french sense of humour ;)

Heh heh, Dixie Chicks...I admire them for voicing their beliefs, but when you are an American country band, you gotta know that anti-war sentiments are not going to be taken lightly by yer trailer trash audience...there were record burnings and everything, a good ole fashioned American-style turnaround on the people they claim to love....

Now, in light of all this, and maybe this is the worst part...the Dixie Chicks publicly apologized for their statement, to most likely save their sagging careers...now who sounds like a hypocrite?

CodeBorg, the French have great wine, and some decent food, and plenty of great scenery, but quite frankly, the beer pretty much sucks, except maybe in those regions where there was a German influence....better beer AND eats in Belgium, IMHO. Also, they cherish their "heritage" so much, they put the kaibosh on supporting Quebec in their move for separation from Canada. They hate everyone, including their own progeny it seems. Personally, I think they are just a 3rd rate power that prefers to join the winning side rather than truly stand up for their beliefs.

No offense to the French, btw, they are entitled to their opinon and the pretzel thing was pretty funny....

Hmmm....

Dixie Chicks don't make the news here - though no one has been criticised too much for continuing to oppose the war now it's started, as they opposed it in principle. Some have changed perspective, saying that they don't like the policy but as it has been voted on by our House of Commons, who we have chosen to represent us, we should support the decision and our troops now they're involved.

French beer can be good (esp. smaller breweries) but, as cav says, it tend to come from the NE part, next to Germany (and formerly part of Germany at certain times). IMHO there is no better wine than certain French wines!

Britain has centuries more bad blood with France than even with Germany...but then close neighbours often fight!

The French are very proud and very idealistic. Sometimes they forget when serious action is required. Sometimes the Americans avoid seeing the complexity of the issue because they are too eager to act decisively.

This stand-off is just one element of that contrast.

The French are no more a 3rd rate power than the British - and you better not go down that road! The only 1st rate "power" is the USA at the moment. Sometimes others hate those who are always dominant. Some of you will hate the Yankees. Some of us hate Manchester United. All the other sides in the 6 nations Rugby tournament want to see England lose...it's normal to want the strongest to be weakened.

I don't hate the French and I don't hate the Americans (I'm 1/8th French myself and have lots of friends the other side of the water in both directions - all of whom I personally respect).

Vive la difference! Long live freedom to argue!

well said, kitchenpete. it is indeed unreasonable and rash to hate the whole nations for the acts of their governments. and boycotts and sanctions were controversial from the very start. are they beneficial? are they harmful to the innocent? experts cannot agree. they achieved nothing for years in south africa, except for hunger and malnutrition, and it did not cause the iraqi regime to ease up or make any concessions. but sometimes there seems to be no other resort. depends on the case and alternatives for conflict resolution at hand.

I have an elderly friend who escaped from Nazi Germany with her brother. She still talks with fondness of their Christian neighbors who agreed to take her family's belongings (they were quite wealthy) and store them in thier basement.
When her brother went back several years later, the Christian family were still living in the house, but it had been bombed, so they lived mostly in the basement. All my friend's family belongings had been boxed and were ready to be picked up even though this family could have used the money from those things for basic necessities.

My point is that entire populations should not be blamed for the actions of an evil government. Some individuals were guilty and there are still neo-nazis in Germany, but that doesn't make all Germans guilty.

There are many white supremist groups in this country who have killed and robbed and terrorized. Does this make all Americans guilty of racism? Perhaps we are if we don't all contribute to the Southern Poverty Education Fund.

Some German companies made money helping Nazi Germany and contine to be successful. The same is true of many American companies who built products that were used in Germany during the war.

Long memories and burning resentments of past atrocities are responsible for terrible wars and so much devastation in the world. I'm sure Dagmaraka has personal experience of that.

We need to learn to look beyond those painful memories and do everything we can to work together for the good of the planet, not just for our own countries, or we will continue killing each other.
IMHO.

Diane, that's a wonderful story!

Indeed. Yet I don't hate all communists either ;-)

I don't either, Dagmaraka. In many ways, communism is understandable, considering that Russians lived under tsars for so long. To anyone with any idealism, communism must have seemed like the perfect answer.

God, I love this discussion board! All I say is "beer" and we have great thoughts pouring from so many considerate intelligent minds! What an oasis!

I myself love the French with a passion (although I don't know very much about them) just because they are French. I don't know wine, cheese and penny loafers very much, but I do know pretzels. And when I bicycled through their country I found them to be very friendly, talkative, wonderful people with opinions, cares, joys, and a great appreciation for LIFE (immaterial from material materials). People care.

That they wish to avert war is a great virtue.
That they wish to partake in the rebuilding of a society is constructive.
That they preserve their own culture is a gift.

We could all use a friend who is that strong, opinionated, creative,
appreciative, goofy and civilized. And one who pokes us when we
behave like jerks.

A toast! To bad beer, struggle, and passion!


PS -- If you haven't read of Americans who think well of others, try this good article about the French. [hic!]

i can see that. it is very appealing in theory. but the attempt to create a 'new man' failed so miserably. the credo within the dying communist state was: 'if you don't steal, you steal from your family', only one of many. now there's the new man that the communism has produced! not quite what was intended, haha.

Yes, it was a terrible failure; my theory being that true Marxism requires the same qualities as anarchism and those qualities are lacking in human nature. Too bad.

Code Borg, I'll toast the French with some champagne, the only alcoholic beverage I drink.

Heh heh, despite my annoyance with the French and their politics, I really don't hate them, or anyone else. KP put things quite well, I think. Incidentally, Manchester is cool by me, btw, but I watch way too much Corination St.