DL

1 Reply

@Greatest I am,

Do you believe in God? Do you think someone did create you and you have a purpose?

2 Replies

@HabibUrrehman,

HabibUrrehman wrote:

Do you believe in God? Do you think someone did create you and you have a purpose?

Let me give you the longer answer, that will give my overall position.

Modern Gnostic Christians name our god "I am", and yes, we do mean ourselves.

You are your controller. I am mine. You represent and present whatever mind picture you have of your God or ideal human, and so do I.

The name "I Am" you might see as meaning something like, --- I think I have grown up thanks to having forced my apotheosis through Gnosis and meditation.

In Gnostic Christianity, we follow the Christian tradition that Christians have forgotten that they are to do. That is, become brethren to Jesus.

That is why some say that the only good Christian is a Gnostic Christian.

Here is the real way to salvation that Jesus taught.

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Allan Watts explain those quotes in detail.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alRNbesfXXw&feature=player_embedded

Joseph Campbell shows the same esoteric ecumenist idea in this link.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGx4IlppSgU

The bible just plainly says to put away the things of children. The supernatural and literal reading of myths.

Regards
DL

0 Replies

@HabibUrrehman,

HabibUrrehman wrote:

Do you believe in God? Do you think someone did create you and you have a purpose?

The first part I dealt with above.

I am a naturalist and Gnostic Christians hold no supernatural beliefs therefore, my mother and father created me.

As to my purpose, I would think it is what I have tried to keep doing all of my life. Learning new things and just doing what I have to to keep doing that.

A stagnating mind is hell to me. That is why I like Gnostic Christianity. We are perpetual seekers after god. God defined as the best rules and laws to live by. I see any other definition as idol worship and garbage.

Regards
DL

1 Reply

@Greatest I am,

So what you are saying is that there is no God. You are created by your mom and dad and not by God. You probably also don't believe in life hereafter, angels, death? Death probably only means end of the life and nothing more to you?

Now I don't understand how that connects with Christianity which believes in all what you don't. What is your relationship with Jesus? Do you think he is your God? Do you believe Bible is 100% truth or is it partial truth? How you know what is truth and what is not?

1 Reply

A human trying to judge God is like a Ford trying to judge Henry.

2 Replies

@HabibUrrehman,

HabibUrrehman wrote:

So what you are saying is that there is no God. You are created by your mom and dad and not by God. You probably also don't believe in life hereafter, angels, death? Death probably only means end of the life and nothing more to you?

Now I don't understand how that connects with Christianity which believes in all what you don't. What is your relationship with Jesus? Do you think he is your God? Do you believe Bible is 100% truth or is it partial truth? How you know what is truth and what is not?

My statement of not believing in the supernatural answers most of your questions.

Let me answer the rest this way.

Modern Gnostic Christians name our god "I am", and yes, we do mean ourselves.

You are your controller. I am mine. You represent and present whatever mind picture you have of your God or ideal human, and so do I.

The name "I Am" you might see as meaning something like, --- I think I have grown up thanks to having forced my apotheosis through Gnosis and meditation.

In Gnostic Christianity, we follow the Christian tradition that Christians have forgotten that they are to do. That is, become brethren to Jesus.

That is why some say that the only good Christian is a Gnostic Christian.

Here is the real way to salvation that Jesus taught.

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Allan Watts explain those quotes in detail.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alRNbesfXXw&feature=player_embedded

Joseph Campbell shows the same esoteric ecumenist idea in this link.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGx4IlppSgU

The bible just plainly says to put away the things of children. The supernatural and literal reading of myths.

Regards
DL

1 Reply

@Jewels Vern,

Jewels Vern wrote:

A human trying to judge God is like a Ford trying to judge Henry.

Yet scriptures tell you to do just that.

Seems you have yet to read your bible and that may be why you gave such a brain dead reply.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Test all things; hold fast what is good.

You not testing for good is why you idol worship a genocidal son murdering prick of a god.

Don't question or test why you follow Satan.

Regards
DL

0 Replies

@Greatest I am,

Quote:

My statement of not believing in the supernatural answers most of your questions.

No matter what fancy words you use, if you don't believe in unseen then you are not a Christian. I am sorry if this offends you but it is the truth.

Quote:

Modern Gnostic Christians name our god "I am", and yes, we do mean ourselves.

You are your controller. I am mine. You represent and present whatever mind picture you have of your God or ideal human, and so do I.

You are a god who don't know what will happen tomorrow? You are finite and have limitations and have no control even over your death. If that's how you define god then you surely is misled.

Yes as human beings we do have some control but that's called free will. We don't have absolute control. For example, your gender is not determined by you. Your height, color extra are not determined by you. Whether you will be born to rich or poor is not under your control. Your death is not under your control. That's not god, sorry to say. You can call yourself one if that makes you feel good but that will not change the reality.

Quote:

That is why some say that the only good Christian is a Gnostic Christian.

That is more of devil's invention and you are falling into the trap. As I said above, you are not a Christian.

You can't pick and choose few verses from Bible, either believe in all or reject them all. Truth should be perfect with no errors and contradictions.

1 Reply

@HabibUrrehman,

HabibUrrehman wrote:

Quote:
My statement of not believing in the supernatural answers most of your questions.

No matter what fancy words you use, if you don't believe in unseen then you are not a Christian. I am sorry if this offends you but it is the truth.

Quote:
Modern Gnostic Christians name our god "I am", and yes, we do mean ourselves.

You are your controller. I am mine. You represent and present whatever mind picture you have of your God or ideal human, and so do I.

You are a god who don't know what will happen tomorrow? You are finite and have limitations and have no control even over your death. If that's how you define god then you surely is misled.

Yes as human beings we do have some control but that's called free will. We don't have absolute control. For example, your gender is not determined by you. Your height, color extra are not determined by you. Whether you will be born to rich or poor is not under your control. Your death is not under your control. That's not god, sorry to say. You can call yourself one if that makes you feel good but that will not change the reality.

Quote:
That is why some say that the only good Christian is a Gnostic Christian.

That is more of devil's invention and you are falling into the trap. As I said above, you are not a Christian.

You can't pick and choose few verses from Bible, either believe in all or reject them all. Truth should be perfect with no errors and contradictions.

Only brain dead fools believe in a real Satan.

I also never claimed and would never claim to be an immoral Christian.

I am a Gnostic Christian.

Regards
DL

1 Reply

@Greatest I am,

You probably never read mention of Stan/Devil in the Bible or else you would not say this. May be read story of Adam and Eve again to find out what happened to Satan and if he exists or not?

1 Reply

@Jewels Vern,

Quote:

A human trying to judge God is like a Ford trying to judge Henry.

Well if you want to go that route, then just as Henry can be judged by the quality of the Ford, the god can be judged by the quality of the human.

0 Replies

@HabibUrrehman,

HabibUrrehman wrote:

You probably never read mention of Stan/Devil in the Bible or else you would not say this. May be read story of Adam and Eve again to find out what happened to Satan and if he exists or not?

Only brain dead literalist fools will believe in a real Satan.

I hope you can see how intelligent the ancients were as compared to the mental trash that modern preachers and theists are using with the literal reading of myths.

https://bigthink.com/videos/what-is-god-2-2

Further.
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/03132009/watch.html

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

Please listen as to what is said about the literal reading of myths.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

This is how early Gnostic Christians view the transition from reading myths properly to destructive literal reading and idol worship.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR02ciandvg&feature=BFa&list=PLCBF574D

Regards
DL

1 Reply

@Greatest I am,

Really is that the answer? So pretty much you are rejecting entire Bible and you call yourself Christian or Agnostic Christian? Seems more agnostic to me...

1 Reply

Was god choosing Jesus just; or should the Father have chosen the cross for himself?

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